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Could it be that this process needs to be running in a secure enclave

by bitpush 11mo ago

arghwhat 11mo ago
No, not at all. Someone even implemented AirDrop in Python before[1]. In fact, nothing ever needs such special hardware. It's a decision of the implementer if they'd like to get fancy and rely on such hardware in their implementation to change its security profile, but the iPhone at the other end or any Apple infrastructure would be none the wiser - they just see that they're getting appropriately signed or encrypted, and neither knows nor cares how that came to be. Use of a hardware security module would just make the process more tamper resistant but would not otherwise change the outcome. 1. https://github.com/seemoo-lab/opendrop https://github.com/seemoo-lab/opendrop
- walletdrainer 11mo ago
  Relies on OWL which does have specific hardware requirements
  - wtallis 11mo ago
    No, OWL only appears to have specific driver requirements, namely that they expose to userspace functionality that any remotely modern WiFi chip should already have.
    - e44858 11mo ago
      "you will need a Wi-Fi card supporting active monitor mode with frame injection" https://github.com/seemoo-lab/owl https://github.com/seemoo-lab/owl
      - wtallis 11mo ago
        Yeah, I saw that. I'm pretty sure that's a statement more about the drivers than the underlying hardware. Open-source drivers often have more limited feature support than the underlying hardware. I doubt anyone is producing WiFi chips that cannot transmit arbitrary software-constructed WiFi frames, or capture and relay to software all the frames they hear, and ACK frames as needed while doing so. But it's very easy to imagine that some of those capabilities would not be publicly documented, or not enabled with the default firmware provided to end users. Those limitations that hinder Linux end-users tinkering with their machines don't necessarily apply to an OS vendor with a deep partnership with the relevant hardware vendors.
        leo60228 11mo ago
        Active monitor mode doesn't allow using AWDL while staying connected to a regular Wi-Fi network. That needs special firmware support.
  - arghwhat 11mo ago
    It requires WiFi active monitor mode, which is a standard chipset feature. Nothing related to custom silicon, secure enclave, hardware acceleration or other such shenanigans being brought up in the current conversation, and nothing that most android phones wouldn't fully support.

Could it be that this process needs to be running in a secure enclave

by bitpush 11mo ago

Could it be that this process needs to be running in a secure enclave

No, not at all. Someone even implemented AirDrop in Python before[1]. In fact, nothing ever needs such special hardware. It's a decision of the implementer if they'd like to get fancy and rely on such hardware in their implementation to change its security profile, but the iPhone at the other end or any Apple infrastructure would be none the wiser - they just see that they're getting appropriately signed or encrypted, and neither knows nor cares how that came to be. Use of a hardware security module would just make the process more tamper resistant but would not otherwise change the outcome. 1. https://github.com/seemoo-lab/opendrop https://github.com/seemoo-lab/opendrop

walletdrainer 11mo ago
Relies on OWL which does have specific hardware requirements
- wtallis 11mo ago
  No, OWL only appears to have specific driver requirements, namely that they expose to userspace functionality that any remotely modern WiFi chip should already have.
  - e44858 11mo ago
    "you will need a Wi-Fi card supporting active monitor mode with frame injection" https://github.com/seemoo-lab/owl https://github.com/seemoo-lab/owl
    - wtallis 11mo ago
      Yeah, I saw that. I'm pretty sure that's a statement more about the drivers than the underlying hardware. Open-source drivers often have more limited feature support than the underlying hardware. I doubt anyone is producing WiFi chips that cannot transmit arbitrary software-constructed WiFi frames, or capture and relay to software all the frames they hear, and ACK frames as needed while doing so. But it's very easy to imagine that some of those capabilities would not be publicly documented, or not enabled with the default firmware provided to end users. Those limitations that hinder Linux end-users tinkering with their machines don't necessarily apply to an OS vendor with a deep partnership with the relevant hardware vendors.
      - leo60228 11mo ago
        Active monitor mode doesn't allow using AWDL while staying connected to a regular Wi-Fi network. That needs special firmware support.
- arghwhat 11mo ago
  It requires WiFi active monitor mode, which is a standard chipset feature. Nothing related to custom silicon, secure enclave, hardware acceleration or other such shenanigans being brought up in the current conversation, and nothing that most android phones wouldn't fully support.