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> USB-C is a worse mechanical connector for a device plugged in thousands of times over its lifetime. USB-C connectors are usually rated for 10k cycles. Do you

by KK7NIL 11mo ago

> USB-C is a worse mechanical connector for a device plugged in thousands of times over its lifetime. USB-C connectors are usually rated for 10k cycles. Do you have any evidence that lighting connectors are rated for more cycles than that? > The female port of a USB-C connector has a relatively fragile center blade. Lightning's layout was the opposite which makes it more robust and easier to clean. This is very weak a priori arguing. I could just as well argue that USB-C has the center blade shielded instead of exposed and so is more durable. Unless you have some empirical evidence on this I don't see a strong argument for better durability from either connector.

jdiff 11mo ago
My Pixel 8 certainly hasn't gone through 10k cycles and it barely holds on to any USB-C connector I put inside it. They all fall out even when laying still on a flat surface. There's always outliers, of course, but I had this issue with USB Micro-B on at least one other device and never saw it with a Lightning connector.
- nl 11mo ago
  My lightning connector on my iPhone 12 is completely unreliable - I need to twist the phone against the cable to get it to change. Fortunately MagSafe works fine!
  - stouset 11mo ago
    This is probably lint buildup. You can scrape it out with any thin and stiff object like a safety pin. A small amount of lint gets into the hole. You pack it in when you plug in the cable. Repeat a thousand times and now you have a stiff “plug” of lint that prevents the connector from fully entering your device.
- bashkiddie 11mo ago
  Your Pixel 8 could be about two years old. The connector performed way under spec and you should send it in for repair (assuming your are in a country with a 2 year warranty period)
  - jdiff 11mo ago
    Unfortunately we're nearing the anniversary of the warranty's expiration.
- vel0city 11mo ago
  I find it's often lint in the USB-C port. Cleaning it out with a non-conductive tool like a toothpick or a dry toothbrush usually solves it for me when that happenens.
- cyberax 11mo ago
  I've had dozens of devices with USB-C. I've yet to have even a single one that had any problems with them. To be fair, I'm using iPhones mostly for app testing, so I also had very few issues with them. What do you guys all do with your devices?!?
yearolinuxdsktp 11mo ago
The 10K cycle insertion rating for USB-C is an idealized metric that does not include lateral force, torque, device movement, or real-world wear patterns. These non-axial forces are a known cause of USB-C port failures and are explicitly not accounted for in the standard 10k-cycle durability claim. USB-C center tongue female design means that the port will break before the cable. With lightning, the cable plug takes all the stress. Apple doesn’t publish insertion cycles rating for Lightning connectors, so it’s impossible to provide empirical evidence of that. In my personal experience, I’ve had two USB-C ports go bad on two MacBooks. I’ve yet to own a USB-C-charging phone, but I’ve never had a Lightning port fail.
- KK7NIL 11mo ago
  > These non-axial forces are a known cause of USB-C port failures and are explicitly not accounted for in the standard 10k-cycle durability claim. I agree and that's par for the course for any standard, they have to limit the requirements to something that is economically manufacutrable and testable. Meanwhile, lightning connectors have no public standard to speak of so this is a mute point. > USB-C center tongue female design means that the port will break before the cable. With lightning, the cable plug takes all the stress. This is another a priori armchair expert argument which I just put very little weight on without data to back it up. > Apple doesn’t publish insertion cycles rating for Lightning connectors, so it’s impossible to provide empirical evidence of that. That conclusion does not follow. We can still obtain empirical evidence through direct testing without Apple publishing anything. > In my personal experience, I’ve had two USB-C ports go bad on two MacBooks. I’ve yet to own a USB-C-charging phone, but I’ve never had a Lightning port fail. That's fair, everyone has different anecdotal experiences as a foundation for their opinion here. The problem is that anecdotal data is just not very informative to others, that's all.
  - BenjiWiebe 11mo ago
    *moot point
- cesarb 11mo ago
  > USB-C center tongue female design means that the port will break before the cable. With lightning, the cable plug takes all the stress. Are you sure it's the center tongue which takes all the stress, and not the round shell? AFAIK, USB-C is designed so that the cable breaks before the port, because the parts which wear the most with use (the contact and retention springs) are in the cable, not on the device.
stouset 11mo ago
My own empirical evidence suggests that USB-C ports stop holding tightly onto cables after light to moderate use. To be fair, Lightning ports were prone to being clogged with lint, but that was fixable in twenty seconds with a safety pin.
- bdangubic 11mo ago
  exactly!
- f33d5173 11mo ago
  My experience is that plugs from the same manufacturer as the device tend to keep holding tightly, but mixing makers is unreliable. Apple plugs in particular tend to slide out of my samsung phone really easily. I guess whoever speced usbc didn't bother with the details of how it would stay in, and every manufacturer figured out their own solution.
anamax 11mo ago
> This is very weak a priori arguing. I could just as well argue that USB-C has the center blade shielded instead of exposed and so is more durable. The unshielded Lightning center blade is on a $5 connector. If it breaks, I'm out $5 and it's reasonable to have spares. The shielded USB-C center blade is part of an expensive device. If it breaks....
- Dylan16807 11mo ago
  Have you ever seen either kind of port break on the inside? This speculation is just as weak without any evidence.
  - tpmoney 11mo ago
    I did wind up replacing the USB C ports on a 4 year old computer recently because it was dodgy as hell. When i got it under the microscope it the longer bus power pin contacts (and one or two of the others) had been badly worn/squished/stretched in a way that I guess was causing them to bridge to other pins. I assume some USB-C cable had some gunk in the connector which was hard enough to damage the contacts on the center blade, and the user didn't notice (because how often do you look into the end of your USB-C cable?). It probably presented as a cable that wasn't seating right or didn't go all the way in and whatever was inside probably fell out when it was removed and they tried again. And for what it's worth, damage to the center blade does seem to be a common failure mode for USB-C and mini-usb connectors. Less frequent for something like HDMI but it does seem to happen from time to time. Lightning never felt like it locked in as securely as USB connectors do, but at the same time, every time I saw a damaged lightning connector it was always on the male (and therefore usually cheaper accessory) side.
  - klausa 11mo ago
    I've had multiple USB-C chargers broken like this. Now, admittedly, "being yanked by a robot vacuum and falling on the ground" is outside the design parameters for a port; but I absolutely had USB-C ports fail in a way that Lightning would have not. (Not the person you're replying to, but also a "Lightning was a better physical connector than USB-C" weirdo.)

by KK7NIL 11mo ago

jdiff 11mo ago

My Pixel 8 certainly hasn't gone through 10k cycles and it barely holds on to any USB-C connector I put inside it. They all fall out even when laying still on a flat surface. There's always outliers, of course, but I had this issue with USB Micro-B on at least one other device and never saw it with a Lightning connector.

nl 11mo ago
My lightning connector on my iPhone 12 is completely unreliable - I need to twist the phone against the cable to get it to change. Fortunately MagSafe works fine!
- stouset 11mo ago
  This is probably lint buildup. You can scrape it out with any thin and stiff object like a safety pin. A small amount of lint gets into the hole. You pack it in when you plug in the cable. Repeat a thousand times and now you have a stiff “plug” of lint that prevents the connector from fully entering your device.
bashkiddie 11mo ago
Your Pixel 8 could be about two years old. The connector performed way under spec and you should send it in for repair (assuming your are in a country with a 2 year warranty period)
- jdiff 11mo ago
  Unfortunately we're nearing the anniversary of the warranty's expiration.
vel0city 11mo ago
I find it's often lint in the USB-C port. Cleaning it out with a non-conductive tool like a toothpick or a dry toothbrush usually solves it for me when that happenens.
cyberax 11mo ago
I've had dozens of devices with USB-C. I've yet to have even a single one that had any problems with them. To be fair, I'm using iPhones mostly for app testing, so I also had very few issues with them. What do you guys all do with your devices?!?

yearolinuxdsktp 11mo ago

The 10K cycle insertion rating for USB-C is an idealized metric that does not include lateral force, torque, device movement, or real-world wear patterns. These non-axial forces are a known cause of USB-C port failures and are explicitly not accounted for in the standard 10k-cycle durability claim. USB-C center tongue female design means that the port will break before the cable. With lightning, the cable plug takes all the stress. Apple doesn’t publish insertion cycles rating for Lightning connectors, so it’s impossible to provide empirical evidence of that. In my personal experience, I’ve had two USB-C ports go bad on two MacBooks. I’ve yet to own a USB-C-charging phone, but I’ve never had a Lightning port fail.

KK7NIL 11mo ago
> These non-axial forces are a known cause of USB-C port failures and are explicitly not accounted for in the standard 10k-cycle durability claim. I agree and that's par for the course for any standard, they have to limit the requirements to something that is economically manufacutrable and testable. Meanwhile, lightning connectors have no public standard to speak of so this is a mute point. > USB-C center tongue female design means that the port will break before the cable. With lightning, the cable plug takes all the stress. This is another a priori armchair expert argument which I just put very little weight on without data to back it up. > Apple doesn’t publish insertion cycles rating for Lightning connectors, so it’s impossible to provide empirical evidence of that. That conclusion does not follow. We can still obtain empirical evidence through direct testing without Apple publishing anything. > In my personal experience, I’ve had two USB-C ports go bad on two MacBooks. I’ve yet to own a USB-C-charging phone, but I’ve never had a Lightning port fail. That's fair, everyone has different anecdotal experiences as a foundation for their opinion here. The problem is that anecdotal data is just not very informative to others, that's all.
- BenjiWiebe 11mo ago
  *moot point
cesarb 11mo ago
> USB-C center tongue female design means that the port will break before the cable. With lightning, the cable plug takes all the stress. Are you sure it's the center tongue which takes all the stress, and not the round shell? AFAIK, USB-C is designed so that the cable breaks before the port, because the parts which wear the most with use (the contact and retention springs) are in the cable, not on the device.

stouset 11mo ago

My own empirical evidence suggests that USB-C ports stop holding tightly onto cables after light to moderate use. To be fair, Lightning ports were prone to being clogged with lint, but that was fixable in twenty seconds with a safety pin.

bdangubic 11mo ago
exactly!
f33d5173 11mo ago
My experience is that plugs from the same manufacturer as the device tend to keep holding tightly, but mixing makers is unreliable. Apple plugs in particular tend to slide out of my samsung phone really easily. I guess whoever speced usbc didn't bother with the details of how it would stay in, and every manufacturer figured out their own solution.

anamax 11mo ago

> This is very weak a priori arguing. I could just as well argue that USB-C has the center blade shielded instead of exposed and so is more durable. The unshielded Lightning center blade is on a $5 connector. If it breaks, I'm out $5 and it's reasonable to have spares. The shielded USB-C center blade is part of an expensive device. If it breaks....

Dylan16807 11mo ago
Have you ever seen either kind of port break on the inside? This speculation is just as weak without any evidence.
- tpmoney 11mo ago
  I did wind up replacing the USB C ports on a 4 year old computer recently because it was dodgy as hell. When i got it under the microscope it the longer bus power pin contacts (and one or two of the others) had been badly worn/squished/stretched in a way that I guess was causing them to bridge to other pins. I assume some USB-C cable had some gunk in the connector which was hard enough to damage the contacts on the center blade, and the user didn't notice (because how often do you look into the end of your USB-C cable?). It probably presented as a cable that wasn't seating right or didn't go all the way in and whatever was inside probably fell out when it was removed and they tried again. And for what it's worth, damage to the center blade does seem to be a common failure mode for USB-C and mini-usb connectors. Less frequent for something like HDMI but it does seem to happen from time to time. Lightning never felt like it locked in as securely as USB connectors do, but at the same time, every time I saw a damaged lightning connector it was always on the male (and therefore usually cheaper accessory) side.
- klausa 11mo ago
  I've had multiple USB-C chargers broken like this. Now, admittedly, "being yanked by a robot vacuum and falling on the ground" is outside the design parameters for a port; but I absolutely had USB-C ports fail in a way that Lightning would have not. (Not the person you're replying to, but also a "Lightning was a better physical connector than USB-C" weirdo.)