7 ms·

I am surprised people are willing to put up with this sort inhumane treatment. A person I know has been waiting for 16+ years for his green card. They've very r

I am surprised people are willing to put up with this sort inhumane treatment. A person I know has been waiting for 16+ years for his green card. They've very rarely traveled out of the USA together as a family because they were afraid they might be a problem getting back in. The people I know are not even desperate migrants where this sort of treatment is still better than the lives they are living - yet they still normalise it. When I ask them why they tolerate such draconian conditions, I get answers such as "well, we didn't realise it would take this long" or "this doesn't happen to people like us".

aikinai 11mo ago
Supply and demand. The US is by far the top place people want to be, so however poorly they treat applicants, there will still be an infinite supply of people willing to put up with it.
- sam-cop-vimes 11mo ago
  I get that, but the kind of white collar workers who are putting up with this have options all over the world. Why would even such people put up with it?
  - aikinai 11mo ago
    Professional opportunity or quality of life, most likely. Nowhere else even comes close to the US in terms of professional and economic opportunity.
    - 4gotunameagain 11mo ago
      In terms of professional and economic opportunity, sure, but in terms of quality of life half of the European countries eclipse the US.
      - deleted 11mo ago
        [deleted]
      - cherryteastain 11mo ago
        Countries like Denmark, Switzerland or Netherlands indeed offer very good quality of life but the language barrier is substantial. Tons of people know English as a second language and almost no one knows, say, Danish as a second language.
        4gotunameagain 11mo ago
        Oh I didn't mean americans should come over. Please don't. Deal with your mess instead of extending it here.
        JuniperMesos 11mo ago
        > Deal with your mess instead of extending it here. This is exactly the justification for all the anti-immigration policies, the idea that immigrants from foreign countries have extended the mess that is in their home countries to the United States, and the only way to prevent it is to prevent those people from having the right to settle permanently in the United States.
        mlrtime 11mo ago
        Oh I didn't mean [Mexicans] should come over. Please don't. Deal with your mess instead of extending it here [US].
        mlrtime 11mo ago
        And there is the fact that countries like Denmark are tightening up immigration even tighter than the US. The EU countries that tried a more open boarder quickly realized how it can spiral out of control.
        deleted 11mo ago
        [deleted]
      - sys_64738 11mo ago
  - kortilla 11mo ago
    Depends on the work? Software salaries in the US are so far beyond anywhere else in the world that it puts you in a significantly different lifestyle. One year of a kafkaesque process to make $500k/year instead of 70k Euros is a trade worth it to tons of people to make the go at it. And that’s for stable corporate jobs, it gets even more favorable if you want to start a company.
  - GolfPopper 11mo ago
    The delusion that they're a temporarily embarrassed millionaire is not limited to American citizens.
    - Gibbon1 11mo ago
      Once you see it one sees low grade to high grade affinity fraud everywhere. People would rather align with wealth and power and pretend they are part of the club than align with the other schmucks like them.
  - Yizahi 11mo ago
    a) money make up for a lot of systemic deficiencies, adding here taxes, which are insanely high all across EU, salaries are several times lower here too b) English language as a first class language. For example, while there are many job offers promising English only requirement, in reality a significant part of these unofficially presume you will speak local language at proficient level in the team, and hiring process filters for that. c) EU countries have a lot of their own bureaucracy hell regarding immigration. For example I'm now on a Blue Card status in EU, that's a high skilled immigration program. I need to renew my card for the next 1 to 3 year period, I've started process in Sep 2025 and best case scenario will get card around next winter 26/27. Worst case scenario, add half a year more to that. If I want to get a passport, originally I had to dance through these hoops for at minimum 9 years. Just recently it increased to 11 year. And right now there is a law proposal in the parliament, increasing this term to minimum 17 years (among other inane requirements). If that passes, they may increase it even more in the future, making all immigrants live on the flimsy status for decades. USA at least makes the process faster, even if unpredictable. tl;dr - EU is nice, just like USA is nice in it's own way, but in both countries immigrants have to put up with a lot of legal BS.
  - queenkjuul 11mo ago
    Propaganda
  - 627467 11mo ago
    I think you answer your own question: > "this doesn't happen to people like us". Up until now wasn't this the case that generally white collar workers would only face issues in very narrow set of conditions? And even now, are all irregular migrants experience the same worsening prospects?
- LorenPechtel 11mo ago
  And sometimes there isn't really a choice. Life threw us together, our hearts had their own ideas about the situation. The only choices were put up with the process or separate.
MandieD 11mo ago
Everyone back home in Texas wondered why my husband (a German) wouldn’t “let” us move to the US. He was open to doing at least a few years over there; he’d enjoyed his exchange during university back in the 90s. I was the one who said no, having seen the hell my colleagues married to Germans and other western Europeans were going through with US immigration. Instead, I got a German residence permit without much fuss, and converted to a permanent one (Green Card equivalent) at a renewal when the clerk pointed out I was past the minimum time needed on my renewable one and encouraged me to apply. Everyone complains about German bureaucracy, and I did have to bring in a fair bit of paperwork, but they do a prep appointment where they give you a list of exactly what they want to see from you specifically when you file your application.
- sam-cop-vimes 11mo ago
  Makes sense - and I have interacted with bureaucracy in a lot of countries. The FUD that US immigration seem to install in immigrants seems uncalled for.
  - array_key_first 11mo ago
    It's certainly less FUD now that we have secret police and a psuedo-monarch dedicated to ruining the lives of immigrants. If I were an immigrant, or someone wanting to immigrate to the US, I would consider it carefully.
  - LorenPechtel 11mo ago
    The Republicans have never liked immigrants. They have succeeded in keeping things underfunded so the bureaucracy stretches out far longer than needed in a sane system.
    - MandieD 11mo ago
      And underfunded to the point of delaying things despite fees for comparable activities being far more expensive on the US side than in Germany, and even before this year.
- 11mo ago
sys_64738 11mo ago
Despite the challenges with current government, the USA is still the best country in the world for most things. Some will disagree but they are in a minority. People who have never been or lived in the USA likely won't understand why this is. I stopped bothering to explain it to others a long time ago as their views are mostly influenced by biased media in their home country.
- netsharc 11mo ago
  > their views are mostly influenced by biased media in their home country. Mirror, mirror on the wall... (As you've already concluded, don't bother...)
  - sometimes_all 11mo ago
    Your parent comment is probably satire, but given current situations, one can never be sure.
    - sys_64738 11mo ago
      No satire intended. It's more a simple reflection on reality.
- mlrtime 11mo ago
  Replying as this is not satire, it is 100% true. Social media amplifies this, news regurgitates it and we fight online while advertisers get their clicks.
- archagon 11mo ago
  As a US citizen with plenty of travel experience, there are actually scant few things the USA is best at, especially when it comes to quality of life for ordinary people. US residents who rarely leave their borders likely won't understand why this is.

aikinai 11mo ago

Supply and demand. The US is by far the top place people want to be, so however poorly they treat applicants, there will still be an infinite supply of people willing to put up with it.

sam-cop-vimes 11mo ago
I get that, but the kind of white collar workers who are putting up with this have options all over the world. Why would even such people put up with it?
- aikinai 11mo ago
  Professional opportunity or quality of life, most likely. Nowhere else even comes close to the US in terms of professional and economic opportunity.
  - 4gotunameagain 11mo ago
    In terms of professional and economic opportunity, sure, but in terms of quality of life half of the European countries eclipse the US.
    - deleted 11mo ago
      [deleted]
    - cherryteastain 11mo ago
      Countries like Denmark, Switzerland or Netherlands indeed offer very good quality of life but the language barrier is substantial. Tons of people know English as a second language and almost no one knows, say, Danish as a second language.
      - 4gotunameagain 11mo ago
        Oh I didn't mean americans should come over. Please don't. Deal with your mess instead of extending it here.
        JuniperMesos 11mo ago
        > Deal with your mess instead of extending it here. This is exactly the justification for all the anti-immigration policies, the idea that immigrants from foreign countries have extended the mess that is in their home countries to the United States, and the only way to prevent it is to prevent those people from having the right to settle permanently in the United States.
        mlrtime 11mo ago
        Oh I didn't mean [Mexicans] should come over. Please don't. Deal with your mess instead of extending it here [US].
      - mlrtime 11mo ago
        And there is the fact that countries like Denmark are tightening up immigration even tighter than the US. The EU countries that tried a more open boarder quickly realized how it can spiral out of control.
      - deleted 11mo ago
        [deleted]
    - sys_64738 11mo ago
- kortilla 11mo ago
  Depends on the work? Software salaries in the US are so far beyond anywhere else in the world that it puts you in a significantly different lifestyle. One year of a kafkaesque process to make $500k/year instead of 70k Euros is a trade worth it to tons of people to make the go at it. And that’s for stable corporate jobs, it gets even more favorable if you want to start a company.
- GolfPopper 11mo ago
  The delusion that they're a temporarily embarrassed millionaire is not limited to American citizens.
  - Gibbon1 11mo ago
    Once you see it one sees low grade to high grade affinity fraud everywhere. People would rather align with wealth and power and pretend they are part of the club than align with the other schmucks like them.
- Yizahi 11mo ago
  a) money make up for a lot of systemic deficiencies, adding here taxes, which are insanely high all across EU, salaries are several times lower here too b) English language as a first class language. For example, while there are many job offers promising English only requirement, in reality a significant part of these unofficially presume you will speak local language at proficient level in the team, and hiring process filters for that. c) EU countries have a lot of their own bureaucracy hell regarding immigration. For example I'm now on a Blue Card status in EU, that's a high skilled immigration program. I need to renew my card for the next 1 to 3 year period, I've started process in Sep 2025 and best case scenario will get card around next winter 26/27. Worst case scenario, add half a year more to that. If I want to get a passport, originally I had to dance through these hoops for at minimum 9 years. Just recently it increased to 11 year. And right now there is a law proposal in the parliament, increasing this term to minimum 17 years (among other inane requirements). If that passes, they may increase it even more in the future, making all immigrants live on the flimsy status for decades. USA at least makes the process faster, even if unpredictable. tl;dr - EU is nice, just like USA is nice in it's own way, but in both countries immigrants have to put up with a lot of legal BS.
- queenkjuul 11mo ago
  Propaganda
- 627467 11mo ago
  I think you answer your own question: > "this doesn't happen to people like us". Up until now wasn't this the case that generally white collar workers would only face issues in very narrow set of conditions? And even now, are all irregular migrants experience the same worsening prospects?
LorenPechtel 11mo ago
And sometimes there isn't really a choice. Life threw us together, our hearts had their own ideas about the situation. The only choices were put up with the process or separate.

MandieD 11mo ago

Everyone back home in Texas wondered why my husband (a German) wouldn’t “let” us move to the US. He was open to doing at least a few years over there; he’d enjoyed his exchange during university back in the 90s. I was the one who said no, having seen the hell my colleagues married to Germans and other western Europeans were going through with US immigration. Instead, I got a German residence permit without much fuss, and converted to a permanent one (Green Card equivalent) at a renewal when the clerk pointed out I was past the minimum time needed on my renewable one and encouraged me to apply. Everyone complains about German bureaucracy, and I did have to bring in a fair bit of paperwork, but they do a prep appointment where they give you a list of exactly what they want to see from you specifically when you file your application.

sam-cop-vimes 11mo ago
Makes sense - and I have interacted with bureaucracy in a lot of countries. The FUD that US immigration seem to install in immigrants seems uncalled for.
- array_key_first 11mo ago
  It's certainly less FUD now that we have secret police and a psuedo-monarch dedicated to ruining the lives of immigrants. If I were an immigrant, or someone wanting to immigrate to the US, I would consider it carefully.
- LorenPechtel 11mo ago
  The Republicans have never liked immigrants. They have succeeded in keeping things underfunded so the bureaucracy stretches out far longer than needed in a sane system.
  - MandieD 11mo ago
    And underfunded to the point of delaying things despite fees for comparable activities being far more expensive on the US side than in Germany, and even before this year.
11mo ago

sys_64738 11mo ago

Despite the challenges with current government, the USA is still the best country in the world for most things. Some will disagree but they are in a minority. People who have never been or lived in the USA likely won't understand why this is. I stopped bothering to explain it to others a long time ago as their views are mostly influenced by biased media in their home country.

netsharc 11mo ago
> their views are mostly influenced by biased media in their home country. Mirror, mirror on the wall... (As you've already concluded, don't bother...)
- sometimes_all 11mo ago
  Your parent comment is probably satire, but given current situations, one can never be sure.
  - sys_64738 11mo ago
    No satire intended. It's more a simple reflection on reality.
mlrtime 11mo ago
Replying as this is not satire, it is 100% true. Social media amplifies this, news regurgitates it and we fight online while advertisers get their clicks.
archagon 11mo ago
As a US citizen with plenty of travel experience, there are actually scant few things the USA is best at, especially when it comes to quality of life for ordinary people. US residents who rarely leave their borders likely won't understand why this is.