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I makes sense because you probably bought a US guitar instead. The goal of tariffs isn't to benefit you. If you want to argue on the merits, you can do that,

I makes sense because you probably bought a US guitar instead. The goal of tariffs isn't to benefit you. If you want to argue on the merits, you can do that, but don't claim it doesn't make sense.

limaoscarjuliet 11mo ago
It is a double edged sword - the U.S. manufacturers no longer have to compete with potentially better products from overseas, they can push lower quality to the local market for the same price.
- terminalshort 11mo ago
  This is correct. But this creates an opportunity for other domestic manufacturers to offer a better deal. Look at the Chinese car manufacturers. It was Chinese policy to say basically "sorry, you just have to buy shitty domestic cars or pay massive tariffs." Now their domestic manufacturers have gotten good enough that they are exporters themselves.
alistairSH 11mo ago
Is that true though? Cameras and bicycles are my two main hobbies. Essentially zero US production for either. Prices have gone up, but for no good reason - there's no US industry to protect. Limited, highly-targeted tariffs can serve a purpose. But the blanket stuff we've seen this year make zero sense at a macroeconomic level.
- terminalshort 11mo ago
  Yes, blanket tariffs are retarded. However, the point of the tariffs is that it is a national priority to develop a domestic industry. It is, of course, arguable that this national priority makes sense, but the fact that it makes your hobbies much more expensive is not at all relevant. The Trump trade policy makes no sense and has been horribly executed on op of that, but I think that in the long run moving away from a policy of "as much cheap stuff for consumers as possible no matter the externalizes" will be a good thing.
  - alistairSH 11mo ago
    in the long run moving away from a policy of "as much cheap stuff for consumers as possible no matter the externalizes" will be a good thing. That strikes me as something akin to the broken window fallacy. Tariffs are absolutely market-distorting and absolutely lead to higher prices. We absolutely should be leveraging lower cost of labor overseas to build cheap stuff. If there is concern about other externalities (pollution, slave labor, etc) then address those directly with sanctions, targeted tariffs, or something else. I've yet to see a good argument that overconsumption is bad (in a general economic sense). If we're overspending (not saving, or over-leveraging) then address that directly (not via tariffs). If it's a pollution argument, then address that directly. Etc.
    - rangestransform 11mo ago
      The problem is when the US has to fight a conventional war and can’t make cheap robotic warfighters on the scale of the China aligned bloc
bmitc 11mo ago
> I makes sense because you probably bought a US guitar instead. Nope. Japanese guitars are substantially higher quality and at lower prices than U.S. made guitars. I'm still waiting for you to describe how this makes sense. The U.S. doesn't have the industries the foreign market has.

I makes sense because you probably bought a US guitar instead. The goal of tariffs isn't to benefit you. If you want to argue on the merits, you can do that, but don't claim it doesn't make sense.

limaoscarjuliet 11mo ago

It is a double edged sword - the U.S. manufacturers no longer have to compete with potentially better products from overseas, they can push lower quality to the local market for the same price.

terminalshort 11mo ago
This is correct. But this creates an opportunity for other domestic manufacturers to offer a better deal. Look at the Chinese car manufacturers. It was Chinese policy to say basically "sorry, you just have to buy shitty domestic cars or pay massive tariffs." Now their domestic manufacturers have gotten good enough that they are exporters themselves.

alistairSH 11mo ago

Is that true though? Cameras and bicycles are my two main hobbies. Essentially zero US production for either. Prices have gone up, but for no good reason - there's no US industry to protect. Limited, highly-targeted tariffs can serve a purpose. But the blanket stuff we've seen this year make zero sense at a macroeconomic level.

terminalshort 11mo ago
Yes, blanket tariffs are retarded. However, the point of the tariffs is that it is a national priority to develop a domestic industry. It is, of course, arguable that this national priority makes sense, but the fact that it makes your hobbies much more expensive is not at all relevant. The Trump trade policy makes no sense and has been horribly executed on op of that, but I think that in the long run moving away from a policy of "as much cheap stuff for consumers as possible no matter the externalizes" will be a good thing.
- alistairSH 11mo ago
  in the long run moving away from a policy of "as much cheap stuff for consumers as possible no matter the externalizes" will be a good thing. That strikes me as something akin to the broken window fallacy. Tariffs are absolutely market-distorting and absolutely lead to higher prices. We absolutely should be leveraging lower cost of labor overseas to build cheap stuff. If there is concern about other externalities (pollution, slave labor, etc) then address those directly with sanctions, targeted tariffs, or something else. I've yet to see a good argument that overconsumption is bad (in a general economic sense). If we're overspending (not saving, or over-leveraging) then address that directly (not via tariffs). If it's a pollution argument, then address that directly. Etc.
  - rangestransform 11mo ago
    The problem is when the US has to fight a conventional war and can’t make cheap robotic warfighters on the scale of the China aligned bloc

bmitc 11mo ago

> I makes sense because you probably bought a US guitar instead. Nope. Japanese guitars are substantially higher quality and at lower prices than U.S. made guitars. I'm still waiting for you to describe how this makes sense. The U.S. doesn't have the industries the foreign market has.