4 ms·

Simple, US health care continues to fall behind other Industrial Countries. But the big ask here is, what is wrong with the US educational System that forces p

by jmclnx 11mo ago

Simple, US health care continues to fall behind other Industrial Countries. But the big ask here is, what is wrong with the US educational System that forces people to avoid becoming medical professionals ? Maybe when Trump is gone, this specific situation may revert back to pre-trump. But that does not mean education will be fixed.

nxm 11mo ago
US health care continues to fall behind other Industrial Countries. Can you provide evidence of this? The services are top notch, and over 90% of people have health insurance. Moreover, in other single payer systems (Canada, Poland) I keep hearing about months long wait for procedures until you go private/out-of-pocket.
- emestifs 11mo ago
  Sorry, but as an outsider from one of those other countries you mention, I don't get what you mean by top notch? Top notch for whom? The people who can afford to pay out of pocket? Or those willing to do into debt to just get treatment? Whenever I see news from places like PBS News Hour, it's about some low wage or senior person struggling to just care for their medical needs or prescriptions. I don't know my guy, your system isn't exactly top notch for most people - I don't think you need to look very hard to see that if you try. Random examples: - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/OECD_health_expenditure_per_capita_by_country.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/OECD_hea... - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Life_expectancy_vs_healthcare_spending.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Life_exp... There's something very very wrong here when your paying that much per capita and a lot of people are still struggling.
- cosmotic 11mo ago
  The unique thing about the US healthcare system is that care is directly proportional to how much money you can spend on it. So as a top spender, yes the care is great. Though realistically we should look at the system as a whole for all people it "covers". Looking at infant mortality rate, life expectancy, etc, for the average person, the picture is bleak; the US is shockingly bad.
  - taylodl 11mo ago
    Exactly. The data tells the story, and the results data of healthcare in America is abysmal. I used to workout at a gym that was near a major hospital. I will never forget a conversation I overheard between two doctors in the steam room many, many years ago where they were talking about this issue and the one doctor quipped to the other "the United States has the best healthcare nobody can afford."
- antisthenes 11mo ago
  Having insurance in the US doesn't mean anything, as the insurance itself does not provide any health care. In fact they actively try to provide as little care as possible. It's a negative signal, not a positive one as you seem to think. > The services are top notch Healthcare is a plethora of services, ranging from something as simple as a blood draw to open-heart surgery. I can tell you from experience that many diagnostic services are definitely NOT top notch, and the service of getting billed after is an absolute nightmare. Examine your priors.
- cjbenedikt 11mo ago
  New International Study: U.S. Health System Fails Many Americans; Ranks Lowest on Health Equity, Access, and Outcomes https://www.commonwealthfund.org/press-release/2024/new-international-study-us-health-system-fails-many-americans-ranks-lowest https://www.commonwealthfund.org/press-release/2024/new-inte...
- robocat 11mo ago
  > months long wait for procedures The demand for healthcare procedures is unlimited. Instead queues are used to limit access to expensive procedures, because waiting lists are the only solution that is palatable to voters. Although in theory queues shouldn't actually reduce total costs (just delay the costs?)
jswelker 11mo ago
I think the issue is US _culture_, not education (although the two are intertwined). We had too many easy years where you could take a Jack Kerouac road trip for 5 years to find yourself and then settle down to the equivalent of a cushy 6 figure job just for being a man with a pulse. Now if you do that, you will come back to find all the cushy jobs filled, and you are unqualified for anything except bottom of barrel service industry jobs. Today there is a lot more prerequisite grind to become a doctor that parents don't feel good about forcing on their kids. Five decades of movies villifying parents for pushing their kids too hard will do that. Meanwhile, parents in/from China and India and Nigeria and many other places are more than willing to force their kids to grind to move up the economic ladder.
- soco 11mo ago
  Getting into the medical school and staying there for so many years until you can support yourself means also a huge investment from the family. Now, what is the culture saying about this? Would you keep your kids on your paycheck until they're almost 30, or you throw them out to get a job as soon they're 16? And of course, can the kids already afford to be independent and support themselves when they're 16 (aah sweet liberty fuck those geezers)? These are I believe other major contributing factors in western societies.
  - jswelker 11mo ago
    I know this is a rhetorical question, but... yes? As a parent I absolutely am going to make sacrifices to help my kids get through college, and one is planning for med school. I feel like many immigrant parents have this mentality. It is the native born who do not. (Native born white guy here looking at all my family and acquaintances)
- archagon 11mo ago
  At our current level of technological advancement, we should be able to get far more than a 5y Kerouac road trip before joining the grind. Where are all those supposed productivity gains going? Why are we becoming less free? (This is sort of an aside. Yes, bring all the hardworking immigrants here, please. And maybe let them have those road trips, too.)
alistairSH 11mo ago
WTF are you on about? There's a cap on the number of funded residencies (the federal government pays those salaries). Nothing to do with education. Everything to do with the AMA begging Congress to cap those positions ~20 years ago to protect their incomes.

by jmclnx 11mo ago

nxm 11mo ago

US health care continues to fall behind other Industrial Countries. Can you provide evidence of this? The services are top notch, and over 90% of people have health insurance. Moreover, in other single payer systems (Canada, Poland) I keep hearing about months long wait for procedures until you go private/out-of-pocket.

emestifs 11mo ago
Sorry, but as an outsider from one of those other countries you mention, I don't get what you mean by top notch? Top notch for whom? The people who can afford to pay out of pocket? Or those willing to do into debt to just get treatment? Whenever I see news from places like PBS News Hour, it's about some low wage or senior person struggling to just care for their medical needs or prescriptions. I don't know my guy, your system isn't exactly top notch for most people - I don't think you need to look very hard to see that if you try. Random examples: - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/OECD_health_expenditure_per_capita_by_country.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/OECD_hea... - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Life_expectancy_vs_healthcare_spending.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Life_exp... There's something very very wrong here when your paying that much per capita and a lot of people are still struggling.
cosmotic 11mo ago
The unique thing about the US healthcare system is that care is directly proportional to how much money you can spend on it. So as a top spender, yes the care is great. Though realistically we should look at the system as a whole for all people it "covers". Looking at infant mortality rate, life expectancy, etc, for the average person, the picture is bleak; the US is shockingly bad.
- taylodl 11mo ago
  Exactly. The data tells the story, and the results data of healthcare in America is abysmal. I used to workout at a gym that was near a major hospital. I will never forget a conversation I overheard between two doctors in the steam room many, many years ago where they were talking about this issue and the one doctor quipped to the other "the United States has the best healthcare nobody can afford."
antisthenes 11mo ago
Having insurance in the US doesn't mean anything, as the insurance itself does not provide any health care. In fact they actively try to provide as little care as possible. It's a negative signal, not a positive one as you seem to think. > The services are top notch Healthcare is a plethora of services, ranging from something as simple as a blood draw to open-heart surgery. I can tell you from experience that many diagnostic services are definitely NOT top notch, and the service of getting billed after is an absolute nightmare. Examine your priors.
cjbenedikt 11mo ago
New International Study: U.S. Health System Fails Many Americans; Ranks Lowest on Health Equity, Access, and Outcomes https://www.commonwealthfund.org/press-release/2024/new-international-study-us-health-system-fails-many-americans-ranks-lowest https://www.commonwealthfund.org/press-release/2024/new-inte...
robocat 11mo ago
> months long wait for procedures The demand for healthcare procedures is unlimited. Instead queues are used to limit access to expensive procedures, because waiting lists are the only solution that is palatable to voters. Although in theory queues shouldn't actually reduce total costs (just delay the costs?)

jswelker 11mo ago

I think the issue is US _culture_, not education (although the two are intertwined). We had too many easy years where you could take a Jack Kerouac road trip for 5 years to find yourself and then settle down to the equivalent of a cushy 6 figure job just for being a man with a pulse. Now if you do that, you will come back to find all the cushy jobs filled, and you are unqualified for anything except bottom of barrel service industry jobs. Today there is a lot more prerequisite grind to become a doctor that parents don't feel good about forcing on their kids. Five decades of movies villifying parents for pushing their kids too hard will do that. Meanwhile, parents in/from China and India and Nigeria and many other places are more than willing to force their kids to grind to move up the economic ladder.

soco 11mo ago
Getting into the medical school and staying there for so many years until you can support yourself means also a huge investment from the family. Now, what is the culture saying about this? Would you keep your kids on your paycheck until they're almost 30, or you throw them out to get a job as soon they're 16? And of course, can the kids already afford to be independent and support themselves when they're 16 (aah sweet liberty fuck those geezers)? These are I believe other major contributing factors in western societies.
- jswelker 11mo ago
  I know this is a rhetorical question, but... yes? As a parent I absolutely am going to make sacrifices to help my kids get through college, and one is planning for med school. I feel like many immigrant parents have this mentality. It is the native born who do not. (Native born white guy here looking at all my family and acquaintances)
archagon 11mo ago
At our current level of technological advancement, we should be able to get far more than a 5y Kerouac road trip before joining the grind. Where are all those supposed productivity gains going? Why are we becoming less free? (This is sort of an aside. Yes, bring all the hardworking immigrants here, please. And maybe let them have those road trips, too.)

alistairSH 11mo ago

WTF are you on about? There's a cap on the number of funded residencies (the federal government pays those salaries). Nothing to do with education. Everything to do with the AMA begging Congress to cap those positions ~20 years ago to protect their incomes.