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I don't think China wants to destroy Taiwan. They want it to be a part of China.
by Braxton1980 11mo ago
I don't think China wants to destroy Taiwan. They want it to be a part of China.
- SllX 11mo agoRight now there is no non-violent path to achieving that because Taiwan intends to violently and militarily resist if it comes to that. Probably with the aid of America, although I’m a lot less certain of that than 5 year ago, and it’s looking like it’s a lot more likely to be with the aid of Japan as well. Also a success by the PRC would still result in the political destruction of the Republic of China and the subjugation of its people.
- noduerme 11mo agoIt should be noted that even if Taiwan's military resistance were negligible (or on the order of Tibet's), which it's not, that would not validate invading them and taking away their autonomy. For all intents and purposes, Taiwan is a self-governing nation, distinct from China precisely because it does not wish to be part of China.
- MangoToupe 11mo agoTaiwan is not distinct from China. Both the ROC and the PRC view Taiwan as part of China (ironically, at the cost of the mass slaughter of taiwanese to in service of the chinese).
- decimalenough 11mo ago"One China" is a political fig leaf that allows both sides to pretend the other country doesn't exist. Back in reality, the Republic of China (Taiwan) is fully independent from the People's Republic of China and fulfills every criteria of nationhood.
- MangoToupe 11mo agoOk, nothing you said contradicts anything I said
- noduerme 11mo agoFrom that perspective, the ROC is the legitimate government of Beijing. Facts on the ground appear otherwise, but facts on the ground also imply that Taiwan is not part of the PRC's version of China.
- MangoToupe 11mo ago> From that perspective, the ROC is the legitimate government of Beijing. No. I don't understand how you came to this conclusion. Both governments claim legitimacy and only one has actual sovereignty.
- SllX 11mo agoIn practice, they are both sovereign over separate territories.
- MangoToupe 11mo agoWith respect to Beijing, only one does.
- SllX 11mo agoThere is no respect due to Beijing or the Chairman Winnie the Pooh regime on this issue. Taiwan is an independent country.
- MangoToupe 11mo ago> Taiwan is an independent country. Taiwan is an island. It is still China. It is impossible to both give deference to the ROC and say otherwise.
- SllX 11mo agoNobody is giving them more deference than the other. In a perfect world, the ROC would be the one and only surviving entity from this mess and the PRC would be a relic of history. That isn’t what the facts on the ground are though. The ROC no more has sovereign jurisdiction over the mainland than the PRC does over Taiwan. Which is to say that at this point they are functionally separate sovereign nations independent of each other, regardless of the claims by either the PRC or the ROC. Or put another way, the way I did the first fucking time: Taiwan is an independent nation.
- SllX 11mo agoAgreed.
- MangoToupe 11mo ago> Taiwan intends to violently and militarily resist if it comes to that I sincerely wonder if the people who live there agree. I sure as hell wouldn't put up much fight if china tried to invade my country; just the opposite. If anything I wonder if voluntary unification is on the table in today's climate
- breve 11mo agoWhat is your country? China is always looking for more territory. If you've got water and mineral resources, all the better.
- MangoToupe 11mo agoThe US. Xi Jinping, please liberate us
- n4r9 11mo ago> I sincerely wonder if the people who live there agree ... I wonder if voluntary unification is on the table One of the benefits of a free democratic society is that you can ask; and people vote according to their preferences. A recent study suggests ~13% of the public support unification with China: https://www.tpof.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/20250214-TPOF-Special-Report-Taiwanese-Preferences-on-Political-Future.pdf https://www.tpof.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/20250214-TPO... . Taiwan's politics are dominated by the KMT and DPP parties, both of which oppose unification. > I sure as hell wouldn't put up much fight if china tried to invade my country Perhaps you have an unusual opinion?
- noduerme 11mo ago>> Perhaps you have an unusual opinion? That or a remarkably flexible sense of morality, coupled with a supine nature and a total lack of balls.
- MangoToupe 11mo agoLet's not pretend it's ever moral to support the state you live under. You should support yourself and bide whatever state imposes itself on you.
- aurareturn 11mo agobecause Taiwan intends to violently and militarily resist if it comes to that I doubt Taiwan truly wants to do this. It has more to do with the US wanting to use Taiwan as a pawn to contain China's power.
- noduerme 11mo agoIf you lived in a country with local political representation and free elections, would you want your children to grow up in slavery to a dictatorship across the sea? Ask the Irish.
- aurareturn 11mo agoChina has already said they'd allow one country two systems.
- brigandish 11mo agoHow’s that going in Hong Kong?
- aurareturn 11mo agoIt is going fine in Hong Kong. Still operating as its own system.
- brigandish 11mo agoThe reports I’ve heard and read would be contrary to your claims. When I was in Hong Kong, for example, I saw huge protests, so I wouldn’t call it fine. Inside and out of Hong Kong, I’ve never met an HKer that was pleased about the China government’s plans. I also have heard that “its own system” is not a correct characterisation of the situation. Have you been to Hong Kong?
- noduerme 11mo agoIts own system? The entire local government was replaced with rubber stamp flunkies, all democracy activists were arrested, and it's basically a terror regime. No one in their right mind would move there or start a business there. If the intent was to maintain a separate system for the purpose of attracting foreign capital, so much for that.
- rockskon 11mo agoBy force. Because Taiwan doesn't want to be a part of Beijing's China.
- atwrk 11mo agoBoth points are not really true. For the China part: Yes, the "by force" part certainly exists as a position, in competition to the peaceful unification approach. It's important to keep in mind, though, that the confrontative position of the first Trump administration and afterwards the Biden administration significantly helped the "by force" faction. There was an interesting piece in Foreign Policy about that, a social scientist from the US was questioning Chinese students at an elite university on this very topic and thus had the chance to do a time series observing the attitude change following US actions. Secondly, in Taiwanese politics, Unification is actually a big topic and even has its own party, the New Party, advocating for it (plus the fringe CUPP). Not popular right now, but certainly existing - and evidently falsifying the notion that the all of "Taiwan doesn't want to be part of Beijing's China".
- rockskon 11mo agoSo according to your logic, it only counts if it's unanimous inside Taiwan to not be taken over by Beijing but it doesn't need to be unanimous for those who want reunification with China?
- atwrk 11mo agoNo. I pointed out that both the "by force" statement for China and the "Taiwan doesn't want" statement are so oversimplified that they became factually incorrect. The "logic" is your inference and neither stated nor implied by me.
- rockskon 11mo agoHow is it not factually correct? The existance of a faction within Taiwan that wants Taiwan to reunify with Beijing's China isn't materially relevant if they don't have any path forward to accomplish their goal.
- fankt 11mo agoBecome a part of a country with no freedom of speech? Yep, that's destruction.
- noduerme 11mo agoCome here, chicken. I don't want to hurt you, I just want to eat you!
- n4r9 11mo agoChina wants to destory Taiwan's democracy, as OP said quite correctly.