4 ms·

> from a core of fantastic engineers surrounding by marketing/sales, to the org's direction being set by marketing/sales UX be damned. > MacOS I think macos i

> from a core of fantastic engineers surrounding by marketing/sales, to the org's direction being set by marketing/sales UX be damned. > MacOS I think macos is on the same path. Apple refined the MacBook formula to a perfection and the hardware division made the best of it. But outside of the processor, what is the last significant leap forward that involved brilliant engineers that you can think of ? One could argue that nothing should change, but that's a lot of missed opportunies (I personally wanted a response to the Surface Pro, and figured out it won't come anytime soon) and we also know that's not how it goes. If there's no significant progress there will be change for the sake of change (coughLiquid Glasscough)

javier2 10mo ago
Secure Enclave is actually a real dedicated innovation and everything Apple built around this secure box. And the real innovation is not even the technology, but being focused over a decade to design all products to work without making a backdoor. That cant have been easy over so many years
- makeitdouble 10mo ago
  I see the effort and engineering. Is it an innovation ? A secure subsystem sounds pretty familiar to me, we've had that since the early NFC days, and that powered mobile offline payment (NFC) since two decades now. If macos was bringing it to new heights with incredible applications I'd see the significance of it, but securing login using a TPM is also done by the competition. Apple pushed it farther, but not that much farther as to make it special IMHO. I mean, even in iOS, I see the point in hardening the system, but that's not just the Secure Enclave, and on the other side of the coin we get nothing else that wasn't there before.
- thot_experiment 10mo ago
  I don't consider work done to prevent me having complete control of my own hardware to be a positive development. In fact it's one of the worst things they could spend their time on (from a long term global optimum perspective).
GeekyBear 10mo ago
Apple created a boot loader that allows the device owner to install and run an unsigned OS like Asahi Linux without degrading the system's security when you run MacOS. Applying security per partition instead of per device gives users more control, and you no longer have to worry about Microsoft having control of the machine's signing keys.
- makeitdouble 10mo ago
  I'm not versed into that part. Does it bring significant improvements (more secure or flexible ?) over UEFI secure boot ?
  - GeekyBear 10mo ago
    UEFI has a massively larger attack surface, and secure boot is either on or off for the whole machine. So UEFI is both less secure and less flexible.
nehal3m 10mo ago
I take your point, but the audio engineering on the laptop and tablet offerings of the past 5 years is mind blowing.
carlosjobim 10mo ago
Well what do you want?
- makeitdouble 10mo ago
  Sheer innovation. I moved on, as other makers are pushing the enveloppe, but feel it's a shame Apple couldn't keep pushing during the Tim Cook area. Also having no good commercial alternative to Microsoft sucks, and that's where we're heading.
  - fragmede 10mo ago
    in which specific industry, for which specific product feature? Google Workspace has largely taken over my bubble, I know there's a world outside my bubble, but for me, Google docs > whatever Microsoft Word is now. O365?
    - makeitdouble 10mo ago
      I assume you're responding to the commercial alternatives to Microsoft ? I was thinking about the OS layer. My understanding is that hardware makers want to discharge responsibility of the OS on other entities, and ideally wouldn't even want to write drivers if they could avoid it. Having a partner you can enter a contract to provide an OS and maintain it for however long is needed is IMHO a huge deal they don't get with linux. That's why Framework is the only maker coming up with remotely innovative ideas and also supporting linux. I love them for that, but as the other side of the coin they are extremely limited in the business side, they won't even ship to most of SEA for instance. Apple plowing forward at least brings some competition, we've seen that on the ARM side. And looking at Microsoft(!) and other makers plowing forward on the form factors, I'd wish Apple had followed.
      - AlotOfReading 10mo ago
        There's a boatload of Linux contractors who will do the technical work for you and maintain it for as long as you want, at the right price. That includes fairly large names like Suse. As far as I'm aware, all of those contractors focus on the embedded Linux market because consumer OEMs simply aren't asking for those services. The major OEMs don't have either the margin or the consumer demand for it, and they're not willing to commit the resources to escape that local minimum.

javier2 10mo ago

Secure Enclave is actually a real dedicated innovation and everything Apple built around this secure box. And the real innovation is not even the technology, but being focused over a decade to design all products to work without making a backdoor. That cant have been easy over so many years

makeitdouble 10mo ago
I see the effort and engineering. Is it an innovation ? A secure subsystem sounds pretty familiar to me, we've had that since the early NFC days, and that powered mobile offline payment (NFC) since two decades now. If macos was bringing it to new heights with incredible applications I'd see the significance of it, but securing login using a TPM is also done by the competition. Apple pushed it farther, but not that much farther as to make it special IMHO. I mean, even in iOS, I see the point in hardening the system, but that's not just the Secure Enclave, and on the other side of the coin we get nothing else that wasn't there before.
thot_experiment 10mo ago
I don't consider work done to prevent me having complete control of my own hardware to be a positive development. In fact it's one of the worst things they could spend their time on (from a long term global optimum perspective).

GeekyBear 10mo ago

Apple created a boot loader that allows the device owner to install and run an unsigned OS like Asahi Linux without degrading the system's security when you run MacOS. Applying security per partition instead of per device gives users more control, and you no longer have to worry about Microsoft having control of the machine's signing keys.

makeitdouble 10mo ago
I'm not versed into that part. Does it bring significant improvements (more secure or flexible ?) over UEFI secure boot ?
- GeekyBear 10mo ago
  UEFI has a massively larger attack surface, and secure boot is either on or off for the whole machine. So UEFI is both less secure and less flexible.

nehal3m 10mo ago

I take your point, but the audio engineering on the laptop and tablet offerings of the past 5 years is mind blowing.

carlosjobim 10mo ago

Well what do you want?

makeitdouble 10mo ago
Sheer innovation. I moved on, as other makers are pushing the enveloppe, but feel it's a shame Apple couldn't keep pushing during the Tim Cook area. Also having no good commercial alternative to Microsoft sucks, and that's where we're heading.
- fragmede 10mo ago
  in which specific industry, for which specific product feature? Google Workspace has largely taken over my bubble, I know there's a world outside my bubble, but for me, Google docs > whatever Microsoft Word is now. O365?
  - makeitdouble 10mo ago
    I assume you're responding to the commercial alternatives to Microsoft ? I was thinking about the OS layer. My understanding is that hardware makers want to discharge responsibility of the OS on other entities, and ideally wouldn't even want to write drivers if they could avoid it. Having a partner you can enter a contract to provide an OS and maintain it for however long is needed is IMHO a huge deal they don't get with linux. That's why Framework is the only maker coming up with remotely innovative ideas and also supporting linux. I love them for that, but as the other side of the coin they are extremely limited in the business side, they won't even ship to most of SEA for instance. Apple plowing forward at least brings some competition, we've seen that on the ARM side. And looking at Microsoft(!) and other makers plowing forward on the form factors, I'd wish Apple had followed.
    - AlotOfReading 10mo ago
      There's a boatload of Linux contractors who will do the technical work for you and maintain it for as long as you want, at the right price. That includes fairly large names like Suse. As far as I'm aware, all of those contractors focus on the embedded Linux market because consumer OEMs simply aren't asking for those services. The major OEMs don't have either the margin or the consumer demand for it, and they're not willing to commit the resources to escape that local minimum.