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pet peeve - pick one: "How the Atomic Tests Looked from Los Angeles" or "What the Atomic Tests Looked Like from Los Angeles" just don't mash them together l

pet peeve - pick one: "How the Atomic Tests Looked from Los Angeles" or "What the Atomic Tests Looked Like from Los Angeles" just don't mash them together like this.

noman-land 11mo ago
This is a pretty common construction among some non-native English speakers.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
brettermeier 11mo ago
Thanks for pointing that out. As a non-native speaker, I have learned something new.
Intermernet 11mo ago
Hey, don't go off of the topic. No need to loose your mind! I could probably get you some counselling for cheap!
- technothrasher 11mo ago
  > Hey, don't go off of the[sic] topic. No need to loose[sic] your mind! I could probably get you some counselling[sic] for cheap! Are you purposely trying to drive people crazy?
  - fragmede 11mo ago
    Eye don't no, our ewe?
  - Intermernet 11mo ago
    Yes, but you missed "for cheap" ;-)
tcgv 11mo ago
Explanation for non-native speakers (like me) who didn't know the rule: The words "how" and "like" clash because "How" already implies manner or appearance, making the addition of "like" (which serves a similar function with "what") superfluous.
- sillyfluke 11mo ago
  Hah, this reminds me of the Isaac Asimov story about catching Nazi spies inflitrating the US... Given Americans' general indifference to perfect grammer, if it "sounds" right they usually don't make a fuss. So they might have learned something new as well.
  - keiferski 11mo ago
    I haven’t read the Asimov story, but it was probably based on this true event: As a result, U.S. troops began asking other soldiers questions that they felt only Americans would know the answers to in order to flush out the German infiltrators, which included naming state capitals, sports and trivia questions related to the U.S., etc. This practice resulted in Brigadier General Bruce C. Clarke being held at gunpoint for some time after he incorrectly said the Chicago Cubs were in the American League[7][8][9][10] and a captain spending a week in detention after he was caught wearing German boots. General Omar Bradley was repeatedly stopped in his staff car by checkpoint guards who seemed to enjoy asking him such questions. The Skorzeny commando paranoia also contributed to numerous instances of mistaken identity. All over the Ardennes, U.S. soldiers attempted to persuade suspicious U.S. military policemen that they were genuine GIs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Greif https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Greif
    - alistairSH 11mo ago
      Ugh, I'd fail any questions based on US sports. And, these days, 30 years removed high school civics, I'd likely miss some of the state capitals as well.
    - sillyfluke 11mo ago
      Close and possibly inspired by it, but it's the reverse idea though -- that no real American would actually know all the words to the national anthem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Refuge_Could_Save https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Refuge_Could_Save
MeteorMarc 11mo ago
Also, the atoms do not need tests, they have functioned reliably for billions of years.
- wat10000 11mo ago
  The plutonium atoms in the bombs were pretty new and rather unreliable.
happytoexplain 11mo ago
"How ___ like" is probably the single most common mistake I see among non-native speakers. Also, unlike other mistakes which can just sound informal, this one "sounds dumb", to use a mean phrase, but it's good to know for people trying to sound proper.
- TurkTurkleton 11mo ago
  As a native English speaker who learned a foreign language (German) in high school, I have a pet theory about this, which is that I suspect most other languages use a word roughly equivalent to English "appear" (with which it would be correct to use "how", such as "how the atomic tests appeared from Los Angeles") even in colloquial speech, whereas English tends to reserve those synonyms for more formal registers of speech; in casual conversation in English, you wouldn't ask someone "how did he appear?" (unless you meant the other sense of "appear", as in "become visible"), but you would in, say, German (wie hat er ausgesehen? or wie sah er aus?). Of course, I'm sure learners of English as a foreign language are taught to say "what does he look like?" and not "how does he look like?", but I can imagine them struggling with remembering that just like I struggle with remembering genders and cases and declined forms in German.
gpderetta 11mo ago
As a non-native speaker, TIL. Then again, my brain tries to complete the sentence as "Atomic Test-and-Set".
pinkmuffinere 11mo ago
This is also a pet peeve of mine. However, I suspect this bothers us because we’ve grown up with standard “western” English (US/UK/Canada/Australia/etc). “How does X Y like” is common in other forms of English, some of which might even be native (but non-western)! For example, I bet this construction is standard in Indian English. Based on population alone, I think this is a losing battle; English is probably going to adopt the structure we dislike. That’s unfortunate for me and you. But I think fighting it is a fool’s errand.
- biff1 11mo ago
  Because westerners are out numbered or because we embrace an ethic that is self deprecating? Connect the dots.
  - pinkmuffinere 11mo ago
    Because the conventions that are considered “standard” evolve over time to match the most common usage. Non-western English is probably already the most common English, due to India alone. Those speaking patterns have been relatively isolated so far, but online media brings it into the mainstream. My main claim is that it will take over the present “standard” usage, because of the sheer quantity (but not in an alarmist xenophobic way, lol). Some examples that have become normalized for me personally, I think due to working with lots of international folks in tech: - “i have a doubt” instead of “i have a question” - “i will not claim X” instead of “i would not claim X” or “i don’t claim X” - “this is not as X as compared with Y” instead of “this is not as X as Y” or “this is not X compared with Y” - "it will anyways be fun" instead of "anyways, it will be fun" I’m not sure if these are broad patterns, or just peculiarities of the specific crowd i hang with. And I don’t think these are standard usages yet, but I’ve become familiar enough that I say these sometimes, despite intuitively feeling that they are wrong. Edit: i think most of the phrases i have adopted are from Indian English, but unsure.
    - biff1 11mo ago
      If it’s the quantity, wouldn’t people just drop English all to gather? (I’m not a proscriptivist for the record, but I do like some non-English languages more than others. Hopefully that’s not too verboten to confess here lol.)
fortyseven 11mo ago
I suspect this was an editing error versus a conscious choice. That is to say I'm betting that "How" came from a prior revision and they published it before realizing the error. I've done this myself too often. ;D

pet peeve - pick one: "How the Atomic Tests Looked from Los Angeles" or "What the Atomic Tests Looked Like from Los Angeles" just don't mash them together like this.

noman-land 11mo ago

This is a pretty common construction among some non-native English speakers.

deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]

brettermeier 11mo ago

Thanks for pointing that out. As a non-native speaker, I have learned something new.

Intermernet 11mo ago

Hey, don't go off of the topic. No need to loose your mind! I could probably get you some counselling for cheap!

technothrasher 11mo ago
> Hey, don't go off of the[sic] topic. No need to loose[sic] your mind! I could probably get you some counselling[sic] for cheap! Are you purposely trying to drive people crazy?
- fragmede 11mo ago
  Eye don't no, our ewe?
- Intermernet 11mo ago
  Yes, but you missed "for cheap" ;-)

tcgv 11mo ago

Explanation for non-native speakers (like me) who didn't know the rule: The words "how" and "like" clash because "How" already implies manner or appearance, making the addition of "like" (which serves a similar function with "what") superfluous.

sillyfluke 11mo ago
Hah, this reminds me of the Isaac Asimov story about catching Nazi spies inflitrating the US... Given Americans' general indifference to perfect grammer, if it "sounds" right they usually don't make a fuss. So they might have learned something new as well.
- keiferski 11mo ago
  I haven’t read the Asimov story, but it was probably based on this true event: As a result, U.S. troops began asking other soldiers questions that they felt only Americans would know the answers to in order to flush out the German infiltrators, which included naming state capitals, sports and trivia questions related to the U.S., etc. This practice resulted in Brigadier General Bruce C. Clarke being held at gunpoint for some time after he incorrectly said the Chicago Cubs were in the American League[7][8][9][10] and a captain spending a week in detention after he was caught wearing German boots. General Omar Bradley was repeatedly stopped in his staff car by checkpoint guards who seemed to enjoy asking him such questions. The Skorzeny commando paranoia also contributed to numerous instances of mistaken identity. All over the Ardennes, U.S. soldiers attempted to persuade suspicious U.S. military policemen that they were genuine GIs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Greif https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Greif
  - alistairSH 11mo ago
    Ugh, I'd fail any questions based on US sports. And, these days, 30 years removed high school civics, I'd likely miss some of the state capitals as well.
  - sillyfluke 11mo ago
    Close and possibly inspired by it, but it's the reverse idea though -- that no real American would actually know all the words to the national anthem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Refuge_Could_Save https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Refuge_Could_Save

MeteorMarc 11mo ago

Also, the atoms do not need tests, they have functioned reliably for billions of years.

wat10000 11mo ago
The plutonium atoms in the bombs were pretty new and rather unreliable.

happytoexplain 11mo ago

"How ___ like" is probably the single most common mistake I see among non-native speakers. Also, unlike other mistakes which can just sound informal, this one "sounds dumb", to use a mean phrase, but it's good to know for people trying to sound proper.

TurkTurkleton 11mo ago
As a native English speaker who learned a foreign language (German) in high school, I have a pet theory about this, which is that I suspect most other languages use a word roughly equivalent to English "appear" (with which it would be correct to use "how", such as "how the atomic tests appeared from Los Angeles") even in colloquial speech, whereas English tends to reserve those synonyms for more formal registers of speech; in casual conversation in English, you wouldn't ask someone "how did he appear?" (unless you meant the other sense of "appear", as in "become visible"), but you would in, say, German (wie hat er ausgesehen? or wie sah er aus?). Of course, I'm sure learners of English as a foreign language are taught to say "what does he look like?" and not "how does he look like?", but I can imagine them struggling with remembering that just like I struggle with remembering genders and cases and declined forms in German.

gpderetta 11mo ago

As a non-native speaker, TIL. Then again, my brain tries to complete the sentence as "Atomic Test-and-Set".

pinkmuffinere 11mo ago

This is also a pet peeve of mine. However, I suspect this bothers us because we’ve grown up with standard “western” English (US/UK/Canada/Australia/etc). “How does X Y like” is common in other forms of English, some of which might even be native (but non-western)! For example, I bet this construction is standard in Indian English. Based on population alone, I think this is a losing battle; English is probably going to adopt the structure we dislike. That’s unfortunate for me and you. But I think fighting it is a fool’s errand.

biff1 11mo ago
Because westerners are out numbered or because we embrace an ethic that is self deprecating? Connect the dots.
- pinkmuffinere 11mo ago
  Because the conventions that are considered “standard” evolve over time to match the most common usage. Non-western English is probably already the most common English, due to India alone. Those speaking patterns have been relatively isolated so far, but online media brings it into the mainstream. My main claim is that it will take over the present “standard” usage, because of the sheer quantity (but not in an alarmist xenophobic way, lol). Some examples that have become normalized for me personally, I think due to working with lots of international folks in tech: - “i have a doubt” instead of “i have a question” - “i will not claim X” instead of “i would not claim X” or “i don’t claim X” - “this is not as X as compared with Y” instead of “this is not as X as Y” or “this is not X compared with Y” - "it will anyways be fun" instead of "anyways, it will be fun" I’m not sure if these are broad patterns, or just peculiarities of the specific crowd i hang with. And I don’t think these are standard usages yet, but I’ve become familiar enough that I say these sometimes, despite intuitively feeling that they are wrong. Edit: i think most of the phrases i have adopted are from Indian English, but unsure.
  - biff1 11mo ago
    If it’s the quantity, wouldn’t people just drop English all to gather? (I’m not a proscriptivist for the record, but I do like some non-English languages more than others. Hopefully that’s not too verboten to confess here lol.)

fortyseven 11mo ago

I suspect this was an editing error versus a conscious choice. That is to say I'm betting that "How" came from a prior revision and they published it before realizing the error. I've done this myself too often. ;D