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The thing with Gaza is that HAMAS there had 20 years of unlimited power, wholly funded by the UN/US/Qatar aid. Gaza literally has no other significant income st

The thing with Gaza is that HAMAS there had 20 years of unlimited power, wholly funded by the UN/US/Qatar aid. Gaza literally has no other significant income streams. HAMAS spent this time to build a network of tunnels below the streets, and to stockpile ammo/explosives. They could care less about the people, using them only as human shields. They also actively brainwashed the population: https://www.ynetnews.com/magazine/article/b1fjucpdgg https://www.ynetnews.com/magazine/article/b1fjucpdgg So what would be a "proportional" answer from Israel? They don't have any good options. > The Isrealli response to those terrorist with guns killing and abducting some of their people, was to flatten and impose collective punishment on the whole country that those people came from. To give you the sense of scale, HAMAS murdered 1195 people, and they also took 250 people as hostages (somehow pro-Palestinian protesters almost never knew about this!). And 1500 people is a HUGE number for a tiny country like Israel (Jewish population of 7200000). Scaled to the size of the US, this would be aroud 70000 people, many times the size of 9/11.

xp84 1y ago
Not to mention that as soon as the IDF pulled out, Hamas immediately started dragging Palestinians out into the streets and publicly executing them for “collaboration” crimes real or imagined. The #1 killer of Palestinians is Hamas itself. It’s pure cowardice that they fight the way they do, mixing all their military equipment with civilian infrastructure like hospitals and schools, and they rely on propagandizing gullible Western liberals (as well as anti-semites) to get support for their murderous cause. There is no way to fight them that doesn’t endanger civilians. And there’s no way for Israeli Jews to continue breathing without fighting Hamas. Anyone who doesn’t believe that is living in a fantasy.
- ebbi 1y ago
  They executed them due to treason, a law that the USA also has. The number of Palestinians executed is far less than those killed by Israeli aggression. Don't minimize the war crimes of Israel. How far is the IDF office from civilian infrastructure? Your comment reeks of propaganda - or severe misinformation at the least.
  - cyberax 1y ago
    > They executed them due to treason, a law that the USA also has. With full legal proceedings, lawyers, appeals, appeals to the European Court of Human Rights, etc.? > The number of Palestinians executed is far less than those killed by Israeli aggression. Don't minimize the war crimes of Israel. Yes, "aggression" that happened on its own, completely unprovoked. But I'm sure that even if Israel had been provoked, then such a lawful and peaceful state as Gaza would have had no problems extraditing all the responsible criminals. Or maybe applying the same death penalty to them? Surely, if they have the death penalty for treason, then they should also have the death penalty for terrorism? > Your comment reeks of propaganda - or severe misinformation at the least. You are seriously justifying rampant murder by terrorists. Sorry, but if this IS what Gaza stands for, then I sure as hell don't want it to be independent.
    - ebbi 1y ago
      > Yes, "aggression" that happened on its own, completely unprovoked. Ahh, propaganda again. You really are a victim of propaganda, or believe history started on Oct 7. Predictable. > You are seriously justifying rampant murder by terrorists. I'd say, and most people around the world, that that's what you're doing. I'm recognizing resistance, and calling out crimes where it occurs. I'm not one to tell oppressed people how to be oppressed, how to be the perfect victims. When you oppress people, it's going to backfire at some point in time. As far as I recall, Hamas has openly called for, and encouraged, third party involvement to investigate any war crimes committed on Oct 7th and to prosecute the perpetrators. Israel? Not so much...
      - AnimalMuppet 1y ago
        > As far as I recall, Hamas has openly called for, and encouraged, third party involvement to investigate any war crimes committed on Oct 7th and to prosecute the perpetrators. Sorry, I'm going to need an actual source before I believe that. ("As far as I recall" is not a source.)
        ebbi 1y ago
Aeolun 1y ago
They murdered 1195 people, and on a country of 7 million? That is terrible you say? How about murdering 17,000 children in a country with a population of 2M total? Does that sound better? Nearly one in 20 people in Gaza was murdered by the Israelli military. That’s an ridiculous number. Since Nazi germany managed about 10% of their occupied population in 5 years, I guess they were right on track to hit those numbers before (can’t believe I’m saying this) Trump thought it was necessary to intervene, whatever his reasons.
- cyberax 1y ago
  Israel did not murder 17000 children.

xp84 1y ago

Not to mention that as soon as the IDF pulled out, Hamas immediately started dragging Palestinians out into the streets and publicly executing them for “collaboration” crimes real or imagined. The #1 killer of Palestinians is Hamas itself. It’s pure cowardice that they fight the way they do, mixing all their military equipment with civilian infrastructure like hospitals and schools, and they rely on propagandizing gullible Western liberals (as well as anti-semites) to get support for their murderous cause. There is no way to fight them that doesn’t endanger civilians. And there’s no way for Israeli Jews to continue breathing without fighting Hamas. Anyone who doesn’t believe that is living in a fantasy.

ebbi 1y ago
They executed them due to treason, a law that the USA also has. The number of Palestinians executed is far less than those killed by Israeli aggression. Don't minimize the war crimes of Israel. How far is the IDF office from civilian infrastructure? Your comment reeks of propaganda - or severe misinformation at the least.
- cyberax 1y ago
  > They executed them due to treason, a law that the USA also has. With full legal proceedings, lawyers, appeals, appeals to the European Court of Human Rights, etc.? > The number of Palestinians executed is far less than those killed by Israeli aggression. Don't minimize the war crimes of Israel. Yes, "aggression" that happened on its own, completely unprovoked. But I'm sure that even if Israel had been provoked, then such a lawful and peaceful state as Gaza would have had no problems extraditing all the responsible criminals. Or maybe applying the same death penalty to them? Surely, if they have the death penalty for treason, then they should also have the death penalty for terrorism? > Your comment reeks of propaganda - or severe misinformation at the least. You are seriously justifying rampant murder by terrorists. Sorry, but if this IS what Gaza stands for, then I sure as hell don't want it to be independent.
  - ebbi 1y ago
    > Yes, "aggression" that happened on its own, completely unprovoked. Ahh, propaganda again. You really are a victim of propaganda, or believe history started on Oct 7. Predictable. > You are seriously justifying rampant murder by terrorists. I'd say, and most people around the world, that that's what you're doing. I'm recognizing resistance, and calling out crimes where it occurs. I'm not one to tell oppressed people how to be oppressed, how to be the perfect victims. When you oppress people, it's going to backfire at some point in time. As far as I recall, Hamas has openly called for, and encouraged, third party involvement to investigate any war crimes committed on Oct 7th and to prosecute the perpetrators. Israel? Not so much...
    - AnimalMuppet 1y ago
      > As far as I recall, Hamas has openly called for, and encouraged, third party involvement to investigate any war crimes committed on Oct 7th and to prosecute the perpetrators. Sorry, I'm going to need an actual source before I believe that. ("As far as I recall" is not a source.)
      - ebbi 1y ago

Aeolun 1y ago

They murdered 1195 people, and on a country of 7 million? That is terrible you say? How about murdering 17,000 children in a country with a population of 2M total? Does that sound better? Nearly one in 20 people in Gaza was murdered by the Israelli military. That’s an ridiculous number. Since Nazi germany managed about 10% of their occupied population in 5 years, I guess they were right on track to hit those numbers before (can’t believe I’m saying this) Trump thought it was necessary to intervene, whatever his reasons.

cyberax 1y ago
Israel did not murder 17000 children.