4 ms·

I looked at Roblox recently as a nostalgia trip as I was active in the community over a decade ago when I was a kid. Genuinely insane that it's legal. Full dar

I looked at Roblox recently as a nostalgia trip as I was active in the community over a decade ago when I was a kid. Genuinely insane that it's legal. Full dark gambling patterns, insane access. I think the only reason it's not been regulated is that people haven't looked closely, but it's as if someone took the worst of gacha games and decided to base their childrens platform on it.

herbst 11mo ago
I am watching YouTubers showing these things for years to the public. Somehow people don't really seem to care at all. Roblox is really really weird.
- fragmede 11mo ago
  > Somehow people don't really seem to care at all. > I am watching YouTubers showing these things for years to the public. I'm confused, aren't "YouTubers who make videos about the problem" people? They seem to care so much that they've put money, time, and energy into creating videos illustrating the problem.
  - lenerdenator 11mo ago
    They're people, but they're not politicians or regulators with the ability to do anything about it. At a certain point, you need to have a statute that says "thou shalt not offer cybersex and online gambling to children", and you need someone with the statutory authority to charge Roblox with doing so and penalize them after due process. Either we don't have that statute, or the people with the statutory authority don't enforce things like they should.
    - socalgal2 11mo ago
      > you need someone with the statutory authority to charge Roblox Roblox didn't put up the content. Some user did. The user should be charged.
      - pixl97 11mo ago
        Cool then, to post robox content you need to have a verified ID.
      - mghackerlady 11mo ago
        Right, but it's also the responsibility of Roblox to moderate and avoid those things from happening, especially when their product is both aimed primarily at children with a userbase of mostly children
      - herbst 11mo ago
        That's where people understand Roblox wrong, they do actually manually pick and promote some of these dangerious "games" on their homepage. Which kinda makes it to "their content"
      - ndriscoll 11mo ago
        They created the system that allows it. StarCraft had user generated content, but no real gambling because the games ended within an hour or so, and no state was kept. If they want to create a platform for children gambling and facilitate the payments, yes let's figure out how to send them to prison. They're not stupid. They know all of the reasons why they have a $60B market cap. That's 2/3 of Nintendo for making a "free" game.
- Delphiza 11mo ago
  I try to comment on Roblox whenever it comes up as my daughter was pulled into a grooming pedo gang through Roblox. Read some of the comments from a HN thread from 3 years ago where HN parents insist that they are able to properly educate and self-censor. Enough people don't care (enough), despite Roblox being called out all the time by people with big platforms. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32014754#32015542 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32014754#32015542 I am shocked that Roblox has not been shut down, not by regulators, but by parents flat-out denying access. All evidence suggests that yes, it is that bad.
parasubvert 11mo ago
Tbh making Roblox illegal feels like the same moral panic that our parents had around metal music, hip-hop, and arcades. My kid plays Roblox, I prevent her from talking to others, and I police the Robux purchases. It really is a fun platform. The problem is for parents that aren't technical, or are negligent and don't know how to police it.
- s1mplicissimus 11mo ago
  I think parents (not fully unfoundedly) expect more of a playground experience from something advertised as a "game for children", so for them it follows that they should precisely not have to manually police it.
  - parasubvert 11mo ago
    what's amusing about this is that I can't think of a playground irl that a parent wouldn't manually police these days. letting kids roam entirely free is a remnant of the 80s and a bit of the 90s.
- endymion-light 11mo ago
  I mean, gambling for underage children is already illegal due to a myriad of reasons. I'd argue the psychological design of gacha games should be limited. Building patterns that get adults addicted, and advertising them specifically to children is the problem. In the same way if a casino advertised child roulette wheels, I'd want legislation to step in.
  - Ekaros 11mo ago
    I would not be against banning sale of any type of mystery or lootbox mechanics to those under age of 18. Including all digital and physical products. Yes, some things will be lost, but I think it will be for better.
    - iamnothere 11mo ago
      It’s tough to put into law because this could easily cover innocuous things like gas station gashapon machines, school raffles, and Pokemon cards. Most people aren’t going to support a ban on those. And when you try to try to target the law too narrowly, you can run into problems with loopholes or legal precedent that prevents discriminatory and targeted legislation (there is precedent around equal protection). I do think people should push for voluntary limits on gacha mechanics, because they are awful when overused and are probably harmful for a small percentage of the population that’s prone to gambling. Steam would probably be fine with rating/age gating games that heavily rely on these mechanics, the hard part is getting Google and Apple on board. Micropayments from “whales” (high spenders) provide a lot of revenue for them. I’m also not entirely sure that gacha mechanics alone are that bad, it’s when you combine them with currency (virtual or real) that it becomes a huge problem. Absent currency it’s usually a self-limiting problem, because overuse of the mechanic makes the game worse.
andrewmutz 11mo ago
Why is it a societal issue rather than just a parenting issue? Just don't let your kids play roblox. It's what I do and it works fine.
- nickthegreek 11mo ago
  As a society, we limit children's access to predatory stuff all the time - porn, alcohol, cigarettes, gambling/lottery, guns, even swear words on the public airwaves.
- endymion-light 11mo ago
  I mean, if someone was on a street corner selling child friendly cigarettes, I wouldn't call that a parenting issue. I think parenting is one aspect, but surely you see how given it's a platform that advertises itself specifically for children, in the same way as if there was a children channel on the TV telling your kids to smoke crack, maybe someone should step in
  - socalgal2 11mo ago
    Yea, we'd charge the person on the corner selling the cigarettes. We wouldn't sue the city for selling cigarettes just because it happened in the city, even if the person selling them paid their taxes (so the city made money on it).
    - Delphiza 11mo ago
      We would expect the 'city' to police the illegal cigarette sellers, and vote them out if they didn't.
- ronsor 11mo ago
  I think it becomes a societal issue when the product is specifically aimed at children as opposed to simply existing.
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]

herbst 11mo ago

I am watching YouTubers showing these things for years to the public. Somehow people don't really seem to care at all. Roblox is really really weird.

fragmede 11mo ago
> Somehow people don't really seem to care at all. > I am watching YouTubers showing these things for years to the public. I'm confused, aren't "YouTubers who make videos about the problem" people? They seem to care so much that they've put money, time, and energy into creating videos illustrating the problem.
- lenerdenator 11mo ago
  They're people, but they're not politicians or regulators with the ability to do anything about it. At a certain point, you need to have a statute that says "thou shalt not offer cybersex and online gambling to children", and you need someone with the statutory authority to charge Roblox with doing so and penalize them after due process. Either we don't have that statute, or the people with the statutory authority don't enforce things like they should.
  - socalgal2 11mo ago
    > you need someone with the statutory authority to charge Roblox Roblox didn't put up the content. Some user did. The user should be charged.
    - pixl97 11mo ago
      Cool then, to post robox content you need to have a verified ID.
    - mghackerlady 11mo ago
      Right, but it's also the responsibility of Roblox to moderate and avoid those things from happening, especially when their product is both aimed primarily at children with a userbase of mostly children
    - herbst 11mo ago
      That's where people understand Roblox wrong, they do actually manually pick and promote some of these dangerious "games" on their homepage. Which kinda makes it to "their content"
    - ndriscoll 11mo ago
      They created the system that allows it. StarCraft had user generated content, but no real gambling because the games ended within an hour or so, and no state was kept. If they want to create a platform for children gambling and facilitate the payments, yes let's figure out how to send them to prison. They're not stupid. They know all of the reasons why they have a $60B market cap. That's 2/3 of Nintendo for making a "free" game.
Delphiza 11mo ago
I try to comment on Roblox whenever it comes up as my daughter was pulled into a grooming pedo gang through Roblox. Read some of the comments from a HN thread from 3 years ago where HN parents insist that they are able to properly educate and self-censor. Enough people don't care (enough), despite Roblox being called out all the time by people with big platforms. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32014754#32015542 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32014754#32015542 I am shocked that Roblox has not been shut down, not by regulators, but by parents flat-out denying access. All evidence suggests that yes, it is that bad.

parasubvert 11mo ago

Tbh making Roblox illegal feels like the same moral panic that our parents had around metal music, hip-hop, and arcades. My kid plays Roblox, I prevent her from talking to others, and I police the Robux purchases. It really is a fun platform. The problem is for parents that aren't technical, or are negligent and don't know how to police it.

s1mplicissimus 11mo ago
I think parents (not fully unfoundedly) expect more of a playground experience from something advertised as a "game for children", so for them it follows that they should precisely not have to manually police it.
- parasubvert 11mo ago
  what's amusing about this is that I can't think of a playground irl that a parent wouldn't manually police these days. letting kids roam entirely free is a remnant of the 80s and a bit of the 90s.
endymion-light 11mo ago
I mean, gambling for underage children is already illegal due to a myriad of reasons. I'd argue the psychological design of gacha games should be limited. Building patterns that get adults addicted, and advertising them specifically to children is the problem. In the same way if a casino advertised child roulette wheels, I'd want legislation to step in.
- Ekaros 11mo ago
  I would not be against banning sale of any type of mystery or lootbox mechanics to those under age of 18. Including all digital and physical products. Yes, some things will be lost, but I think it will be for better.
  - iamnothere 11mo ago
    It’s tough to put into law because this could easily cover innocuous things like gas station gashapon machines, school raffles, and Pokemon cards. Most people aren’t going to support a ban on those. And when you try to try to target the law too narrowly, you can run into problems with loopholes or legal precedent that prevents discriminatory and targeted legislation (there is precedent around equal protection). I do think people should push for voluntary limits on gacha mechanics, because they are awful when overused and are probably harmful for a small percentage of the population that’s prone to gambling. Steam would probably be fine with rating/age gating games that heavily rely on these mechanics, the hard part is getting Google and Apple on board. Micropayments from “whales” (high spenders) provide a lot of revenue for them. I’m also not entirely sure that gacha mechanics alone are that bad, it’s when you combine them with currency (virtual or real) that it becomes a huge problem. Absent currency it’s usually a self-limiting problem, because overuse of the mechanic makes the game worse.

andrewmutz 11mo ago

Why is it a societal issue rather than just a parenting issue? Just don't let your kids play roblox. It's what I do and it works fine.

nickthegreek 11mo ago
As a society, we limit children's access to predatory stuff all the time - porn, alcohol, cigarettes, gambling/lottery, guns, even swear words on the public airwaves.
endymion-light 11mo ago
I mean, if someone was on a street corner selling child friendly cigarettes, I wouldn't call that a parenting issue. I think parenting is one aspect, but surely you see how given it's a platform that advertises itself specifically for children, in the same way as if there was a children channel on the TV telling your kids to smoke crack, maybe someone should step in
- socalgal2 11mo ago
  Yea, we'd charge the person on the corner selling the cigarettes. We wouldn't sue the city for selling cigarettes just because it happened in the city, even if the person selling them paid their taxes (so the city made money on it).
  - Delphiza 11mo ago
    We would expect the 'city' to police the illegal cigarette sellers, and vote them out if they didn't.
ronsor 11mo ago
I think it becomes a societal issue when the product is specifically aimed at children as opposed to simply existing.

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]