5 ms·

> pushing borderline indoctrination of controversial, left-ish values Which values? I haven't gone to school in a long time.

squigz 11mo ago
I'm very curious about this as well, GP, please.
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
VohuMana 11mo ago
I am very curious too, I’ve asked this to other friends who have mentioned the same thing and the only concrete answer I have got so far was teaching the theory of evolution and climate change.
- MathMonkeyMan 11mo ago
  It's usually evolution or sex or race or something like that. One of my friends was home schooled. It was at least partly about religious values, but I think it was also partly about him being a bit of a strange kid and getting along better at home. He went back to public schools in middle school, and that was real rough but I think he was happy by the time he got to high school. I'm sure there are many reasons to home school, but the one I hear about most is religious.
andrewmlevy 11mo ago
Lots of examples, gender identity and requiring ethnic studies (focusing on white male privilege, settler/colonial, putting groups into binary oppressor/oppressed). Also issues with requiring those classes vs not.
- voxl 11mo ago
  These are two indisputable facts about our world, if you disagree you are wrong and anti-science: 1. Gender is a social construct 2. Whiteness is a social construct and in particular has been used as a bludgeon against minority "non-whites" in the United States for a very long time If you do not believe these things you are the problem. You lack education. You lack critical thinking. You are brainwashed.
  - alimina 11mo ago
    Both of these social constructs must be challenged. The first is used to oppress women and girls primarily, and the second underpins racist oppression.
    - voxl 11mo ago
      Of course, I agree. But in the context of education if you reject the above (which MANY people on HN do) then you're delusional. There is nothing nice I have to say about it, and I know how dearly the HN crowd loves to clutch their pearls about the tone. It is akin to believing the world is flat, a broken ideology that should not be entertained. Once you accept the simple facts as above, then you can finally explore the consequences.
  - abbycurtis33 11mo ago
    Gender is obvious and unchangeable. Everything else is a mental health issue, and truly sad.
- dfxm12 11mo ago
  You've identified examples of values, but you have forgotten to link them to the left, forgotten to show if they are controversial and, probably most importantly, forgotten to show how schools are borderline pushing indoctrination of them.
  - abbycurtis33 11mo ago
    Each of those is well within public knowledge.
    - ryandrake 11mo ago
      In other words, "Trust me, bro!"
- throwaway-11-1 11mo ago
  Literally nobody forces groups into a good/bad binary more than conservatives. What an embarrassing lack of self awareness (source: I went to a conservative christian school)
obscurette 11mo ago
Not a GP and I don't know if any of these qualifies as "left-ish" (which is very US specific IMHO), but as I understand, the education all over the western culture is destroyed by few really simple and really crazy (for me) ideas: - Kids are never responsible for anything. - Teachers are responsible for everything.
- ilikecakeandpie 11mo ago
  That's a parenting problem though, not an education problem, right?
  - obscurette 11mo ago
    Actually no. The problem comes from society. If you think that kids should be responsible for anything, you are a bad person. If you think that kids should be punished if they do something really bad, you are a monster. Here we had a case teenagers bullying their teacher – abused her verbally during school, posted deepfake revenge porn into internet, stole stuff from her garden etc. She cried for help and the case was investigated by commission that included people from people from ministry of education, police and psychologists. But the commission concluded that she was the problem – she lacked the skills to build a trusting relationship with kids.
o11c 11mo ago
From the Conservative part of my social group, the main one applicable here is pushing elementary school kids to identify as trans. Because young children are very impressionable, and it is forbidden for staff to push back on on it at all, despite the science saying "there is absolutely no such thing as trans before age 12, and much possibility of social trauma from attempting it". Left-ish people tend to say "this doesn't happen in the real world, it's made up for internet arguments" - and I even said that for a while on this and a few other subjects - but that denial cannot survive extensive contact with the real world.
- squigz 11mo ago
  Why age 12?
  - o11c 11mo ago
    Age 12 happens to be the cutoff used in the scientific studies.
    - squigz 11mo ago
      And the conclusion to draw from that is that one absolutely cannot be trans under the age of 12?
      - o11c 11mo ago
        To avoid arguments about the definition of "be", the clear conclusion is that if it exists it's indistinguishable prior to that age, so any claims before that age can only be considered noise. It's critical to remember that "reality has a liberal bias" does not mean "literally every detail of things liberals say is reality".
        squigz 11mo ago
        > the clear conclusion is that if it exists it's indistinguishable prior to that age How is that clear? How would we know if it's indistinguishable if your studies didn't even look?

squigz 11mo ago

I'm very curious about this as well, GP, please.

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

VohuMana 11mo ago

I am very curious too, I’ve asked this to other friends who have mentioned the same thing and the only concrete answer I have got so far was teaching the theory of evolution and climate change.

MathMonkeyMan 11mo ago
It's usually evolution or sex or race or something like that. One of my friends was home schooled. It was at least partly about religious values, but I think it was also partly about him being a bit of a strange kid and getting along better at home. He went back to public schools in middle school, and that was real rough but I think he was happy by the time he got to high school. I'm sure there are many reasons to home school, but the one I hear about most is religious.

andrewmlevy 11mo ago

Lots of examples, gender identity and requiring ethnic studies (focusing on white male privilege, settler/colonial, putting groups into binary oppressor/oppressed). Also issues with requiring those classes vs not.

voxl 11mo ago
These are two indisputable facts about our world, if you disagree you are wrong and anti-science: 1. Gender is a social construct 2. Whiteness is a social construct and in particular has been used as a bludgeon against minority "non-whites" in the United States for a very long time If you do not believe these things you are the problem. You lack education. You lack critical thinking. You are brainwashed.
- alimina 11mo ago
  Both of these social constructs must be challenged. The first is used to oppress women and girls primarily, and the second underpins racist oppression.
  - voxl 11mo ago
    Of course, I agree. But in the context of education if you reject the above (which MANY people on HN do) then you're delusional. There is nothing nice I have to say about it, and I know how dearly the HN crowd loves to clutch their pearls about the tone. It is akin to believing the world is flat, a broken ideology that should not be entertained. Once you accept the simple facts as above, then you can finally explore the consequences.
- abbycurtis33 11mo ago
  Gender is obvious and unchangeable. Everything else is a mental health issue, and truly sad.
dfxm12 11mo ago
You've identified examples of values, but you have forgotten to link them to the left, forgotten to show if they are controversial and, probably most importantly, forgotten to show how schools are borderline pushing indoctrination of them.
- abbycurtis33 11mo ago
  Each of those is well within public knowledge.
  - ryandrake 11mo ago
    In other words, "Trust me, bro!"
throwaway-11-1 11mo ago
Literally nobody forces groups into a good/bad binary more than conservatives. What an embarrassing lack of self awareness (source: I went to a conservative christian school)

obscurette 11mo ago

Not a GP and I don't know if any of these qualifies as "left-ish" (which is very US specific IMHO), but as I understand, the education all over the western culture is destroyed by few really simple and really crazy (for me) ideas: - Kids are never responsible for anything. - Teachers are responsible for everything.

ilikecakeandpie 11mo ago
That's a parenting problem though, not an education problem, right?
- obscurette 11mo ago
  Actually no. The problem comes from society. If you think that kids should be responsible for anything, you are a bad person. If you think that kids should be punished if they do something really bad, you are a monster. Here we had a case teenagers bullying their teacher – abused her verbally during school, posted deepfake revenge porn into internet, stole stuff from her garden etc. She cried for help and the case was investigated by commission that included people from people from ministry of education, police and psychologists. But the commission concluded that she was the problem – she lacked the skills to build a trusting relationship with kids.

o11c 11mo ago

From the Conservative part of my social group, the main one applicable here is pushing elementary school kids to identify as trans. Because young children are very impressionable, and it is forbidden for staff to push back on on it at all, despite the science saying "there is absolutely no such thing as trans before age 12, and much possibility of social trauma from attempting it". Left-ish people tend to say "this doesn't happen in the real world, it's made up for internet arguments" - and I even said that for a while on this and a few other subjects - but that denial cannot survive extensive contact with the real world.

squigz 11mo ago
Why age 12?
- o11c 11mo ago
  Age 12 happens to be the cutoff used in the scientific studies.
  - squigz 11mo ago
    And the conclusion to draw from that is that one absolutely cannot be trans under the age of 12?
    - o11c 11mo ago
      To avoid arguments about the definition of "be", the clear conclusion is that if it exists it's indistinguishable prior to that age, so any claims before that age can only be considered noise. It's critical to remember that "reality has a liberal bias" does not mean "literally every detail of things liberals say is reality".
      - squigz 11mo ago
        > the clear conclusion is that if it exists it's indistinguishable prior to that age How is that clear? How would we know if it's indistinguishable if your studies didn't even look?