4 ms·

Apple is at least in part operating like they are a fashion brand. Functionality and usability are secondary to looks. Both in their devices and their software.

Apple is at least in part operating like they are a fashion brand. Functionality and usability are secondary to looks. Both in their devices and their software. It's hard to argue they aren't successful with that. It probably helps that Microsoft has also abandoned usability, just for very different reasons

dawnerd 1y ago
I thought it was an Ive problem but once he left nothing really changed. Sure the Mac got some functionality back but that’s about it. They really need to just not do a redesign and flesh out their software.
raw_anon_1111 1y ago
Are you complaining that Apple is releasing computers that are fast, quiet and with a ridiculous long battery life that are well built as “not functional”?
- encom 1y ago
  Apple has famously been form over function almost since their inception.
  - samdoesnothing 1y ago
    This is true, with the caveat that their function is also best in class. And I mean yeah, they make gorgeous devices, but even if they were ugly id still choose them because they also work better than any alternatives.
    - frizlab 1y ago
      Well said. (An upvote was not enough.)
    - ffsm8 1y ago
      I use an (at this point older) MacBook pro myself (M1) and honestly believe it is a great product. I am a lot happier with it then if I bought an equivalent windows device. However, its definitely true that Apple prioritizes looks is function. We're just currently in a generation where it ceased to matter for the most part, because Apple Silicon has made the previous tradeoffs basically meaningless. But that's not because Apple started to prioritize function, technology has just gotten good enough for their design philosophy to no longer hamper it significantly
  - raw_anon_1111 1y ago
    Again which devices? You’re not an alt for Rob Malda are you wondering why anyone would want an iPod because it had less space than a Nomad and no wireless are you?
- wkat4242 1y ago
  The keyboards are terrible now, even the ones that went back to the original type after the hell that was butterfly. There's still almost no key travel because Apple is so obsessed with thinness.
  - raw_anon_1111 1y ago
    Absolutely no one to a first approximation is complaining about the keyboards since they left the butterfly keyboards even before the ARM transition. These were the same people who (rightfully) criticized the butterfly keyboards left and right.
    - wkat4242 11mo ago
      Maybe people get used to it but I can't. I can't even use the "magic" keyboard. I work with them a lot at work but when I use my MacBook I always use it docked. I just need more key travel. The feel is ok but the travel is not. They were fine until 2015 and I still use the old aluminium keyboard at my desk.
rowanG077 1y ago
I'm not sure that's true. Apple has arguably the best laptops there is in terms of hardware. Making the highest end SoC year after year. That's not operating like a fashion brand.
- samdoesnothing 1y ago
  Some fashion brands (eg Lulu) make excellent quality products as well. Apple nails both form and function imo.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- type0 1y ago
  They are operating as fashion brand, that's why they want to sell you a knitted iPhone Pocket for $230
RossBencina 1y ago
A luxury fashion brand. High quality goods, yet the aesthetics change over time so that the style conscious keep buying the latest to stay on trend. This doesn't apply to all users of course, there are other methods to nudge buying the latest for other personas.
treis 1y ago
I think the HN crowd and the public at large have different ideas of usability. The "I want to save the file on my computer that I own" resonates with us. But there are a lot of advantages to a mobile like experience. There's no viruses, you never lose files, apps don't lock up your device, and so on. The problem isn't really the experience being something like devices as a service. It's that the providers are a rent seeking duopoly.
- pluralmonad 1y ago
  _Maybe_ no viruses is accurate most of the time, but certainly this cannot be extended to no malware. Mobile platforms are 90% malware/spyware.
  - bcrl 1y ago
    It doesn't help that the big tech advertising platforms are making money off pushing ads peddling investment scams and malware. So long as there is a financial incentive to make money in ways that harm "users" things will only get worse. Governments have failed consumers.
  - raw_anon_1111 1y ago
    Malware has a specific meaning - that one app can surreptitiously embed itself in your device, cause damage, or exfiltrate your info. I’m not saying there haven’t been vulnerabilities in iOS. But those were bugs that Apple tried to close. For desktop operating systems, giving third party applications that ability is a feature not a bug. Yes I’m including MacOS in that bucket - see Zoom installing a web server on Macs without letting users know.

dawnerd 1y ago

I thought it was an Ive problem but once he left nothing really changed. Sure the Mac got some functionality back but that’s about it. They really need to just not do a redesign and flesh out their software.

raw_anon_1111 1y ago

Are you complaining that Apple is releasing computers that are fast, quiet and with a ridiculous long battery life that are well built as “not functional”?

encom 1y ago
Apple has famously been form over function almost since their inception.
- samdoesnothing 1y ago
  This is true, with the caveat that their function is also best in class. And I mean yeah, they make gorgeous devices, but even if they were ugly id still choose them because they also work better than any alternatives.
  - frizlab 1y ago
    Well said. (An upvote was not enough.)
  - ffsm8 1y ago
    I use an (at this point older) MacBook pro myself (M1) and honestly believe it is a great product. I am a lot happier with it then if I bought an equivalent windows device. However, its definitely true that Apple prioritizes looks is function. We're just currently in a generation where it ceased to matter for the most part, because Apple Silicon has made the previous tradeoffs basically meaningless. But that's not because Apple started to prioritize function, technology has just gotten good enough for their design philosophy to no longer hamper it significantly
- raw_anon_1111 1y ago
  Again which devices? You’re not an alt for Rob Malda are you wondering why anyone would want an iPod because it had less space than a Nomad and no wireless are you?
wkat4242 1y ago
The keyboards are terrible now, even the ones that went back to the original type after the hell that was butterfly. There's still almost no key travel because Apple is so obsessed with thinness.
- raw_anon_1111 1y ago
  Absolutely no one to a first approximation is complaining about the keyboards since they left the butterfly keyboards even before the ARM transition. These were the same people who (rightfully) criticized the butterfly keyboards left and right.
  - wkat4242 11mo ago
    Maybe people get used to it but I can't. I can't even use the "magic" keyboard. I work with them a lot at work but when I use my MacBook I always use it docked. I just need more key travel. The feel is ok but the travel is not. They were fine until 2015 and I still use the old aluminium keyboard at my desk.

rowanG077 1y ago

I'm not sure that's true. Apple has arguably the best laptops there is in terms of hardware. Making the highest end SoC year after year. That's not operating like a fashion brand.

samdoesnothing 1y ago
Some fashion brands (eg Lulu) make excellent quality products as well. Apple nails both form and function imo.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
type0 1y ago
They are operating as fashion brand, that's why they want to sell you a knitted iPhone Pocket for $230

RossBencina 1y ago

A luxury fashion brand. High quality goods, yet the aesthetics change over time so that the style conscious keep buying the latest to stay on trend. This doesn't apply to all users of course, there are other methods to nudge buying the latest for other personas.

treis 1y ago

I think the HN crowd and the public at large have different ideas of usability. The "I want to save the file on my computer that I own" resonates with us. But there are a lot of advantages to a mobile like experience. There's no viruses, you never lose files, apps don't lock up your device, and so on. The problem isn't really the experience being something like devices as a service. It's that the providers are a rent seeking duopoly.

pluralmonad 1y ago
_Maybe_ no viruses is accurate most of the time, but certainly this cannot be extended to no malware. Mobile platforms are 90% malware/spyware.
- bcrl 1y ago
  It doesn't help that the big tech advertising platforms are making money off pushing ads peddling investment scams and malware. So long as there is a financial incentive to make money in ways that harm "users" things will only get worse. Governments have failed consumers.
- raw_anon_1111 1y ago
  Malware has a specific meaning - that one app can surreptitiously embed itself in your device, cause damage, or exfiltrate your info. I’m not saying there haven’t been vulnerabilities in iOS. But those were bugs that Apple tried to close. For desktop operating systems, giving third party applications that ability is a feature not a bug. Yes I’m including MacOS in that bucket - see Zoom installing a web server on Macs without letting users know.