6 ms·
France is taking state actions against GrapheneOS?
- kridsdale1 11mo agoWow, that guy in the thread attacking them is an asshole.
- frenchie4111 11mo agoDoes it read like AI slop to anybody else?
- WJW 11mo agoMostly just reads like a mentally ill person to me TBH. Don't see why you'd think it was AI.
- Jean-Michelgos 11mo agoI thought that the question was actually really good, the existence of news articles doesn't really demonstrate state action... Edit: the news article don't mention legal action being started or being prepared...
- dingdingdang 11mo agoOr simply.. drumroll.. THE STATE
- LadyCailin 11mo agoOr maybe a pervert.
- lovich 11mo agoHe made a stronger claim later on by dropping the “maybe”
- grimblee 11mo agoIt's an AI bot, not a human
- 4ndrewl 11mo agoThe newspaper article referenced contains insinuation (linking GrapheneOS to the darkweb, criminal gangs etc), and unnamed sources quoting a police investigation. But that sort of thing sells newspapers. There didn't appear to be anything about the French state taking specific action (eg passing a law) against Graphene.
- chris_wot 11mo agoIf they consider the country is making laws they can't accept, then the honourable thing is to no longer allow participation within that country.
- metadope 11mo agoThe honourable thing? More importantly this is the smart choice, the only thing, to do: Shake the dust from your sandals, walk away, don't look back. This is the ongoing horror of the overbearing state, which wants to rule efficiently by knowing everything that everybody is doing all the time. Those who focus on and value law enforcement before freedom.
- mmooss 11mo ago> This What? What is the French state doing in this case?
- betaby 11mo agoOwners of those newspapers are or were politicians. I would call that a politically motivated action against GrapheneOS.
- mmooss 11mo agoThat doesn't follow: It's not their only motivation, nor are the author and editor drones who follow this one motivation. People can write politically motivated things on HN too. That is very different than a law enforcement action of the government.
- hopelite 11mo agoIs it just a coincidence that the recent action against archive.today and all its other TLDs is also based out of France? It also at least tangentially involves state action against an element outside of state control, i.e., being able to keep records out of the regime memory hole. I did not follow up with whether there was any kind of understanding or resolution of what was going on with the Archive situation, but it seems oddly coincidental that these types of actions would be going on effectively simultaneously.
- temptemptemp111 11mo ago[dead]
- Mond_ 11mo agoWhat is wrong with that guy in the comments shouting? Christ on a stick, this is the worst crash out I've seen over something like this
- jddj 11mo agoIt speaks to the medium that someone shouting nonsense can absorb so much of the thread
- gowld 11mo agoDoes mastodon or whatever that UI is not have a way to block someone from appearing on the main commenter's own feed? This thread is hosted on GrapheneOS's server so I'd assume GrapheneOS team could block multimilliardaire https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115584160910016309 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115584160910016309
- nomilk 11mo agoOn most platforms if a post's author replies to a reply, that will boost it above others. Admittedly I don't use mastodon and can't spot how many replies that post actually received (I see 25 boosts, 0 quotes, 21 favourites, but not the number of replies/comments)
- jddj 11mo agoThis would make sense. And would make their repeatly taking the bait even more regrettable
- 65 11mo agoGoes to show the fundamental UX design flaws of Mastodon and Twitter. If it were on Hacker News or Reddit it would be instantly downvoted. Even if the OP replied to the comment, it would still be buried. But because of how Mastodon and Twitter are designed, if the OP replies it will get amplified.
- strcat 11mo ago
- caminanteblanco 11mo agoThe referenced article: http://archive.today/I65wv http://archive.today/I65wv
- strcat 11mo agoWe weren't given a chance to see what was being claimed and properly respond to it. Our response at the end of the article was to this prompt, which was in the first and only email we received, in English: > I am preparing an article on the use of your secure personal data phone solution by drug traffickers and other criminals. Have you ever been contacted by the police? The claims in the main story strongly indicate they're not talking about GrapheneOS itself but rather companies selling closed source forks of it with significant modifications. They refer to features which don't exist in GrapheneOS. Supposedly GrapheneOS which is freely available from https://grapheneos.org/install/web https://grapheneos.org/install/web and https://grapheneos.org/releases https://grapheneos.org/releases with sources on GitHub is distributed on the "dark web" and promoted via unlisted YouTube videos. They're clearly conflating products which market themselves by saying they're using GrapheneOS with the upstream project those are forked from. These are largely sketchy products and we regularly have to deal with them infringing on our copyright and trademarks. One of these companies marketing products claiming to use GrapheneOS, ANOM, turned out to be a company run by the FBI as a sting operation which was hiring criminals to sell phones to other criminals. ANOM told people what they were getting was GrapheneOS when it was actually a mix of GrapheneOS and LineageOS code. The FBI was broadly facilitating crime in Europe by providing them devices they considered secure and safe to use while disregarding most of it to avoid exposing their operation. They were also misusing our brand and harming our reputation us through this. A lot of the claimed criminal usage was directly engineered by the FBI. A detailed podcast episode on this: https://darknetdiaries.com/transcript/146/ https://darknetdiaries.com/transcript/146/ There's also this second article from the same paper containing the explicit threat referred to in our posts: https://archive.is/UrlvK https://archive.is/UrlvK It says that if we don't cooperate, they'll take similar actions against us they did against 2 named secure phone companies. Those actions were taking over their servers and criminal charges. It's clear what they want is a backdoor to have access to devices they're unable to exploit due to the advanced exploit protections. They're threatening that if this is not provided, they'll go after us as they did companies they said were collaborating with criminals. They likely consider providing freely available open source software which anyone can use for any purpose to be collaborating with criminals. The main result will be OVH losing our business to a Toronto colocation provider for important non-static content (discussion forum, email, Matrix, Mastodon, attestation service), Vultr (American) for our anycast DNS + exotic webserver locations, Netcup (German) and perhaps another 1-2 companies for NA/EU web servers where Vultr is extremely overpriced due to double the costs for the same specs and metered bandwidth (it's great for exotic locations and BGP support for our anycast though). There's another article here, but the paywall isn't bypassed by archive sites (we've read it though): https://archive.is/FBc1U https://archive.is/FBc1U
- max_ 11mo agoThis hostility towards privacy all over the world signals that there is a co-ordinated change happening in the world. Unfortunately we still don't know what it is or what its goals are.
- IlikeKitties 11mo agoIt's palantir.
- wotusay 11mo ago[dead]
- danparsonson 11mo agoAuthoritarianism is doing well all over; it doesn't have to be deliberately coordinated, so much as people being basically the same everywhere, and the world sharing some serious problems. What works in one country works in almost any other.
- potatopan 11mo agoOn the one hand this its true that monkey see means monkey can do.. On the other, all the nationalists started meeting up with each other internationally and in public because hypocritical cynicism is apparently so hot now that you can be a xenophobe who worships foreigners as long as they are more impressive xenophobes.
- boxedemp 11mo agoSpecifically, we don't know the goals. Generally, we know it's about control and fear of losing power. It's a stolen quote but rings true: Those with power fear one thing above all else; losing said power.
- elcritch 11mo agoAs another aspect we're seeing governments and the system elites craving for more power and control than ever. I know it's borderline conspiracy theorist but I fear that the COVID-19 lockdowns with the surveillance systems and control gained during them gave the elites worldwide a taste for new levels of power and control. All in the name of doing it for our own good of course. But ultimately its for more power. What terrors man won't inflict on others for "their own good".
- tonyhart7 11mo agoGrapheneOS is a project with really good intentions, and we should definitely give them credit. But here’s the thing: criminals end up exploiting tech like this, and that makes the project an easy target for law enforcement. We’ve seen the exact same thing happen with crypto. We need to just accept that any technology designed for security and privacy is always going to be a double-edged sword.
- IlikeKitties 11mo ago> We need to just accept that any technology designed for security and privacy is always going to be a double-edged sword. I agree, therefore it should be my legal right to use such technology. Like a 2A for encryption and privacy
- Iolaum 11mo agoThe problem is not that security solutions are a double edged sword, it's that such solutions stop mass surveillance. When Ross Ulbricht was arrested, they made sure to do it in a way that they got access to his laptop while logged in. I'm sure competent investigators can figure out the login method used daily by someone on their phone if they follow them because they are committing a crime. Just like they did with Ulbricht. But they can't do that for everyone whenever they feel like it, and that's the problem.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- stego-tech 11mo agoAnother empire throwing a tantrum because it believes itself to be bigger than its citizenry. Lot of that going around lately, but still no real state actors seemingly willing to give sanctuary to these sorts of security and privacy projects beyond Switzerland, and even they seem keen on weakening protections. If I had Android, I’d absolutely be using GrapheneOS.
- aussieguy1234 11mo agoSince smartphones were invented, seizing a persons phone and going through their private life on it has become a substitute for real police work. Of course they will hate it if a particular OS and phone combination make this impossible.
- metadope 11mo agoI confess I haven't paid much attention to privacy issues in my laziness and indifference over the years. But as I witness the development of escalating violations of personal space and the invasive seizures of sensitive data by corporations and governments and random script kiddies employed for their demolition skills, I am resolving, here and now, to stop shaking my fist at the clouds and yelling to Get Off My Lawn. Coincidentally, I just bought an old Pixel on eBay today. Because it had GrapheneOS already installed. My interest in privacy is growing, but I confess I was mostly motivated by an admiration for the GrapheneOS project... They're really good at what they're doing, and they are swamped with work, and attacked by bots, weirdos and authoritarian speculators. And, because I want to sport that monochromatic minimalist interface. Maybe I'll come out of my cocoon to pitch in.
- Itoldmyselfso 11mo agoI hope you used their Auditor app to check the validity of that GOS installation.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- anthk 11mo agoLiberté, Egalité, Fraternité, but just for a few. Remember the French goverment banning encryption in the 90's. The French elite hates science and math because it was modernly developed by the Brits, and they love to put Arts/Humanities bullshitters like Derrida on top as if they mattered something over Francis Bacon and Newton. Just watch any TF1 talk show and you'll understand what I mean. Or, well, any state supported Homeopathy based "pills" (which is mostly snake oil being sold as sugar). Or the Sokal affair... I can go on and on...
- rockinghigh 11mo agoFrance does not reimburse homeopathic treatments anymore. The NHS in the UK went even further, they funded homeopathic hospitals like the Royal London Homeopathic Hospital and reimbursed homeopathy until 2017.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- neilv 11mo ago> > I am preparing an article on the use of your secure personal data phone solution by drug traffickers and other criminals. I think GrapheneOS needs a really good PR expert volunteer, or funding to pay for a non-volunteer. My non-PR-expert guesses are... If the journalist is in bad faith or flaky, that might need to be handled. But if the journalist is in good faith, this might be an opportunity, to promote GrapheneOS and/or to start to head off adverse gov't actions there. (GrapheneOS does some great technical work, and has given me what seems to be a more respectful and trustworthy smartphone than I could get from Apple or Google. Right now, I'd think many countries in Europe and elsewhere should be looking at something like GrapheneOS as a possible interim measure on their way to greater digital sovereignty. I understand that the French people especially value liberty.)
- charcircuit 11mo agoNo, one should never ever talk to journalists. Nothing good can come from it. Never assume good faith from journalists.
- kayodelycaon 11mo agoHaving helped run a furry convention, there are times you need to talk to members of the media. Otherwise, you have zero input in the narrative. If you make the response boring or used a canned legalish message, it doesn’t allow them to say you didn’t talk to them. A better rule is: don’t let anyone untrained talk to journalists.
- charcircuit 11mo agoThe narrative already gets decided ahead of time and often there is nothing you can do to change it. In my opinion it's better to accelerate the distrust of journalists.
- kayodelycaon 11mo agoThe general idea of the narrative might be set, but many times I see a company’s response in the story. You usually have some influence. Enough people are smart enough to read between the lines to make it worth trying. Perfect example: I had to fire someone from staff rather promptly. The reasons were serious even that not responding to questions in timely manner would have been a fatal error for the convention. Unfortunately, there are times you can’t opt out of the game because opting out is a response. Silence will be misconstrued as support.
- Ms-J 11mo agoFrance has been authoritarian against secure or private software for some time now. Veracrypt stopped development in France and moved TLD's to .jp (though they also physically moved).
- ummmzokbro 11mo agoAlways impressed by GrapheneOS social media painstakingly dealing with these trolls. For those without time the link they post to a 3rd party comparison of Android based OSes is very enlightening: https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm
- disambiguation 11mo agoThat's a hell of an endorsement by the French govt. I use GOS as a daily driver and it's fantastic - it's what android was supposed to be before it enshittified. It's refreshing to feel like i control my smart phone again and not the other way around.
- rich_sasha 11mo agoIt's funny. It just struck me that the EU is uniquely well positioned to develop an alternative to Android and iOS. Start with one of the open source projects - I guess an Android derivative, sans all the Google stuff. Give them funding, maybe regulate (that always helps). Then mandate that within X years, various key apps must provide for this system - things like bank apps, state admin apps etc. In high likelihood, development would be close enough to Android that it would not be a crazy high burden - and anyway, it seems most people use cross platform frameworks. EU could regulate, or influence via ownership, privacy controls better tailored to European tastes. That would give the EU a dose of digital sovereignty without doing much, and ensuring some degree of usability. It's a shame that instead GrapheneOS seems to get sued.