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Remember when they arrested Pavel Durov? I don't buy their official reasoning. Dear European friends, our leaders are tightening the screws. If we don't make o

by cedws 11mo ago

Remember when they arrested Pavel Durov? I don't buy their official reasoning. Dear European friends, our leaders are tightening the screws. If we don't make our voices heard this is only going to get worse. https://x.com/durov/status/1976420399970701543 https://x.com/durov/status/1976420399970701543

looobay 11mo ago
In the Pavel case, it involved child pornography groups on Telegram and the fact that they ignore a court order. But I agree with you for the authoritarian logics in Europe (even America) with Chat Control and other actions like the French gov. just did....
TiredOfLife 11mo ago
I remember. It helped expose his lies about not traveling to russia and not collaborating with russian security services.
- tagyro 11mo ago
  care to expand/provide some more info?
  - mikeyouse 11mo ago
    Durov had long claimed he was in exile from Russia and couldn’t return and that he was a UAE/French citizen. then records leaked that showed 120 border crossings from 2016-2021 and that he still held a Russian passport. One such border crossing was a flight from St Petersburg on June 18, 2020 which happens to be the same day that Telegram was unblocked in Russia… Lots and lots of smoke.. The Kyiv Independent article is a good summary. https://kyivindependent.com/opinion-examining-telegram-founder-pavel-durovs-alleged-ties-to-the-kremlin/ https://kyivindependent.com/opinion-examining-telegram-found...
    - dijit 11mo ago
      I was hit pretty hard when Russia was trying to block telegram; I don’t buy that it was a coverup. And there is only a single (anonymous) source for that whole article. That said, would be good to rely on no central authority and use Matrix instead; or at least put OTR/Ratchet on top of Telegram with custom clients. TG does not seem hostile to third party clients the same way Whatsapp/Signal are. It would otherwise serve the USA for people to prefer Signal over TG (due to jurisdiction).
      - mikeyouse 11mo ago
        I think they legitimately blocked Telegram and then Durov made a series of choices to bring it back to Russia. Basically everything in the KI story has been verified. Durov admitted that he kept his Russian passport, he admitted that he was essentially lying about his Russian exile and regularly and freely traveled there, he hasn’t denied spending the week before Telegram was reinstated in St Petersburg which would be a no-brainer if he wasn’t really there. As for choice of app — it again depends on your adversary. Telegram’s non-standard and home-brewed protocol has had every crypto expert asking “why? If not to…” Lookup the name Vladimir Vedeneev and try and figure out why he’s signing Russian contracts as Telegram’s CFO and why his company GlobalNet has bragged about being the first to do DPI on backbone infrastructure while his other company Electrotelecom has FSB contracts for surveillance software.
    - graphenus 11mo ago
      I dare to point out that this article provides no real evidence for these audacious accusations.
      - mikeyouse 11mo ago
        See my other comment but Durov later admitted to basically all of that (he does travel freely in Russia, he did keep his Russian passport, the border crossing list was accurate). The signal - telegram debate has always come down to some variation of “If you trust Telegram to not allow MitM access to their servers and if the non-standard encryption they choose is secure and if you enabled the secure chat feature, it’s probably fine. Signal uses standard encryption and the messages are always encrypted so there’s no need to trust anyone.” Which is likely why Signal is banned in Russia and Telegram is freely available.
moffkalast 11mo ago
You know I didn't use to understand libertarians, but after years of watching boundaries being overstepped again and again I think I see the appeal of burning it all down and living in a cabin in the woods. Like, in Europe we already live in a completely safe society in historical and geographic terms, what more do you fucking want? Security is beyond a laughable excuse for things like chat control. Power tripping elitists will never be happy until they have the entire population under 24/7 camera surveillance and can read every thought in our heads as it occurs. If you make crime impossible, you make free will impossible.
- maxlin 11mo ago
  The same reason there's only more regulations being piled on top of previous ones. Sadly only wars and similar catastrophes work as reset buttons for these things historically. A peace as long as the current one is somewhat of an untested ground
- cmrdporcupine 11mo ago
  I agree with your overall sentiment, except: "Like, in Europe we already live in a completely safe society in historical and geographic terms" Russia. Putin.
  - YC666943749 11mo ago
    [flagged]
    - idiotsecant 11mo ago
      What a surprise a 2 hour old throwaway post parroting barely coherent Russian propaganda.
    - phba 11mo ago
      This "joke" is neither funny nor original as it comes up on social media everytime someone mentions Russia as a threat to Europe. Oh, look at that. A fresh account just to make this comment. What a coincidence.
gcbirzan 11mo ago
I mean, Durov has been trying to push for Russian puppets to get elected in Romanian and Moldovan elections, by pushing to everyone (at least in Romania, he might've just posted on twitter for Moldova) that the French government is trying to interfere in the Romanian elections. I mean, it turns out, Russia was, on behalf of the candidate he was talking about... so take from that what you will. Oh, yeah, and he calls himself DuRove now. Hats off for that one, but I hope he rots in prison for advancing the Russian agenda.
- kome 11mo ago
  I mean, sorry, but the EU essentially installed puppets in both Romania and Moldova, what are we even talking about here?
  - gcbirzan 11mo ago
    I'm sure you're very familiar with the politics of both countries, but tell me... How is Nicusor Dan a puppet of the EU? More than Calin Georgescu? The guy who actively tried to stage a coup? More than George Simion? Granted, there's no PROOF he's a Russian puppet, but he's a far right twat that has views friendly to Russia. How is Maia Sandu and PES a puppet of the EU? And... let's look at BEP. Voronin, Russia friendly ex President, he was very against Moldova trying to get closer to the West. And Dodon? The guy who is being indicted for treason, who's a friend of Plahotniuc (he stole 1 billion dollars from banks and fled the country)? Yeah, sure, puppets of the EU, vs corrupt fucking puppets of Russia. I know it's easy to look at this stuff from the outside and say, oh, yeah, the EU is interfering in elections, but there's a lot of history here that you obviously don't have. I like Maia Sandu more than Nicusor Dan (his positions on gay rights were disgusting a while back, he now just stopped talking about them), but compared to the obviousness of the Russian support for their opposition, I think the fact that the EU supports them is just insignificant.
    - cherryteastain 11mo ago
      Remember when they just annulled an election when they did not like the result?
walletdrainer 11mo ago
> I don't buy their official reasoning. Why not? Have you used Telegram? Before Durov’s arrest there was open drug trade everywhere, afterwards they started to actively ban groups.
Fnoord 11mo ago
> We’ve been made to believe that the greatest fight of our generation is to destroy everything our forefathers left us: tradition, privacy, sovereignty, the free market, and free speech. Read: "Hi, I'm a right-wing populist." Tradition is virtue signalling to them. Sovereignty is to fuel this anti-EU trend (a Russian propaganda point). Durov is a Russian asset, I'm sure of it. Why, cause he got ties with the underworld, that is why. He didn't want to act on warez, narcotics, criminals, scams, etc. None of that he took serious, because in the viewpoint of a Russian criminal (the Russian state is the head of the criminal enterprise) all of that is just business. Which is also why he gets along so well with Trump. But when he didn't want to act on child pornography, he went too far. Because approximately all adults oppose that sexual preference. That is when France got his ass handed on a silver plate. If this guy would care about free speech he'd be a lot more vocal about Trump and Putin instead of France and EU. The EU is under attack by Russian trolls, ask anyone who works in SOC. It has become worse...

by cedws 11mo ago

looobay 11mo ago

In the Pavel case, it involved child pornography groups on Telegram and the fact that they ignore a court order. But I agree with you for the authoritarian logics in Europe (even America) with Chat Control and other actions like the French gov. just did....

TiredOfLife 11mo ago

I remember. It helped expose his lies about not traveling to russia and not collaborating with russian security services.

tagyro 11mo ago
care to expand/provide some more info?
- mikeyouse 11mo ago
  Durov had long claimed he was in exile from Russia and couldn’t return and that he was a UAE/French citizen. then records leaked that showed 120 border crossings from 2016-2021 and that he still held a Russian passport. One such border crossing was a flight from St Petersburg on June 18, 2020 which happens to be the same day that Telegram was unblocked in Russia… Lots and lots of smoke.. The Kyiv Independent article is a good summary. https://kyivindependent.com/opinion-examining-telegram-founder-pavel-durovs-alleged-ties-to-the-kremlin/ https://kyivindependent.com/opinion-examining-telegram-found...
  - dijit 11mo ago
    I was hit pretty hard when Russia was trying to block telegram; I don’t buy that it was a coverup. And there is only a single (anonymous) source for that whole article. That said, would be good to rely on no central authority and use Matrix instead; or at least put OTR/Ratchet on top of Telegram with custom clients. TG does not seem hostile to third party clients the same way Whatsapp/Signal are. It would otherwise serve the USA for people to prefer Signal over TG (due to jurisdiction).
    - mikeyouse 11mo ago
      I think they legitimately blocked Telegram and then Durov made a series of choices to bring it back to Russia. Basically everything in the KI story has been verified. Durov admitted that he kept his Russian passport, he admitted that he was essentially lying about his Russian exile and regularly and freely traveled there, he hasn’t denied spending the week before Telegram was reinstated in St Petersburg which would be a no-brainer if he wasn’t really there. As for choice of app — it again depends on your adversary. Telegram’s non-standard and home-brewed protocol has had every crypto expert asking “why? If not to…” Lookup the name Vladimir Vedeneev and try and figure out why he’s signing Russian contracts as Telegram’s CFO and why his company GlobalNet has bragged about being the first to do DPI on backbone infrastructure while his other company Electrotelecom has FSB contracts for surveillance software.
  - graphenus 11mo ago
    I dare to point out that this article provides no real evidence for these audacious accusations.
    - mikeyouse 11mo ago
      See my other comment but Durov later admitted to basically all of that (he does travel freely in Russia, he did keep his Russian passport, the border crossing list was accurate). The signal - telegram debate has always come down to some variation of “If you trust Telegram to not allow MitM access to their servers and if the non-standard encryption they choose is secure and if you enabled the secure chat feature, it’s probably fine. Signal uses standard encryption and the messages are always encrypted so there’s no need to trust anyone.” Which is likely why Signal is banned in Russia and Telegram is freely available.

moffkalast 11mo ago

You know I didn't use to understand libertarians, but after years of watching boundaries being overstepped again and again I think I see the appeal of burning it all down and living in a cabin in the woods. Like, in Europe we already live in a completely safe society in historical and geographic terms, what more do you fucking want? Security is beyond a laughable excuse for things like chat control. Power tripping elitists will never be happy until they have the entire population under 24/7 camera surveillance and can read every thought in our heads as it occurs. If you make crime impossible, you make free will impossible.

maxlin 11mo ago
The same reason there's only more regulations being piled on top of previous ones. Sadly only wars and similar catastrophes work as reset buttons for these things historically. A peace as long as the current one is somewhat of an untested ground
cmrdporcupine 11mo ago
I agree with your overall sentiment, except: "Like, in Europe we already live in a completely safe society in historical and geographic terms" Russia. Putin.
- YC666943749 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - idiotsecant 11mo ago
    What a surprise a 2 hour old throwaway post parroting barely coherent Russian propaganda.
  - phba 11mo ago
    This "joke" is neither funny nor original as it comes up on social media everytime someone mentions Russia as a threat to Europe. Oh, look at that. A fresh account just to make this comment. What a coincidence.

gcbirzan 11mo ago

I mean, Durov has been trying to push for Russian puppets to get elected in Romanian and Moldovan elections, by pushing to everyone (at least in Romania, he might've just posted on twitter for Moldova) that the French government is trying to interfere in the Romanian elections. I mean, it turns out, Russia was, on behalf of the candidate he was talking about... so take from that what you will. Oh, yeah, and he calls himself DuRove now. Hats off for that one, but I hope he rots in prison for advancing the Russian agenda.

kome 11mo ago
I mean, sorry, but the EU essentially installed puppets in both Romania and Moldova, what are we even talking about here?
- gcbirzan 11mo ago
  I'm sure you're very familiar with the politics of both countries, but tell me... How is Nicusor Dan a puppet of the EU? More than Calin Georgescu? The guy who actively tried to stage a coup? More than George Simion? Granted, there's no PROOF he's a Russian puppet, but he's a far right twat that has views friendly to Russia. How is Maia Sandu and PES a puppet of the EU? And... let's look at BEP. Voronin, Russia friendly ex President, he was very against Moldova trying to get closer to the West. And Dodon? The guy who is being indicted for treason, who's a friend of Plahotniuc (he stole 1 billion dollars from banks and fled the country)? Yeah, sure, puppets of the EU, vs corrupt fucking puppets of Russia. I know it's easy to look at this stuff from the outside and say, oh, yeah, the EU is interfering in elections, but there's a lot of history here that you obviously don't have. I like Maia Sandu more than Nicusor Dan (his positions on gay rights were disgusting a while back, he now just stopped talking about them), but compared to the obviousness of the Russian support for their opposition, I think the fact that the EU supports them is just insignificant.
  - cherryteastain 11mo ago
    Remember when they just annulled an election when they did not like the result?

walletdrainer 11mo ago

> I don't buy their official reasoning. Why not? Have you used Telegram? Before Durov’s arrest there was open drug trade everywhere, afterwards they started to actively ban groups.

Fnoord 11mo ago

> We’ve been made to believe that the greatest fight of our generation is to destroy everything our forefathers left us: tradition, privacy, sovereignty, the free market, and free speech. Read: "Hi, I'm a right-wing populist." Tradition is virtue signalling to them. Sovereignty is to fuel this anti-EU trend (a Russian propaganda point). Durov is a Russian asset, I'm sure of it. Why, cause he got ties with the underworld, that is why. He didn't want to act on warez, narcotics, criminals, scams, etc. None of that he took serious, because in the viewpoint of a Russian criminal (the Russian state is the head of the criminal enterprise) all of that is just business. Which is also why he gets along so well with Trump. But when he didn't want to act on child pornography, he went too far. Because approximately all adults oppose that sexual preference. That is when France got his ass handed on a silver plate. If this guy would care about free speech he'd be a lot more vocal about Trump and Putin instead of France and EU. The EU is under attack by Russian trolls, ask anyone who works in SOC. It has become worse...