3 ms·

> There are electrical firing of neurons, absolutely, but do they directly define thought? Well, surgeons and researchers have shown that electrical stimulatio

> There are electrical firing of neurons, absolutely, but do they directly define thought? Well, surgeons and researchers have shown that electrical stimulation of certain brain regions, can induce "perception" during procedures. They can make a patient have the conscious experience of certain smells, for instance. It's not conclusive proof of anything, but I wouldn't bet against us getting closer to the mark, than we were when we only considered hydro-dynamics as the model.

saboot 11mo ago
It goes far beyond smells, in ways I find deeply unsettling We can induce religious experience, see "The God Helmet" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet or deep depression & suicidal thoughts https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199905133401905 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199905133401905
- mvkel 11mo ago
  That god helmet article seems to thoroughly debunk it as snake oil quackery, which is indeed deeply disturbing
- potwinkle 11mo ago
  The Wikipedia page seems to show that it's just a placebo/scam? The helmet has the equivalent magnetic effect of a fridge magnet or hair dryer, and researchers in Sweden replicating the research in a double-blind study found no effect at all. Looking at the pictures on the official website https://www.god-helmet.com/wp/god-helmet/index.htm https://www.god-helmet.com/wp/god-helmet/index.htm , it's just magnets on a snowmobile helmet this guy bought.
- david-gpu 11mo ago
  Thhe "God helmet" was likely a placebo device. From the very same Wikipedia article you linked: > Other groups have subsequently found that individual differences such as strong belief in the paranormal and magical ideation predict some alterations in consciousness and reported "exceptional experiences" when Persinger et al's experimental set-up and procedure are reproduced, but with a sham "God helmet" that is completely inert or a helmet that is turned off.
JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
> surgeons and researchers have shown that electrical stimulation of certain brain regions, can induce "perception" during procedures I can carefully drop liquid reactants on a storage medium and induce nontrivial and reproducible changes in any computer reading it. That doesn't tell me how digital storage works, it just says I'm proximate to the process.
- quantummagic 11mo ago
  Indeed, that's why I said it wasn't conclusive proof of anything. But it also seems like a bit of wishful thinking, that it isn't more than proximate. There seems to be a strong psychological need for people to feel like more than their biology. We have centuries of faith and myth that put us as central characters, and heaven-bound spirits.

saboot 11mo ago

It goes far beyond smells, in ways I find deeply unsettling We can induce religious experience, see "The God Helmet" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet or deep depression & suicidal thoughts https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199905133401905 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199905133401905

mvkel 11mo ago
That god helmet article seems to thoroughly debunk it as snake oil quackery, which is indeed deeply disturbing
potwinkle 11mo ago
The Wikipedia page seems to show that it's just a placebo/scam? The helmet has the equivalent magnetic effect of a fridge magnet or hair dryer, and researchers in Sweden replicating the research in a double-blind study found no effect at all. Looking at the pictures on the official website https://www.god-helmet.com/wp/god-helmet/index.htm https://www.god-helmet.com/wp/god-helmet/index.htm , it's just magnets on a snowmobile helmet this guy bought.
david-gpu 11mo ago
Thhe "God helmet" was likely a placebo device. From the very same Wikipedia article you linked: > Other groups have subsequently found that individual differences such as strong belief in the paranormal and magical ideation predict some alterations in consciousness and reported "exceptional experiences" when Persinger et al's experimental set-up and procedure are reproduced, but with a sham "God helmet" that is completely inert or a helmet that is turned off.

JumpCrisscross 11mo ago

> surgeons and researchers have shown that electrical stimulation of certain brain regions, can induce "perception" during procedures I can carefully drop liquid reactants on a storage medium and induce nontrivial and reproducible changes in any computer reading it. That doesn't tell me how digital storage works, it just says I'm proximate to the process.

quantummagic 11mo ago
Indeed, that's why I said it wasn't conclusive proof of anything. But it also seems like a bit of wishful thinking, that it isn't more than proximate. There seems to be a strong psychological need for people to feel like more than their biology. We have centuries of faith and myth that put us as central characters, and heaven-bound spirits.