5 ms·

Do you have any particular pieces in mind when you wrote this? Bach is impressive, no doubt, but to each their own perhaps. I acknowledge that I have not recei

Do you have any particular pieces in mind when you wrote this? Bach is impressive, no doubt, but to each their own perhaps. I acknowledge that I have not received the appropriate training to fully appreciate the complexity in his works, so I wish I could hear what you do. To my ear, (and this isn't a novel opinion in the slightest), I think the Baroque era was more limited in expression due to the inherent limitations in the instruments and consequent styles at the time. Within those constraints, calling Bach an absolute titan of composition would be an understatement. But one wonders what he could have made without those constraints.

mitthrowaway2 11mo ago
I'm not the GP but I can recommend Bach's Partita in D minor, said to have been composed after returning from travel to find that his wife had died and been buried in his absence. https://youtu.be/VfwVim0EybY https://youtu.be/VfwVim0EybY Brahms said of it: "On one stave, for a small instrument, the man writes a whole world of the deepest thoughts and most powerful feelings. If I imagined that I could have created, even conceived the piece, I am quite certain that the excess of excitement and earth-shattering experience would have driven me out of my mind."
- cons0le 11mo ago
  best version here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZFOhkGGr8A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZFOhkGGr8A
  - mitthrowaway2 11mo ago
    That's a completely different piece, but also beautiful!
poly2it 11mo ago
You should listen to Hilary Hahn's renditions of Bach's partitas and sonatas. She brings out the subtleties of Bach's composing beautifully, and the purity of his music is easy to appreciate in these solo pieces. https://inv.nadeko.net/playlist?list=PLor_18TcpRrxQmne5_SKRyMvrLD74j-K5 https://inv.nadeko.net/playlist?list=PLor_18TcpRrxQmne5_SKRy... (YouTube proxy)
- cons0le 11mo ago
  Lately lots of japanese players have been tearing it up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZFOhkGGr8A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZFOhkGGr8A
- scns 11mo ago
  > You should listen to Hilary Hahn's Absolutely > renditions of Bach's partitas and sonatas. Don't think so. Her recordings of his violin concerts on the other hand are able to clearly show his genius due to the more complex orchestration and interplay between the different instruments.
  - poly2it 11mo ago
    I mean, I enjoy them too. Good mention. I had a feeling the parent wasn't a fan of the baroque counterpoint, and the violin concertos feature more of that.
lordleft 11mo ago
Sure! When I think of why I love Bach, I often think of works where he demonstrates an ability to express often conflicting emotions at the same time. For example, in St. Mathew’s Passion, there’s a famous piece entitled “Mache Dich, Mein Herze” — it’s sung at a part where the followers of Christ are laying his body to rest, and somehow merges genuine despair with hope, representing the promise of resurrection. I think his ability to represent despair and hope at the same time is pretty extraordinary. Other pieces I love are the 3rd and 5th Brandenburg concertos, as well as “Wachet Auf”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgXL_wrSPF0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgXL_wrSPF0 No shade if he still doesn’t click with you. I’m just particularly ardent on the subject of Bach and baroque music!
- lo_zamoyski 11mo ago
  I presume you know Zelenka as well, a contemporary of Bach's (both knew each other and respected each other as composers).
  - 1718627440 11mo ago
    There were a lot of these components in middle Germany at that time. Basically every reigning dynasty employed one, and there were a lot of those. They aren't famous now, but Bach wasn't famous at that time either. That he is famous now, is due to Mendelsohn.
    - 1718627440 11mo ago
      s/components/composers/
  - inglor_cz 11mo ago
    Jan Dismas Zelenka wrote for the Saxon king, and many of his works were never released as a result. Then, they burnt to ashes in 1945. The only extant copies were caught in the bombing of Dresden. We tend to think of "lost works" as something that happened in Antiquity. Nope.
    - 11mo ago
thinkingtoilet 11mo ago
This is only scratching the surface but I will present one of his most famous pieces to people who might ask why something like this is said. Keep in mind this was written 300 years ago. That's 300. fucking. years. ago. Think about how dated something from the 80s might sound. How modern does this sound? How completely universal is it's beauty? To me, this could have been written today and still sound fresh and beautiful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWoI8vmE8bI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWoI8vmE8bI This piece is still deeply moving despite centuries of tastes changing. This is only barely scratching the surface of Bach. As a musician, when I listen to other great musicians speak, they all speak about Bach as the best. Of course that's subjective, and there are no 'wrong' answers on who is your favorite, but when the feeling is so nearly unanimous amount people who are often, frankly, contrarian and counter culture it says something.
- bombcar 11mo ago
  Bach is still found even in modern music - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2puubv2e0L4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2puubv2e0L4
dylan604 11mo ago
> But one wonders what he could have made without those constraints. I had a friend that said if Mozart/Bach/et al had access to modern music production equipment, they'd all write psytrance. But it is just another example of "take great talent from long ago and put them in modern day" comparisons.
PotatoPancakes 11mo ago
Bach's most approachable music might be his cello suites. But also, I think there are two camps of fans of "classical music" (by which I mean music in the styles: Baroque, Classical, Romantic, Impressionist, etc). There are those who listen to the music, and those who play it. For the most part, those who only listen to music often prefer Romantic and Impressionist styles. From the moody and dramatic to the gentle and contemplative, these styles are very approachable to the untrained ear. But those who play an instrument (or sing in a choir) spend lots of time practicing and rehearsing and interpreting the music as it's written on the page. This extra time makes all of the little nuances of Baroque music truly come to life. The classic example is Bach's Crab Canon, which is a fine little piece of music... but once you realize that the whole thing is a palindrome, and you can actively appreciate how the same parts work in a forward and backward context, it becomes really interesting and pleasant. So if Bach doesn't do it for you, and you play an instrument, try diving into playing it yourself.
- reactordev 11mo ago
  I cut my teeth on Bach on Cello when I was 7. By the time I was in high school I could play all the instruments. I still don’t consider Bach to be the genius everyone says he was. He was a nepo baby with a big purse. His brothers, his family, all musicians of note for prominent figures of society. However, his leaning on his long history of music within the family helped polish his work as structured which helped sell it. Now, Jean-Babtiste Lully was a character…
  - Aidevah 11mo ago
    >He was a nepo baby with a big purse. Interesting interpretation of "he was orphaned at 10 and left with nothing and had to go and live with his brother".
    - reactordev 11mo ago
      His father had lots of children, 4 of which became musicians, of which JSB was the last child, the baby. Barbara Margaretha tried to take the family purse (having already been twice widowed). JSB was “orphaned” but his older brothers were adults. Let’s be real. (Who gets married and dies 3 months later?)
tetraodonpuffer 11mo ago
when it comes to Bach I am surprised more people don't mention pieces like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsxP-YjDWlQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsxP-YjDWlQ (arioso from the cantata 156, here for oboe) which I think stands up just fine against pretty much any other classical piece baroque or not. Personally I have a very big soft spot for his organ works, as I play (badly) some organ myself, and among those I don't see the trio sonatas recommended nearly often enough (here is a live recital of all of them, which is super impressive) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK9irE8LMAU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK9irE8LMAU among those I probably enjoy the most the vivace of BWV 530. Other favorite pieces are the passacaglia and fugue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVoFLM_BDgs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVoFLM_BDgs the toccata adagio and fugue in C major https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klh9GiWMc9U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klh9GiWMc9U (the adagio especially is super nice), but there's so many. Among organists I often come back to Helmut Walcha, and am always amazed at how he was able to learn everything just by listening, him being blind.
- bathMarm0t 11mo ago
  If you're going to give them the triosonatas, you gotta give them the good one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOTtDYTc5JY&list=PLCDB42413B27B2525 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOTtDYTc5JY&list=PLCDB42413B... Put on a good set of headphones and go sit in the corner. Also obligatory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah392lnFHxM&list=RDAh392lnFHxM&start_radio=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah392lnFHxM&list=RDAh392lnFH... The thing I appericiate most about bach is: you can play it fast. you can play it slow. you can play it with an ensemble of random instruments. you can play a single voicing all by itself. all of it screams "musical". which, if you do play say, Tuba, or one of the larger instruments, is a godsend, as most of your lines in other pieces will bore you to death.
  - Tokkemon 11mo ago
    Nice to see the Zenph recording get some love. It's such a fascinating process they had to do. It's way better than the original Gould recordings with all his singing along.
  - 11mo ago
Tokkemon 11mo ago
The Cantatas. All of them.
cons0le 11mo ago
Try this one on for size https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce8CDz9PUfs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce8CDz9PUfs
biophysboy 11mo ago
I would highly recommend listening to any of his fugues. The great thing about them is you do not need any training to appreciate the complexity. All you need to do is listen to the starting melody. That melody will repeat itself again and again, if you listen closely. It will harmonize with itself as more voices are added. It will be modulated into different keys and durations. In a way, you can kind of think of Bach as the first electronic musician, in the sense that his works consist of "discrete tracks" that get layered on to each other. I'm sure there are youtube videos out there that demonstrate this visually.
orlp 11mo ago
> Do you have any particular pieces in mind when you wrote this? (not me, but...) Bach - Passacaglia & Fugue in C minor, BWV 582 > But one wonders what he could have made without those constraints. Bach-Busoni - Chaconne from Partita No. 2 in D minor, BWV 1004

mitthrowaway2 11mo ago

I'm not the GP but I can recommend Bach's Partita in D minor, said to have been composed after returning from travel to find that his wife had died and been buried in his absence. https://youtu.be/VfwVim0EybY https://youtu.be/VfwVim0EybY Brahms said of it: "On one stave, for a small instrument, the man writes a whole world of the deepest thoughts and most powerful feelings. If I imagined that I could have created, even conceived the piece, I am quite certain that the excess of excitement and earth-shattering experience would have driven me out of my mind."

cons0le 11mo ago
best version here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZFOhkGGr8A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZFOhkGGr8A
- mitthrowaway2 11mo ago
  That's a completely different piece, but also beautiful!

poly2it 11mo ago

You should listen to Hilary Hahn's renditions of Bach's partitas and sonatas. She brings out the subtleties of Bach's composing beautifully, and the purity of his music is easy to appreciate in these solo pieces. https://inv.nadeko.net/playlist?list=PLor_18TcpRrxQmne5_SKRyMvrLD74j-K5 https://inv.nadeko.net/playlist?list=PLor_18TcpRrxQmne5_SKRy... (YouTube proxy)

cons0le 11mo ago
Lately lots of japanese players have been tearing it up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZFOhkGGr8A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZFOhkGGr8A
scns 11mo ago
> You should listen to Hilary Hahn's Absolutely > renditions of Bach's partitas and sonatas. Don't think so. Her recordings of his violin concerts on the other hand are able to clearly show his genius due to the more complex orchestration and interplay between the different instruments.
- poly2it 11mo ago
  I mean, I enjoy them too. Good mention. I had a feeling the parent wasn't a fan of the baroque counterpoint, and the violin concertos feature more of that.

lordleft 11mo ago

Sure! When I think of why I love Bach, I often think of works where he demonstrates an ability to express often conflicting emotions at the same time. For example, in St. Mathew’s Passion, there’s a famous piece entitled “Mache Dich, Mein Herze” — it’s sung at a part where the followers of Christ are laying his body to rest, and somehow merges genuine despair with hope, representing the promise of resurrection. I think his ability to represent despair and hope at the same time is pretty extraordinary. Other pieces I love are the 3rd and 5th Brandenburg concertos, as well as “Wachet Auf”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgXL_wrSPF0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgXL_wrSPF0 No shade if he still doesn’t click with you. I’m just particularly ardent on the subject of Bach and baroque music!

lo_zamoyski 11mo ago
I presume you know Zelenka as well, a contemporary of Bach's (both knew each other and respected each other as composers).
- 1718627440 11mo ago
  There were a lot of these components in middle Germany at that time. Basically every reigning dynasty employed one, and there were a lot of those. They aren't famous now, but Bach wasn't famous at that time either. That he is famous now, is due to Mendelsohn.
  - 1718627440 11mo ago
    s/components/composers/
- inglor_cz 11mo ago
  Jan Dismas Zelenka wrote for the Saxon king, and many of his works were never released as a result. Then, they burnt to ashes in 1945. The only extant copies were caught in the bombing of Dresden. We tend to think of "lost works" as something that happened in Antiquity. Nope.
  - 11mo ago

thinkingtoilet 11mo ago

This is only scratching the surface but I will present one of his most famous pieces to people who might ask why something like this is said. Keep in mind this was written 300 years ago. That's 300. fucking. years. ago. Think about how dated something from the 80s might sound. How modern does this sound? How completely universal is it's beauty? To me, this could have been written today and still sound fresh and beautiful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWoI8vmE8bI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWoI8vmE8bI This piece is still deeply moving despite centuries of tastes changing. This is only barely scratching the surface of Bach. As a musician, when I listen to other great musicians speak, they all speak about Bach as the best. Of course that's subjective, and there are no 'wrong' answers on who is your favorite, but when the feeling is so nearly unanimous amount people who are often, frankly, contrarian and counter culture it says something.

bombcar 11mo ago
Bach is still found even in modern music - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2puubv2e0L4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2puubv2e0L4

dylan604 11mo ago

> But one wonders what he could have made without those constraints. I had a friend that said if Mozart/Bach/et al had access to modern music production equipment, they'd all write psytrance. But it is just another example of "take great talent from long ago and put them in modern day" comparisons.

PotatoPancakes 11mo ago

Bach's most approachable music might be his cello suites. But also, I think there are two camps of fans of "classical music" (by which I mean music in the styles: Baroque, Classical, Romantic, Impressionist, etc). There are those who listen to the music, and those who play it. For the most part, those who only listen to music often prefer Romantic and Impressionist styles. From the moody and dramatic to the gentle and contemplative, these styles are very approachable to the untrained ear. But those who play an instrument (or sing in a choir) spend lots of time practicing and rehearsing and interpreting the music as it's written on the page. This extra time makes all of the little nuances of Baroque music truly come to life. The classic example is Bach's Crab Canon, which is a fine little piece of music... but once you realize that the whole thing is a palindrome, and you can actively appreciate how the same parts work in a forward and backward context, it becomes really interesting and pleasant. So if Bach doesn't do it for you, and you play an instrument, try diving into playing it yourself.

reactordev 11mo ago
I cut my teeth on Bach on Cello when I was 7. By the time I was in high school I could play all the instruments. I still don’t consider Bach to be the genius everyone says he was. He was a nepo baby with a big purse. His brothers, his family, all musicians of note for prominent figures of society. However, his leaning on his long history of music within the family helped polish his work as structured which helped sell it. Now, Jean-Babtiste Lully was a character…
- Aidevah 11mo ago
  >He was a nepo baby with a big purse. Interesting interpretation of "he was orphaned at 10 and left with nothing and had to go and live with his brother".
  - reactordev 11mo ago
    His father had lots of children, 4 of which became musicians, of which JSB was the last child, the baby. Barbara Margaretha tried to take the family purse (having already been twice widowed). JSB was “orphaned” but his older brothers were adults. Let’s be real. (Who gets married and dies 3 months later?)

tetraodonpuffer 11mo ago

when it comes to Bach I am surprised more people don't mention pieces like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsxP-YjDWlQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsxP-YjDWlQ (arioso from the cantata 156, here for oboe) which I think stands up just fine against pretty much any other classical piece baroque or not. Personally I have a very big soft spot for his organ works, as I play (badly) some organ myself, and among those I don't see the trio sonatas recommended nearly often enough (here is a live recital of all of them, which is super impressive) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK9irE8LMAU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK9irE8LMAU among those I probably enjoy the most the vivace of BWV 530. Other favorite pieces are the passacaglia and fugue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVoFLM_BDgs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVoFLM_BDgs the toccata adagio and fugue in C major https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klh9GiWMc9U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klh9GiWMc9U (the adagio especially is super nice), but there's so many. Among organists I often come back to Helmut Walcha, and am always amazed at how he was able to learn everything just by listening, him being blind.

bathMarm0t 11mo ago
If you're going to give them the triosonatas, you gotta give them the good one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOTtDYTc5JY&list=PLCDB42413B27B2525 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOTtDYTc5JY&list=PLCDB42413B... Put on a good set of headphones and go sit in the corner. Also obligatory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah392lnFHxM&list=RDAh392lnFHxM&start_radio=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah392lnFHxM&list=RDAh392lnFH... The thing I appericiate most about bach is: you can play it fast. you can play it slow. you can play it with an ensemble of random instruments. you can play a single voicing all by itself. all of it screams "musical". which, if you do play say, Tuba, or one of the larger instruments, is a godsend, as most of your lines in other pieces will bore you to death.
- Tokkemon 11mo ago
  Nice to see the Zenph recording get some love. It's such a fascinating process they had to do. It's way better than the original Gould recordings with all his singing along.
- 11mo ago

Tokkemon 11mo ago

The Cantatas. All of them.

cons0le 11mo ago

Try this one on for size https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce8CDz9PUfs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce8CDz9PUfs

biophysboy 11mo ago

I would highly recommend listening to any of his fugues. The great thing about them is you do not need any training to appreciate the complexity. All you need to do is listen to the starting melody. That melody will repeat itself again and again, if you listen closely. It will harmonize with itself as more voices are added. It will be modulated into different keys and durations. In a way, you can kind of think of Bach as the first electronic musician, in the sense that his works consist of "discrete tracks" that get layered on to each other. I'm sure there are youtube videos out there that demonstrate this visually.

orlp 11mo ago

> Do you have any particular pieces in mind when you wrote this? (not me, but...) Bach - Passacaglia & Fugue in C minor, BWV 582 > But one wonders what he could have made without those constraints. Bach-Busoni - Chaconne from Partita No. 2 in D minor, BWV 1004