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Small government without control of who comes in is borderline anarchy, and they never claimed to be for anarchy. Small government internally requires border co

Small government without control of who comes in is borderline anarchy, and they never claimed to be for anarchy. Small government internally requires border controls, and if the border controls failed in the past do you expect them to just shrug? I can see disagreeing with them, easily, I just don’t see obvious hypocrisy like you are suggesting.

praptak 11mo ago
Small government without [big thing I happen to like] is [bad thing] therefore it's okay to make the government big in [the aspects I like] and I don't see any hipocrisy in that.
ActorNightly 11mo ago
Its been proven many times over that the majority of "illegal" immigrants, whether they come US and either overstay their allowance, or manage to skirt by on refugee status, are all predominately doing it for financial reasons, willing to work jobs for lower pay that Americans will never do, which is a huge benefit for economy. This idea that border control somehow failed is a lie sold to you by republicans. Also Trump killed the CBP funding bill in early 2024 that would have addressed a lot of issues.
- newfriend 11mo ago
  > willing to work jobs for lower pay that Americans will never do, which is a huge benefit for economy. Pushing wages down for low-skilled work is possibly good for the economy, but it's very bad for low-skilled American workers. > This idea that border control somehow failed is a lie sold to you by republicans. There are millions of illegal aliens in the US. From 2021 to 2024, several millions more entered the US. > Also Trump killed the CBP funding bill in early 2024 that would have addressed a lot of issues. Conjecture. Trump was not in office in 2024. That bill may or may not have addressed some issues, while also creating new issues or making things worse.
  - ActorNightly 11mo ago
    >Pushing wages down for low-skilled work is possibly good for the economy, but it's very bad for low-skilled American workers. Thats why minimum wage laws specifically exist. Everybody wins. >There are millions of illegal aliens in the US. From 2021 to 2024, several millions more entered the US. The border bill that Trump killed would have increased funding to CBP to speed up the process of determining who is fit to stay and who isn't because so many people were entering that there wasn't enough staff to process cases quicker. >Conjecture. Nice try lol. I know yall LOVE to rewrite history, but that doesn't fly anymore. Everything is on record on why Republicans voted against it.
    - newfriend 11mo ago
      Illegal aliens operate outside of minimum wage laws obviously. Yes that is one of the things that bill would have done, along with hundreds of other things which may or may not have been beneficial or detrimental. And again, Trump didn't kill anything. He was not in office. There were many criticisms of that bill on its merits. The criticisms are on record as you said https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf4EzoWR944 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf4EzoWR944 > In this video, several Republican Senators express their blunt dismissal of the so-called "bipartisan" border security bill, highlighting their reasons for opposition and their dissatisfaction with the negotiation process and their leadership.
      - ActorNightly 11mo ago
        Just in case it wasn't clear from my last comment, because you don't live the same reality as I do, we can't have a conversation. Trump did kill the bill, no matter what you believe, and you lack the critical thinking skills (or too blinded by ideology), to understand this. Hopefully, once US economy tanks, and you lose years of your life due to stress and a good portion of your retirement funds, you will understand this because its impossible for you to learn this any other way.
        newfriend 11mo ago
- nomdep 11mo ago
  > willing to work jobs for lower pay that Americans will never do WTF? So your arguments is that stealing American jobs and not paying taxes “it’s good for the economy”? Even if that were true, slavery is also “good for the economy”, but that doesn’t make it a good thing
  - FireBeyond 11mo ago
    And yet, while a visa overstay is a misdemeanor, assisting someone to stay or work while unauthorized is a felony, that does more damage to the economy, but this administration seems "remarkably" unwilling to prosecute that. Undocumented Tyson Chicken employees handed over paperwork _from Tyson_ that was given to over 900 of them where the company told them how to fill out government/tax/payroll forms when undocumented so as to stay under the radar... and CBP said that wasn't part of the scope of their investigation into Tyson, and did precisely nothing about that. Hormel, much the same. The bitching and moaning about "the economy" by Republicans is so amazingly selective - it's funny how they focus on that, while ignoring how _awfully convenient_ it is to farm, livestock, food production and other employers and businesses it is to have access to that same labor pool.
  - ActorNightly 11mo ago
    [flagged]
    - pfannkuchen 11mo ago
      If you can’t afford to pay enough, you don’t have a viable business. This is a standard argument for minimum wage, which is reasonable, and it applies here as well, no?
      - ActorNightly 11mo ago
        The point is that there isn't a large amount of Americans that are willing to work for minimum wage, because we got used to a standard of living. You aren't going to force people to go to work for minimum wage in positions that are usually taken up by immigrants, because those people already have higher paying jobs - the unemployment (at least pre 2025) was like at an all time low. For economy to be healthy, money has to exchange hands. The more you do this, the better the economy gets. This is why US was so far ahead of other countries because we had way less restrictions on this. And being welcoming to people at all income levels is necessarily a part of this, because at the end of the day, even the fanciest car requires low skilled labor to builds roads for.
int_19h 11mo ago
We're literally discussing a mass surveillance dragnet throughout the country (not just at the border) here; the kind of stuff that is normally reserved for dystopias in fiction. To argue that it is somehow okay because it enables "small government" to exist is very much in the spirit of "war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength". When thugs in uniform stop and interrogate Americans on the roads because their movement patterns are "suspicious", there's nothing small about it.
- pfannkuchen 11mo ago
  I’m not saying it’s okay, but I am not a small government person. Illogical arguments just bother me. I think small government is impossible for other reasons. The republicans have been the party of massive military since forever. I don’t really see how this is different.

praptak 11mo ago

Small government without [big thing I happen to like] is [bad thing] therefore it's okay to make the government big in [the aspects I like] and I don't see any hipocrisy in that.

ActorNightly 11mo ago

Its been proven many times over that the majority of "illegal" immigrants, whether they come US and either overstay their allowance, or manage to skirt by on refugee status, are all predominately doing it for financial reasons, willing to work jobs for lower pay that Americans will never do, which is a huge benefit for economy. This idea that border control somehow failed is a lie sold to you by republicans. Also Trump killed the CBP funding bill in early 2024 that would have addressed a lot of issues.

newfriend 11mo ago
> willing to work jobs for lower pay that Americans will never do, which is a huge benefit for economy. Pushing wages down for low-skilled work is possibly good for the economy, but it's very bad for low-skilled American workers. > This idea that border control somehow failed is a lie sold to you by republicans. There are millions of illegal aliens in the US. From 2021 to 2024, several millions more entered the US. > Also Trump killed the CBP funding bill in early 2024 that would have addressed a lot of issues. Conjecture. Trump was not in office in 2024. That bill may or may not have addressed some issues, while also creating new issues or making things worse.
- ActorNightly 11mo ago
  >Pushing wages down for low-skilled work is possibly good for the economy, but it's very bad for low-skilled American workers. Thats why minimum wage laws specifically exist. Everybody wins. >There are millions of illegal aliens in the US. From 2021 to 2024, several millions more entered the US. The border bill that Trump killed would have increased funding to CBP to speed up the process of determining who is fit to stay and who isn't because so many people were entering that there wasn't enough staff to process cases quicker. >Conjecture. Nice try lol. I know yall LOVE to rewrite history, but that doesn't fly anymore. Everything is on record on why Republicans voted against it.
  - newfriend 11mo ago
    Illegal aliens operate outside of minimum wage laws obviously. Yes that is one of the things that bill would have done, along with hundreds of other things which may or may not have been beneficial or detrimental. And again, Trump didn't kill anything. He was not in office. There were many criticisms of that bill on its merits. The criticisms are on record as you said https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf4EzoWR944 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf4EzoWR944 > In this video, several Republican Senators express their blunt dismissal of the so-called "bipartisan" border security bill, highlighting their reasons for opposition and their dissatisfaction with the negotiation process and their leadership.
    - ActorNightly 11mo ago
      Just in case it wasn't clear from my last comment, because you don't live the same reality as I do, we can't have a conversation. Trump did kill the bill, no matter what you believe, and you lack the critical thinking skills (or too blinded by ideology), to understand this. Hopefully, once US economy tanks, and you lose years of your life due to stress and a good portion of your retirement funds, you will understand this because its impossible for you to learn this any other way.
      - newfriend 11mo ago
nomdep 11mo ago
> willing to work jobs for lower pay that Americans will never do WTF? So your arguments is that stealing American jobs and not paying taxes “it’s good for the economy”? Even if that were true, slavery is also “good for the economy”, but that doesn’t make it a good thing
- FireBeyond 11mo ago
  And yet, while a visa overstay is a misdemeanor, assisting someone to stay or work while unauthorized is a felony, that does more damage to the economy, but this administration seems "remarkably" unwilling to prosecute that. Undocumented Tyson Chicken employees handed over paperwork _from Tyson_ that was given to over 900 of them where the company told them how to fill out government/tax/payroll forms when undocumented so as to stay under the radar... and CBP said that wasn't part of the scope of their investigation into Tyson, and did precisely nothing about that. Hormel, much the same. The bitching and moaning about "the economy" by Republicans is so amazingly selective - it's funny how they focus on that, while ignoring how _awfully convenient_ it is to farm, livestock, food production and other employers and businesses it is to have access to that same labor pool.
- ActorNightly 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - pfannkuchen 11mo ago
    If you can’t afford to pay enough, you don’t have a viable business. This is a standard argument for minimum wage, which is reasonable, and it applies here as well, no?
    - ActorNightly 11mo ago
      The point is that there isn't a large amount of Americans that are willing to work for minimum wage, because we got used to a standard of living. You aren't going to force people to go to work for minimum wage in positions that are usually taken up by immigrants, because those people already have higher paying jobs - the unemployment (at least pre 2025) was like at an all time low. For economy to be healthy, money has to exchange hands. The more you do this, the better the economy gets. This is why US was so far ahead of other countries because we had way less restrictions on this. And being welcoming to people at all income levels is necessarily a part of this, because at the end of the day, even the fanciest car requires low skilled labor to builds roads for.

int_19h 11mo ago

We're literally discussing a mass surveillance dragnet throughout the country (not just at the border) here; the kind of stuff that is normally reserved for dystopias in fiction. To argue that it is somehow okay because it enables "small government" to exist is very much in the spirit of "war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength". When thugs in uniform stop and interrogate Americans on the roads because their movement patterns are "suspicious", there's nothing small about it.

pfannkuchen 11mo ago
I’m not saying it’s okay, but I am not a small government person. Illogical arguments just bother me. I think small government is impossible for other reasons. The republicans have been the party of massive military since forever. I don’t really see how this is different.