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Most PHP programmers aren't choosing PHP from a toolbox of 5-10 languages that they know really well. They're choosing PHP from a toolbox of one language that t

by debacle 14y ago

Most PHP programmers aren't choosing PHP from a toolbox of 5-10 languages that they know really well. They're choosing PHP from a toolbox of one language that they kind of know.

dwj 14y ago
I've written my own programming language and VM, and I mostly use php for web development because it's quick, easy and gets the job done. Your theory that php developers are lazy and stupid is just nuts. You can write bad code in any language if you want to. I think you've perhaps gotten into the trap of assuming that if a programmer doesn't use the latest cool language (Ruby, Coffeescript, etc.) they are dumb.
- chipotle_coyote 14y ago
  The comment you're replying to didn't assert that most PHP developers are lazy and stupid, but rather asserted that most PHP programmers are using PHP because it's the first "web" language they were introduced to and they haven't really learned anything else. And that's okay. But I'd strongly assert that "PHP is quick, easy and gets the job done" does not support the assertion "PHP is a well-designed language." From what I've seen, Laravel is as high-quality an MVC framework as anything you could find in another language. But if it's a truism that terrific coders can produce terrific code in any programming language -- and I think it is -- then "there is terrific code in PHP" is not a defense of PHP's language design.
  - jtreminio 14y ago
    > From what I've seen, Laravel is as high-quality an MVC framework as anything you could find in another language. No, it's not. You should maybe replace Laravel with Symfony 2.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
kyriakos 14y ago
thats completely not true. I've worked professionally with both C# & Java (at enterprise level) but my current job uses primarily PHP for development - i feel very comfortable with it and i'm more efficient in it than doing the same web development in eiher of the two languages. I also touched ruby and python but I don't consider them part of my knowledge since I didn't really use them professionally and thats why I don't want to include them in my statement above.
mylittlepony 14y ago
Can we take a look at the data you analyzed to come to that conclusion?
- blindhippo 14y ago
  He has none - he's spouting an unfounded view about a technology that he has no idea about.
  - andrewflnr 14y ago
    debacle stated upthread that he uses PHP daily.
    - mylittlepony 14y ago
      > Thus far, the friction of PHP being a bad language hasn't outweighed the utility of it being easy, though as time goes on that utility is worth less and less. But he uses it only because it's easy? Sounds like the very kind of developer he's trying to mock.
      - andrewflnr 14y ago
        The developers he(?) is mocking use PHP because it's the only tool they know. He, supposedly, uses PHP because he has decided it's ease of use (and deployability) make it better than the other tools he knows for the projects he's working on. I don't think this is hard to figure out from what he's written here.
blindhippo 14y ago
"Most NodeJS programmers aren't choosing NodeJS from a toolbox of 5-10 technologies that they know really well. They're choosing NodeJS from a list of hipster approved technologies that they can brag about to their friends." See, I can make ridiculous statements about things I don't know anything about too! (note: I no next to nothing about NodeJS - I enjoy javascript as a language but haven't had a chance to actually use NodeJS beyond a couple tutorials)

by debacle 14y ago

Most PHP programmers aren't choosing PHP from a toolbox of 5-10 languages that they know really well. They're choosing PHP from a toolbox of one language that they kind of know.

dwj 14y ago

I've written my own programming language and VM, and I mostly use php for web development because it's quick, easy and gets the job done. Your theory that php developers are lazy and stupid is just nuts. You can write bad code in any language if you want to. I think you've perhaps gotten into the trap of assuming that if a programmer doesn't use the latest cool language (Ruby, Coffeescript, etc.) they are dumb.

chipotle_coyote 14y ago
The comment you're replying to didn't assert that most PHP developers are lazy and stupid, but rather asserted that most PHP programmers are using PHP because it's the first "web" language they were introduced to and they haven't really learned anything else. And that's okay. But I'd strongly assert that "PHP is quick, easy and gets the job done" does not support the assertion "PHP is a well-designed language." From what I've seen, Laravel is as high-quality an MVC framework as anything you could find in another language. But if it's a truism that terrific coders can produce terrific code in any programming language -- and I think it is -- then "there is terrific code in PHP" is not a defense of PHP's language design.
- jtreminio 14y ago
  > From what I've seen, Laravel is as high-quality an MVC framework as anything you could find in another language. No, it's not. You should maybe replace Laravel with Symfony 2.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

kyriakos 14y ago

thats completely not true. I've worked professionally with both C# & Java (at enterprise level) but my current job uses primarily PHP for development - i feel very comfortable with it and i'm more efficient in it than doing the same web development in eiher of the two languages. I also touched ruby and python but I don't consider them part of my knowledge since I didn't really use them professionally and thats why I don't want to include them in my statement above.

mylittlepony 14y ago

Can we take a look at the data you analyzed to come to that conclusion?

blindhippo 14y ago
He has none - he's spouting an unfounded view about a technology that he has no idea about.
- andrewflnr 14y ago
  debacle stated upthread that he uses PHP daily.
  - mylittlepony 14y ago
    > Thus far, the friction of PHP being a bad language hasn't outweighed the utility of it being easy, though as time goes on that utility is worth less and less. But he uses it only because it's easy? Sounds like the very kind of developer he's trying to mock.
    - andrewflnr 14y ago
      The developers he(?) is mocking use PHP because it's the only tool they know. He, supposedly, uses PHP because he has decided it's ease of use (and deployability) make it better than the other tools he knows for the projects he's working on. I don't think this is hard to figure out from what he's written here.

blindhippo 14y ago

"Most NodeJS programmers aren't choosing NodeJS from a toolbox of 5-10 technologies that they know really well. They're choosing NodeJS from a list of hipster approved technologies that they can brag about to their friends." See, I can make ridiculous statements about things I don't know anything about too! (note: I no next to nothing about NodeJS - I enjoy javascript as a language but haven't had a chance to actually use NodeJS beyond a couple tutorials)