8 ms·
Basalt Woven Textile
- california-og 1y agoRelated, there's also stone paper: https://stone-paper.nl/en/ https://stone-paper.nl/en/
- MgB2 1y agoWhich is basically HDPE (plastic) foil with limestone filler. And a whole website full of marketing that somehow never mentions that 20% of the material is non-renewable (made from petroleum products) and not biodegradable.
- california-og 1y agoIt does mention it pretty clearly in the "what is stone paper" page: https://stone-paper.nl/en/wat-is-stone-paper/ https://stone-paper.nl/en/wat-is-stone-paper/
- MgB2 1y agoYes, they say its HDPE, but then conveniently in all their talk about sustainability, they somehow forget to talk about where HDPE actually comes from. Just that it being composed of carbon and hydrogen somehow makes it "clean". Which, I guess, is something you could also say about things like gasoline. Plastic shopping bags are also made of polyethylene. So are they sustainable as well?
- close04 1y agoIt says what it is in terms like: > mixed with 20% HDPE, a clean plastic composed of carbon and hydrogen
- ninalanyon 1y agoIt's perfectly possible to make polythene from renewable feedstock.
- MgB2 1y agoSure it is. But it's also nowhere near cost competitive and so no one does. They also don't even claim they're using anything else than "normal" HDPE made from ethylene distilled from crude oil.
- imtringued 1y agoThey don't use "normal" HDPE, they use recycled HDPE which means they don't know what's inside their feedstock and it definitively means you can't get rid of the paper by burning it, because you're also burning whatever mystery chemicals remain inside.
- namibj 1y agoWe know how to turn air into HDPE. It's just energetically stupid as long as we feed the electricity grid with fossil (hydro) carbon.
- bayindirh 1y agoThe premise is nice, but downsides noted in another comment, usability is also a problem. It's much heavier than a normal notebook, and the surface is basically an extremely fine grit sandpaper. It works great with pencils and ballpoints, but wetter pens (gel, rollerball) do not dry as quick. Also, forget fountain pens. You'll be eating away your nib as I write on that paper. I have a couple of these notebooks, but they sit unused for now.
- kragen 1y agoLimestone itself is not hard enough to wear down metal pen nibs, but "stone paper" does slightly polish them, presumably due to impurities in the limestone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbqxasFZwsI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbqxasFZwsI
- bayindirh 1y agoThe amount of polish is dependent on the tipping alloy of the particular nib. For example Lamy’s tipping alloy is softer than others, so that polishing becomes excessive to the point of changing nib size. I have an old safari which writes broad after ten years of use (the nib is marked medium). Pilot and Sailor uses harder tipping alloys. Schmidt is also harder than Lamy, but softer than Japanese counterparts. (Yes, I have a lot of pens for quite some time :) )
- kragen 1y agoAre you saying you've been using "stone paper" for ten years? Or are you getting this polishing from the sizing agents and random contamination on real paper?
- bayindirh 1y agoNo, I get the polishing from normal, yet high quality paper. Think Rhodia or similar class, not Tomoe River or similar. I deliberately polished a nib once, on rough brown paper. Not Lamy, but a Pilot Metropolitan. You can polish a Lamy by regularly using it. It becomes evident in a couple of months, and becomes buttery smooth in a year. No special treatment is necessary.
- ghurtado 1y agoWe've come around full circle, I suppose
- mmoustafa 1y agoScissors has entered the chat
- kragen 1y agoThat is completely unrelated.
- amarant 1y agoThis newfangled "rockpaper" really complicates the rules of my favourite game.
- smlacy 1y agoIsn't this basically fiberglass?
- bennyfreshness 1y agoBasalt is stronger than glass fibers (made from silica / quartz / sand), but not as strong as carbon fiber. Also, its more expensive than glass, but less expensive than carbon. Generally considered eco friendly. Interestingly where carbon fiber's failure mode is instant, failing catastrophically (like say chalk), basalt will be more gradual (like say wood), in some use cases that's an advantage. Overall though its still not mass produced, uncertain if it will ever reach scale. If interested in fibers and composites, the YouTube channel Easy Composites is really interesting / educational. For example you can use flax fiber. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD98L9XlCTU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD98L9XlCTU
- exmadscientist 1y agoIt's a very good alternative to carbon fiber. It also has one very interesting property that carbon fiber doesn't: it's not conductive. This means, for example, that you can put it in an MRI machine and get signal back. You can't do that with carbon fiber, which shields the return RF signals and gives you a dark image, but doesn't damage anything. Basalt weave composites are basically completely transparent on an MRI. (For the same reasons, it also can be microwaved successfully. Carbon fiber can not be microwaved. Do not microwave real carbon fiber or carbon fiber composites.)
- mring33621 1y agoAnd it's kinda pretty!
- rbanffy 1y ago> Interestingly where carbon fiber's failure mode is instant, failing catastrophically (like say chalk), basalt will be more gradual (like say wood), in some use cases that's an advantage. So, should we use it to make a submarine to visit the Titanic?
- kohlerm 1y agoI think I have seen it being used in Snowboards
- superkuh 1y agoIn-situ produced basalt fiber reinforced butyl rubber is likely to be one of the major building materials on Mars or the asteroids if humans ever get there.
- jabl 1y agoI can understand basalt, as that is abundant on Mars. But butyl rubber, from where do you get that? Synthetize from CO2 in the atmosphere might work on Mars but on an Asteroid? But if you go through the route of synthetizing from CO2, why butyl rubber and not some other hydrocarbon?
- adrian_b 1y agoI think that silicone rubber or silicone resins would be much better choices than a butyl rubber for such applications. Not only silicone rubber or resins use much less CO2 and water for fabrication, most of their weight coming from quartz, but they can also be used in a much wider range of temperatures, compatible with that at the surface of Mars (i.e. including very low temperatures and high temperatures). Silicone resins reinforced with glass fiber are a material commonly used where a wide range of operating temperatures is required, so I am pretty sure that they could also be reinforced with basalt fiber.
- jabl 1y agoI found a brief from a research project that studied blends of silicone and butyl rubber for Mars applications at https://science.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/r.anyszka-2023-tech-showcase.pdf?emrc=07f8a3 https://science.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/r.anyszk... Also a more detailed version https://ris.utwente.nl/ws/portalfiles/portal/459340626/RubberWorld_R.Anyszka.pdf https://ris.utwente.nl/ws/portalfiles/portal/459340626/Rubbe... But this seems to be rubber for gaskets, hoses, tires etc. and not fiber reinforced stuff for construction applications.
- kragen 1y agoThat's interesting! I think of butyl rubber as being fairly expensive stuff compared to building materials—here on Earth, construction sand costs maybe 4¢ per kilogram, while polymers typically cost around 200¢ per kilogram. I'm not sure how much to expect that higher cost to transfer to Martian and asteroid ISRU, because I don't really understand where it comes from. Are you thinking that the composite you're describing would have major advantages, even if it's more expensive?
- buggymcbugfix 1y agoNext sewing project: rock pants.
- pfix 1y agoMaybe new dress code for rock concerts
- nycdatasci 1y agoNot rock, but silver-plated and EM-shielding: https://vollebak.com/products/shielding-pants https://vollebak.com/products/shielding-pants
- dist-epoch 1y agoWhat could regular people do with it? Oven gloves? Anti-stab vests? Gloves for working with strong chemicals?
- worthless-trash 1y agoIt will be used for shopping bags.
- kleiba 1y agoBullet-proof living room curtains.
- Modified3019 1y agoA reinforcing fiber to mix with concrete is one. One use that fascinates me is with foamed concrete (literally mixing concrete with a foaming agent) can be used to create cheap lightweight, insulating blocks, slabs or pours. While it shouldn’t be considered “structural” (low compressive strength), it can be quite durable and withstand and dissipate very energetic impacts when blended with chopped fibers (like basalt). The exact use will effect the ultimate blend and resulting density. Not a typical material for sure, but I do see it come up in some countries when someone is having to DIY a lasting shelter. For a lot of situations it’s quite a sensible choice, and much healthier than spray foams. Depending on how open/closed the cells end up and freeze thaw cycles, protection from water saturation may be needed. This combination of materials is also sold as prefabricated bullet stops for training, meant for retaining lead in an alkaline environment: https://www.terrancorp.com/sacon https://www.terrancorp.com/sacon
- noduerme 1y agoIs this any safer than asbestos if it gets broken up?
- pfix 1y agoWikipedia says yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basalt_fiber https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basalt_fiber > The basalt fibers typically have a filament diameter of between 10 and 20 μm which is far enough above the respiratory limit of 5 μm to make basalt fiber a suitable replacement for asbestos. The source mentioned is a basalt fiber brand website, so not sure if that's enough for confidence.
- p0w3n3d 1y agobut still it breaks and gets airborne...
- ahartmetz 1y agoThis still seems iffy, but... broken fibers usually become shorter, not thinner.
- tokai 1y agoThis is the exact way of behaving that facilitate conspiratorial thinking. You could have looked into it. Found sources that covers harmful effects of stone wool. Instead this 'just pointing out' that it might be problematic is lazy, dumb, and potentially destructive.
- codersfocus 1y agoIsn’t Rockwool the unwoven version of this?
- Cthulhu_ 1y agoHad to google it to be sure, but yes, rockwool / mineral wool the insulation material is also made of basalt.
- Xmd5a 1y ago> First the basalt is melted at a temperature of 1,400 °C (2550 °F). The molten rock is then extruded through small nozzles for the production of filaments of basalt fibers. As a 3D-printer user, I flinched.
- endymion-light 1y agocouldn't imagine what the spaghetti looks like
- Gravityloss 1y agoOne could probably add some other minerals to lower the melting temperature. Like is done for regular glass. I am not a chemist but I would assume most likely still way too high for plastic-like temperatures.
- jaggederest 1y agoAs a ceramicist it'd be difficult to 3d print with because the kinds of temperatures you can reach even with heavily fluxed silica is still extremely high. I fire bisque at cone 04 which is approximately 1060C / 1940F and that's considered low fire, only extremely heavily fluxed glazes (usually pure frit or equivalent) melt at that level. Putting 3d printing concepts on the table, though, you could definitely see something like a sintered bed printer using a laser to print it, but then you wouldn't get anything close to the standard FDM style print.
- Gravityloss 1y agoI also assume directional solidification is really important for basalt, like for glass fibers and others. That's hard to achieve for bulk objects but easy for fibers.
- helsinkiandrew 1y agoBasalt Fibre (bonded with recycled PET) is also being used in yacht construction inplace of glass fibre https://www.windelo-catamaran.com/en/recycled-and-biosourced-materials/ https://www.windelo-catamaran.com/en/recycled-and-biosourced...
- DFHippie 1y agoSo there are basalt boats floating on the not so salty Baltic.
- euroderf 1y agoIt's the Basaltic, see?
- CrimsonCape 1y agoLooking at the web page is kinda ironic. A yacht builder proclaiming how much better the materials are for the environment. We could just build less yachts, for example. Nobody needs a yacht. There has to be an interesting commentary here regarding the necessity of productive endeavours that pay taxes and fund local governments and drive investors portfolios into the black, all funded by useless largesse.
- proee 1y agoYachts are not just rich-kid toys. They're useful in supporting ocean research, tourism, transfer vessels, security, etc. It's super cool to find an alternative to fiberglass. Maybe they could be used in wind turbines as well.
- conorcleary 1y agoWell, 'research vessels' don't need to have gold-plated luxuries, etc.
- scarby2 1y agoMany people live on sail yachts. They are a very economical way to live.
- tidbeck 1y agoThis makes me think about Vinylon[1] and this article from Reuters[2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinylon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinylon [2] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/northkorea-vinalon/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/northkor...
- kijin 1y agoVinalon is an organic polymer, like many other synthetic fibers we wear, but derived from coal instead of oil because North Korea has no oil. The basalt fiber OP describes is not organic at all. It sounds more like asbestos actually.
- comradesmith 1y agoYeah, but the vibes are the same as basalt textiles
- tidbeck 1y agoThe Reuters article title is "Fabric made of Stone" (as it is made of coal and limestone), that is why it came to mind.
- metalman 1y agorock wool, and other names are used for basalt fibre insulation, which is quite brittle, and turns to dust with very little manipulation must be produced useing a different chemistry and process, but the same bulk feed stock, which I believe is just a certain type of foundry slag that is dumped in the millions of tons per anum range, while still molten, which is where the incentive comes from to utilise it then and there
- k__ 1y agoSo, I can sew a battle west made of rock?! Finally \../
- maribozu 1y agoI'd guess within a couple of centuries, someone will figure out a material for jeans that doesn't tear between the legs.
- thechao 1y agoJeans never tear in the crotch; they just upgrade to awkwardly constructed kilts.
- kiney 1y agoyet another reason I wear kilts to begin with...
- giraffe_lady 1y agoMore likely we will just remember what our ancestors knew: the crotch of trousers is a wear item and you should plan on maintaining and eventually replacing it.
- IAmBroom 1y agoI wish, but that is not the trend in manufacturing. The LLRU for clothing is the garment itself, these days. (Can sew; choose not to replace buttons generally, because: lazy)
- meindnoch 1y agoAsbestos 2.0?
- stuaxo 1y agoI imagine this is bad news to breath in?
- IAmBroom 1y agoTrue of all particulates.
- anshulbhide 1y agoWe manufacture cast basalt that's used in applications that have a lot of wear and tear. This is pretty cool to see another application of basalt!
- potato3732842 1y agoRocks (of any type" and "wear and tear" don't really go together in my mind. Is this something on the order of jewel bushings in low speed mechanical clockwork? I can't think of a lot of applications where I'd want any sort of rock as my bearing material but maybe I'm thinking too big.
- Cerium 1y agoNot bearings, this is "wear and tear" as in abrasion resistance. Cast basalt is used to create abrasion resistant pipes and flooring.
- anshulbhide 1y agoYeah, stainless steel pipes are used to carry ash slurry away from thermal power plants (especially in China and India). Cast basalt lining increases the lifetime of the pipes by reducing abrasion.
- margalabargala 1y agoIn the original article, "wear and tear" refers to chemical/corrosion resistance. Considering the reactivity of most textiles compared to something like glass, I would imagine this has tons of utility anywhere you might need a textile in a chemical application.
- guerrilla 1y agoJust answering my own question: Is this be used for bullet proof vests? Heavier than carbon fiber and kevlar with lower tensile strength than both. So, no, not unless it's much cheaper.
- potato3732842 1y agoStuff like this gets used in welding blankets or clothing for people working around hot stuff or insulation on hot bits of machinery. It's supposed to be heat resistant, not strong. <insert meme about bullet proof vests not being fireproof here>
- xeonmc 1y agoI have in mind other uses: how is the stiffness per mass compared to glass and carbon fibre, and mass manufacturability for small parts?
- jdc0589 1y agojust thinking about this makes me itch. A lot of heat wrap for exhaust pipes is made of this stuff. Works pretty well though, just not a ton of fun to work with.
- tech2 1y agoI had wrap from my exhaust system start to unravel at one point during a long journey far from home. I had to unwrap it by hand on the roadside sans-gloves to prevent it from ending up under a wheel and tearing components apart. The end result was that I had to find a local retailer selling duct-tape; Not for the car, but so I could apply segments of it to my skin to pull those tiny irritating fragments free from my inner forearm. Yeah, that itch is evil!
- jdc0589 1y agoI refuse to touch the stuff unless its been soaked in water, and I have gloves
- zoklet-enjoyer 1y agoThis is used in some skateboards and snowboards. Lighter weight, stronger, flexier than wood and doesn't splinter like carbon fiber
- astroflection 1y agoI wonder how long it takes for the basalt glass to begin to crystalize? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devitrification#Devitrification_in_geology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devitrification#Devitrificatio...
- CGMthrowaway 1y agoRockwool is molten basalt /slag spun into wool-like fibers and then bound with resin
- teleforce 1y ago>Basalt fibers also have high electric-insulating characteristics and transparency for electromagnetic radiation. The killer application most probably UAV drone since it's more affordable than carbon fiber. For drone you want lightweight, robust against weather elements and strong material, and at the same has electromagnetic (EM) transparency so not to disturb its wireless control and communication signal. Carbon fiber however, is not EM transparent material.
- Andrew-Tate 1y ago[dead]