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And we can't trust the Pentago anymore, so the circle is completed (see the recent "Ukraine deal" which is basically just a sell-out toward the USA allying with

And we can't trust the Pentago anymore, so the circle is completed (see the recent "Ukraine deal" which is basically just a sell-out toward the USA allying with Russia).

nine_k 11mo ago
But was that "deal" even produced in the Pentagon? We can't trust the current White House anymore, but this was known since late 2024.
- tjpnz 11mo ago
  Written by The Kremlin, Jared Kushner and a Florida property developer (in that order).
- terminalshort 11mo ago
  You only stopped trusting the government in 2024?
  - Y-bar 11mo ago
    Few things in life are binary. I think for many it went from passive scepticism to active distrust.
  - nine_k 11mo ago
    There are typical politicians, and there is Trump. It's like Disney cartoons vs South Park.
- qingcharles 11mo ago
  One study said the English language in the plan was likely written by a Russian native.
  - rich_sasha 11mo ago
    That is darkly amusing. My personal bet was either on an intern or ChatGPT.
  - MomsAVoxell 11mo ago
    Nothing says "empire treating everyone else like serfs" like expecting a peace plan between two foreign nations being written in proper English and not the mother tongue of the parties involved. Do you not see the irony in this? "The two of you should make peace in our language, or it's fake." Even if the argument is made that the USA is involved in the war and should be a party to the plan (it "isn't", except "it is"), the peace plan should've been written in Ukrainian and Russian, and only then translated to English as appropriate. Seriously, that this is even being considered as a detractor from peace is highly specious. Perhaps you should point out that the language of the peace plan wasn't written in Ukrainian, translated into Russian, and then into English. That'd probably be acceptable, right?
baiac 11mo ago
Can you explain why you think that deal is selling out? It seems reasonable from the point of view of the United States given they don’t want to pour more money into a conflict they don’t really care too much about. Surely there are some lessons learnt from the “war on terror”
- herbst 11mo ago
  For not caring to much, they try to take a lot of influence in a conflict that's not theirs
  - baiac 11mo ago
    I suppose they have responsibilities as members of NATO. Europe has been completely incapable of stopping the conflict.
    - herbst 11mo ago
      Is that something trump is saying or is that an actual fact? It's hard to tell the difference these days ... And from my stupid European mind this is not at all how things happened. Also the conflict still didn't stop, I don't see how America is somehow more capable of doing something when they didn't do anything?
      - baiac 11mo ago
        Nowhere in my comment did I say that the conflict has stopped. But Europe is the most interested party in this conflict and they haven’t come up with any reasonable proposition to end it. It’s good that someone with power is proposing something workable.
        mcphage 11mo ago
        > It’s good that someone with power is proposing something workable. But not reasonable.
    - 11mo ago
terminalshort 11mo ago
But if we could actually ally with Russia against China that would be a massive strategic win. Russia is: 1. A massive nuclear power 2. On the border of China 3. Willing to take risks for geopolitical gain that the Europeans would never dream of 4. A natural enemy of China since China claims (unofficially) large areas of Siberia including Vladivostok (their only major port on the Pacific). If Russia were an ally, that would put our alliance to the north, east, and south of China. More importantly it would put the threat of a land based attack on the table which is currently not the case.
- cynicalsecurity 11mo ago
  It would be amusing if US seriously contemplated allying with Japan against Germany during the WWII. If you want to ally with Russia, you must destroy the Russian Imperialist regime first, represented by Putin and FSB. Ukraine is helping with that. Then free and democratic Russia will become your ally. But if you don't crush the Russian imperialists, they will crush you.
  - terminalshort 11mo ago
    What has that got to do with anything? Japan is on the other side of the world from Germany. Not a particularly useful ally. And whether or not a country is an ally is entirely dependent on alignment of interests. Democracy doesn't have the slightest thing to do with it.
- tokai 11mo ago
  Russia is also a failing state with a crumbling economy and a demographic disaster unfolding, that is having issues pushing further than 50kms from its borders in a land war with the poorest European nation. They would only be a liability in a conflict against China.
  - terminalshort 11mo ago
    Opening another front is never a liability, even if your ally is losing on that front it consumes resources of your enemy.

And we can't trust the Pentago anymore, so the circle is completed (see the recent "Ukraine deal" which is basically just a sell-out toward the USA allying with Russia).

nine_k 11mo ago

But was that "deal" even produced in the Pentagon? We can't trust the current White House anymore, but this was known since late 2024.

tjpnz 11mo ago
Written by The Kremlin, Jared Kushner and a Florida property developer (in that order).
terminalshort 11mo ago
You only stopped trusting the government in 2024?
- Y-bar 11mo ago
  Few things in life are binary. I think for many it went from passive scepticism to active distrust.
- nine_k 11mo ago
  There are typical politicians, and there is Trump. It's like Disney cartoons vs South Park.
qingcharles 11mo ago
One study said the English language in the plan was likely written by a Russian native.
- rich_sasha 11mo ago
  That is darkly amusing. My personal bet was either on an intern or ChatGPT.
- MomsAVoxell 11mo ago
  Nothing says "empire treating everyone else like serfs" like expecting a peace plan between two foreign nations being written in proper English and not the mother tongue of the parties involved. Do you not see the irony in this? "The two of you should make peace in our language, or it's fake." Even if the argument is made that the USA is involved in the war and should be a party to the plan (it "isn't", except "it is"), the peace plan should've been written in Ukrainian and Russian, and only then translated to English as appropriate. Seriously, that this is even being considered as a detractor from peace is highly specious. Perhaps you should point out that the language of the peace plan wasn't written in Ukrainian, translated into Russian, and then into English. That'd probably be acceptable, right?

baiac 11mo ago

Can you explain why you think that deal is selling out? It seems reasonable from the point of view of the United States given they don’t want to pour more money into a conflict they don’t really care too much about. Surely there are some lessons learnt from the “war on terror”

herbst 11mo ago
For not caring to much, they try to take a lot of influence in a conflict that's not theirs
- baiac 11mo ago
  I suppose they have responsibilities as members of NATO. Europe has been completely incapable of stopping the conflict.
  - herbst 11mo ago
    Is that something trump is saying or is that an actual fact? It's hard to tell the difference these days ... And from my stupid European mind this is not at all how things happened. Also the conflict still didn't stop, I don't see how America is somehow more capable of doing something when they didn't do anything?
    - baiac 11mo ago
      Nowhere in my comment did I say that the conflict has stopped. But Europe is the most interested party in this conflict and they haven’t come up with any reasonable proposition to end it. It’s good that someone with power is proposing something workable.
      - mcphage 11mo ago
        > It’s good that someone with power is proposing something workable. But not reasonable.
  - 11mo ago

terminalshort 11mo ago

But if we could actually ally with Russia against China that would be a massive strategic win. Russia is: 1. A massive nuclear power 2. On the border of China 3. Willing to take risks for geopolitical gain that the Europeans would never dream of 4. A natural enemy of China since China claims (unofficially) large areas of Siberia including Vladivostok (their only major port on the Pacific). If Russia were an ally, that would put our alliance to the north, east, and south of China. More importantly it would put the threat of a land based attack on the table which is currently not the case.

cynicalsecurity 11mo ago
It would be amusing if US seriously contemplated allying with Japan against Germany during the WWII. If you want to ally with Russia, you must destroy the Russian Imperialist regime first, represented by Putin and FSB. Ukraine is helping with that. Then free and democratic Russia will become your ally. But if you don't crush the Russian imperialists, they will crush you.
- terminalshort 11mo ago
  What has that got to do with anything? Japan is on the other side of the world from Germany. Not a particularly useful ally. And whether or not a country is an ally is entirely dependent on alignment of interests. Democracy doesn't have the slightest thing to do with it.
tokai 11mo ago
Russia is also a failing state with a crumbling economy and a demographic disaster unfolding, that is having issues pushing further than 50kms from its borders in a land war with the poorest European nation. They would only be a liability in a conflict against China.
- terminalshort 11mo ago
  Opening another front is never a liability, even if your ally is losing on that front it consumes resources of your enemy.