4 ms·

PHP's killer app is the LAMP stack and $5 hosting. Unless you can replicate that familiarity on a phone, PHP wont find traction. There are far better programmin

by debacle 14y ago

PHP's killer app is the LAMP stack and $5 hosting. Unless you can replicate that familiarity on a phone, PHP wont find traction. There are far better programming languages out there with more backing, and I don't think not having PHP has been a major hurdle for mobile development PHP is the core web language because PHP devs (for the most part) are cheap, replaceable parts. You need to be smarter than that for mobile development, and anyone smart enough for mobile dev won't use PHP if they don't have to.

bvdbijl 14y ago
Why is mobile harder?
- debacle 14y ago
  Different screen sizes, different capabilities of machines, more of an eye on performance, and persistent apps mean actually thinking about memory management. Unless Zend's idea is "bring localhost to your mobile phone," there are going to be a lot of hurdles to adoption.
  - kappaknight 14y ago
    The web has always had different screen sizes and very different capabilities of machines. Heck, having to code for IE6 should trump any difficulties faced in mobile.
jemka 14y ago
You had a valid point right up to your last sentence where you just had to take a dig at PHP devs.
- debacle 14y ago
  Do I need to apologize for pointing out PHP's obvious flaws and that anyone who doesn't need to use PHP for hosting reasons or for library/framework reasons probably isn't using it? I use PHP to develop for the web every day. Thus far, the friction of PHP being a bad language hasn't outweighed the utility of it being easy, though as time goes on that utility is worth less and less.
  - jemka 14y ago
    You should apologize for insinuating a person's choice of a programming language is a reflection of their intelligence. I'm sure you're perfectly capable of writing marvelous code in PHP or any other language.
    - debacle 14y ago
      Most PHP programmers aren't choosing PHP from a toolbox of 5-10 languages that they know really well. They're choosing PHP from a toolbox of one language that they kind of know.
      - dwj 14y ago
        I've written my own programming language and VM, and I mostly use php for web development because it's quick, easy and gets the job done. Your theory that php developers are lazy and stupid is just nuts. You can write bad code in any language if you want to. I think you've perhaps gotten into the trap of assuming that if a programmer doesn't use the latest cool language (Ruby, Coffeescript, etc.) they are dumb.
        chipotle_coyote 14y ago
        The comment you're replying to didn't assert that most PHP developers are lazy and stupid, but rather asserted that most PHP programmers are using PHP because it's the first "web" language they were introduced to and they haven't really learned anything else. And that's okay. But I'd strongly assert that "PHP is quick, easy and gets the job done" does not support the assertion "PHP is a well-designed language." From what I've seen, Laravel is as high-quality an MVC framework as anything you could find in another language. But if it's a truism that terrific coders can produce terrific code in any programming language -- and I think it is -- then "there is terrific code in PHP" is not a defense of PHP's language design.
        jtreminio 14y ago
        > From what I've seen, Laravel is as high-quality an MVC framework as anything you could find in another language. No, it's not. You should maybe replace Laravel with Symfony 2.
Alan01252 14y ago
Sorry, but that last line sentence has really touched a nerve, maybe I'm being trolled, but here comes my 2 cents anyway. I personally use PHP all the time, I love it. I can code large, maintainable and secure applications with far more speed than any other language I've ever used ( and trust me I've used a lot ). It's my language of choice when I'm building web applications. Not only is it available everywhere! but it's been established for long enough that there are a wide range of top quality frameworks and libraries written for it. Oh and these have been written by developers who I'm certain are much smarter than us both. And why the hell is mobile development any harder than web development. It's just code, not arcane magic. Trust me I've seen, and will continue to see, just as much badly written/badly performing code for mobile applications as I do for web based ones. Just because you're using Objective C / Java as the tool of choice doesn't make you any better or smarter a developer. If there is a mobile offering coming up based around PHP, I'm looking forward to trying it. If it allows me the same benefits as the language does on the web then I'll be using it, regardless of how many people think that makes me "not smart".
- Floopsy 14y ago
  Very well-written. I agree with you 100%. The PHP bashing has gotten really old. I too am looking forward to what this new mobile PHP project will entail.
- mylittlepony 14y ago
  You are indeed being trolled. Through the years I have learned to avoid PHP haters all along. While they are wasting their time trying to prove they are better, you are probably getting things done or just enjoying your day because you have already finished.
  - FuzzyDunlop 14y ago
    The reality of it is that it doesn't matter. People have their reasons for making their particular choices, neither of which are good or bad, or are worthy of avoiding or seeking out. I disliked PHP enough to move my career a different way; so fucking what? As such, you're basically wasting your own time trying to prove PHP haters are worse off.
hrktb 14y ago
I do mobile and PHP almost alternatively, and I don't know where it puts me in you definition. PHP is ugly, but ugliness is far from the first thing to care about when choosing a language. Mobile is hard, but good (PHP) server side devs are not cheap or somewhat less valuable either.
jjtheblunt 14y ago
Opinions aside, it's still true that native apps can do things that things generated by PHP fundamentally can not. Examples include spawn true threads, truly use multiple cores with no "global interpreter locks" of any sort other than those explicitly coded in the native app, get at hardware accelerators on a platform, etc.
sbochins 14y ago
Mobile dev being too hard for PHP devs is a naive idea. I think php is kind of a historic language, not many people would choose to use it if they weren't forced. There are obviously a lot of bad design decisions that went into the language. I think for those reasons, it won't catch on for mobile devs. Many of them had to tolerate php at some point and understand why there is no good reason to go back.
masklinn 14y ago
> PHP's killer app is the LAMP stack and $5 hosting. $5? Try $0, how many ISPs provided 20~100MB of hosting with PHP and a MySQL instance to any of their client for no additional charge? Around here, pretty much all of them did. Hell, just look at things like that: http://www.000webhost.com/ http://www.000webhost.com/ PHP, MySQL, 1.5GB space and 100GB/months bandwidth for $0. Want Ruby? Python? Perl? It'll be $5.

by debacle 14y ago

bvdbijl 14y ago

Why is mobile harder?

debacle 14y ago
Different screen sizes, different capabilities of machines, more of an eye on performance, and persistent apps mean actually thinking about memory management. Unless Zend's idea is "bring localhost to your mobile phone," there are going to be a lot of hurdles to adoption.
- kappaknight 14y ago
  The web has always had different screen sizes and very different capabilities of machines. Heck, having to code for IE6 should trump any difficulties faced in mobile.

jemka 14y ago

You had a valid point right up to your last sentence where you just had to take a dig at PHP devs.

debacle 14y ago
Do I need to apologize for pointing out PHP's obvious flaws and that anyone who doesn't need to use PHP for hosting reasons or for library/framework reasons probably isn't using it? I use PHP to develop for the web every day. Thus far, the friction of PHP being a bad language hasn't outweighed the utility of it being easy, though as time goes on that utility is worth less and less.
- jemka 14y ago
  You should apologize for insinuating a person's choice of a programming language is a reflection of their intelligence. I'm sure you're perfectly capable of writing marvelous code in PHP or any other language.
  - debacle 14y ago
    Most PHP programmers aren't choosing PHP from a toolbox of 5-10 languages that they know really well. They're choosing PHP from a toolbox of one language that they kind of know.
    - dwj 14y ago
      I've written my own programming language and VM, and I mostly use php for web development because it's quick, easy and gets the job done. Your theory that php developers are lazy and stupid is just nuts. You can write bad code in any language if you want to. I think you've perhaps gotten into the trap of assuming that if a programmer doesn't use the latest cool language (Ruby, Coffeescript, etc.) they are dumb.
      - chipotle_coyote 14y ago
        The comment you're replying to didn't assert that most PHP developers are lazy and stupid, but rather asserted that most PHP programmers are using PHP because it's the first "web" language they were introduced to and they haven't really learned anything else. And that's okay. But I'd strongly assert that "PHP is quick, easy and gets the job done" does not support the assertion "PHP is a well-designed language." From what I've seen, Laravel is as high-quality an MVC framework as anything you could find in another language. But if it's a truism that terrific coders can produce terrific code in any programming language -- and I think it is -- then "there is terrific code in PHP" is not a defense of PHP's language design.
        jtreminio 14y ago
        > From what I've seen, Laravel is as high-quality an MVC framework as anything you could find in another language. No, it's not. You should maybe replace Laravel with Symfony 2.

Alan01252 14y ago

Sorry, but that last line sentence has really touched a nerve, maybe I'm being trolled, but here comes my 2 cents anyway. I personally use PHP all the time, I love it. I can code large, maintainable and secure applications with far more speed than any other language I've ever used ( and trust me I've used a lot ). It's my language of choice when I'm building web applications. Not only is it available everywhere! but it's been established for long enough that there are a wide range of top quality frameworks and libraries written for it. Oh and these have been written by developers who I'm certain are much smarter than us both. And why the hell is mobile development any harder than web development. It's just code, not arcane magic. Trust me I've seen, and will continue to see, just as much badly written/badly performing code for mobile applications as I do for web based ones. Just because you're using Objective C / Java as the tool of choice doesn't make you any better or smarter a developer. If there is a mobile offering coming up based around PHP, I'm looking forward to trying it. If it allows me the same benefits as the language does on the web then I'll be using it, regardless of how many people think that makes me "not smart".

Floopsy 14y ago
Very well-written. I agree with you 100%. The PHP bashing has gotten really old. I too am looking forward to what this new mobile PHP project will entail.
mylittlepony 14y ago
You are indeed being trolled. Through the years I have learned to avoid PHP haters all along. While they are wasting their time trying to prove they are better, you are probably getting things done or just enjoying your day because you have already finished.
- FuzzyDunlop 14y ago
  The reality of it is that it doesn't matter. People have their reasons for making their particular choices, neither of which are good or bad, or are worthy of avoiding or seeking out. I disliked PHP enough to move my career a different way; so fucking what? As such, you're basically wasting your own time trying to prove PHP haters are worse off.

hrktb 14y ago

I do mobile and PHP almost alternatively, and I don't know where it puts me in you definition. PHP is ugly, but ugliness is far from the first thing to care about when choosing a language. Mobile is hard, but good (PHP) server side devs are not cheap or somewhat less valuable either.

jjtheblunt 14y ago

Opinions aside, it's still true that native apps can do things that things generated by PHP fundamentally can not. Examples include spawn true threads, truly use multiple cores with no "global interpreter locks" of any sort other than those explicitly coded in the native app, get at hardware accelerators on a platform, etc.

sbochins 14y ago

Mobile dev being too hard for PHP devs is a naive idea. I think php is kind of a historic language, not many people would choose to use it if they weren't forced. There are obviously a lot of bad design decisions that went into the language. I think for those reasons, it won't catch on for mobile devs. Many of them had to tolerate php at some point and understand why there is no good reason to go back.

masklinn 14y ago

> PHP's killer app is the LAMP stack and $5 hosting. $5? Try $0, how many ISPs provided 20~100MB of hosting with PHP and a MySQL instance to any of their client for no additional charge? Around here, pretty much all of them did. Hell, just look at things like that: http://www.000webhost.com/ http://www.000webhost.com/ PHP, MySQL, 1.5GB space and 100GB/months bandwidth for $0. Want Ruby? Python? Perl? It'll be $5.