4 ms·

I think you missed the sarcasm in the original post ;)

by ivraatiems 11mo ago

CodingJeebus 11mo ago
ah crap, my gullibility strikes again
- ncr100 11mo ago
  <3
- nixosbestos 11mo ago
  Man, it's so understandable. Especially when 35-40% the country is doing exactly that kind of bullshit equivocative defense. Frankly I'm shocked the shitheads usually here read the room and have kept the child-rape apologia to themselves.
acdha 11mo ago
Poe’s law applies too much these days. I’ve tried to get out of the habit of leaving jokes ambiguous like that because it’s just too easy to trip readers up, especially when not everyone has native level awareness of idioms or social context.
- giraffe_lady 11mo ago
  Part of the problem is also frankly that HN has a culture that encourages serious engagement (or at least a facsimile of it) with the worst opinions it's possible to have. You just can't keep your sense for sincerity finely honed in an environment like that.
  - Chris2048 11mo ago
    > the worst opinions it's possible to have can you give examples?
    - dylan604 11mo ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45982802 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45982802
      - Chris2048 11mo ago
        your example is obvious sarcasm?
    - tclancy 11mo ago
      https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitHNSays/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitHNSays/ Exists for just this.
      - Chris2048 11mo ago
        And reddit exist for the sake of smug echo-chamber dwellers. Or bots. A lot of the posts listed there are: * obvious joke/sarcasm/tongue-in-cheek etc * taken out of context, or editorialised to similar effect (e.g. missing nuance that often exists in the same thread) * based on the disbelief or disapproval of equally unqualified reddit-bros * flagged/dead or heavily downvoted, the opposite of being 'encouraged' In other words, a lot of low effort 'gotcha' point scoring against alleged 'tech-bros' which may or ma not mean everyone in HN is a SV start-up pitcher, or that no one really know what a tech-bro is.
        tclancy 11mo ago
        >that no one really know what a tech-bro is. If you think this is possibly true, I think we are far apart the discussion wouldn't go anywhere. Not a judgement, just trying to be better about my online engagement style.
        Chris2048 11mo ago
        OK, then in good faith let's dig into it. My perception is a 'tech-bro' is someone in a tech hub (i.e. SV) with access to large amounts of capital (e.g. VC funding), likely involved in start-ups, or with some sway in tech companies (the prototype is often Elon Musk, et al); and their tendency to treat technology as a cure-all, especially in naïve or overoptimistic way, overestimating their own grasp of technology, or applications of technology, to various pursuits. There might also be a machoistic 'frat' element to it as well. A large group within HN perhaps, but probably not a majority of HN-ers. This definition is not a million miles away from the sentiment of 'I could build that in a weekend' from the dev-side, or 'I just had a great idea (a clone of something well know etc) - you implement it, I'll be compensated equally as the "ideas guy"' from the biz-end. In contrast, I think some (per r/SHNS) believe a 'tech-bro' is any man with a background in tech (usually software, maybe hardware), and hence most (the majority of) of the male population (still significant majority..) of HN. By this definition, we aren't a million miles away from the gendered insult/accusation of 'mansplaining', which is basically arrogance, but when a man does it (or specifically, in respect to a woman), with the implication of them misogynistically underestimating women; Not clear if there is an implication that they otherwise treat other men differently - most anecdotes cover the former case without establishing a baseline of behaviour/arrogance. What I'm saying is, as the term is weaponised, there is a scope-creep in direction of greatest utility / weaponised potential - It's inconvenient to establish someone is actually involved in the tech industry, SV-culture or tech-start-up-mentality, such as to critique those things in any relevant or substantial way, so instead any rando is a 'tech-bro' purely because they post on HN, i.e. HN-er == tech-bro, and it just become bashing men in tech; From my perspective 'man involved in technology', generalised across all tech-scene and cultures, isn't a meaningful or relevant distinction or discussion.
patja 11mo ago
Part of the purpose of sarcasm is to inject humor. Personally, I don't find anything humorous about sexual assault.
- Maxatar 11mo ago
  The main purpose of sarcasm is not humor, it's to use irony as a form of contempt. To the extent that humor is involved it's usually done so as a form of mockery.
  - btilly 11mo ago
    I am perfectly OK with having contempt for powerful pedophiles. The opportunity for laughter is a bonus. I just hope that the fallout doesn't begin and end with Prince Andrew and Larry Summers.
- Larrikin 11mo ago
  There is such a long history of using humor to affect change and discuss extremely serious matters. Legally it's protected speech because of it's importance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire
- awalsh128 11mo ago
  Don't read Swift's A Modest Proposal then.
  - patja 11mo ago
    I agree that satire and parody have a valuable place in discourse. But I believe there are some subject matters including sexual assault and more specifically pedophilia that are pretty much never in good taste or useful to parody. Apparently this position is somewhat outspoken here. Swift's Modest Proposal mentions eating babies which is very obviously an extreme behavior that is not tolerated by anyone anywhere, which is a distinct contrast to sexual assault which has victims in the millions if not billions. Also just to note that the comment I replied to is now dead and flagged, so I guess I'm not the only one with these opinions.

I think you missed the sarcasm in the original post ;)

CodingJeebus 11mo ago

ah crap, my gullibility strikes again

ncr100 11mo ago
<3
nixosbestos 11mo ago
Man, it's so understandable. Especially when 35-40% the country is doing exactly that kind of bullshit equivocative defense. Frankly I'm shocked the shitheads usually here read the room and have kept the child-rape apologia to themselves.

acdha 11mo ago

Poe’s law applies too much these days. I’ve tried to get out of the habit of leaving jokes ambiguous like that because it’s just too easy to trip readers up, especially when not everyone has native level awareness of idioms or social context.

giraffe_lady 11mo ago
Part of the problem is also frankly that HN has a culture that encourages serious engagement (or at least a facsimile of it) with the worst opinions it's possible to have. You just can't keep your sense for sincerity finely honed in an environment like that.
- Chris2048 11mo ago
  > the worst opinions it's possible to have can you give examples?
  - dylan604 11mo ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45982802 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45982802
    - Chris2048 11mo ago
      your example is obvious sarcasm?
  - tclancy 11mo ago
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitHNSays/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitHNSays/ Exists for just this.
    - Chris2048 11mo ago
      And reddit exist for the sake of smug echo-chamber dwellers. Or bots. A lot of the posts listed there are: * obvious joke/sarcasm/tongue-in-cheek etc * taken out of context, or editorialised to similar effect (e.g. missing nuance that often exists in the same thread) * based on the disbelief or disapproval of equally unqualified reddit-bros * flagged/dead or heavily downvoted, the opposite of being 'encouraged' In other words, a lot of low effort 'gotcha' point scoring against alleged 'tech-bros' which may or ma not mean everyone in HN is a SV start-up pitcher, or that no one really know what a tech-bro is.
      - tclancy 11mo ago
        >that no one really know what a tech-bro is. If you think this is possibly true, I think we are far apart the discussion wouldn't go anywhere. Not a judgement, just trying to be better about my online engagement style.
        Chris2048 11mo ago
        OK, then in good faith let's dig into it. My perception is a 'tech-bro' is someone in a tech hub (i.e. SV) with access to large amounts of capital (e.g. VC funding), likely involved in start-ups, or with some sway in tech companies (the prototype is often Elon Musk, et al); and their tendency to treat technology as a cure-all, especially in naïve or overoptimistic way, overestimating their own grasp of technology, or applications of technology, to various pursuits. There might also be a machoistic 'frat' element to it as well. A large group within HN perhaps, but probably not a majority of HN-ers. This definition is not a million miles away from the sentiment of 'I could build that in a weekend' from the dev-side, or 'I just had a great idea (a clone of something well know etc) - you implement it, I'll be compensated equally as the "ideas guy"' from the biz-end. In contrast, I think some (per r/SHNS) believe a 'tech-bro' is any man with a background in tech (usually software, maybe hardware), and hence most (the majority of) of the male population (still significant majority..) of HN. By this definition, we aren't a million miles away from the gendered insult/accusation of 'mansplaining', which is basically arrogance, but when a man does it (or specifically, in respect to a woman), with the implication of them misogynistically underestimating women; Not clear if there is an implication that they otherwise treat other men differently - most anecdotes cover the former case without establishing a baseline of behaviour/arrogance. What I'm saying is, as the term is weaponised, there is a scope-creep in direction of greatest utility / weaponised potential - It's inconvenient to establish someone is actually involved in the tech industry, SV-culture or tech-start-up-mentality, such as to critique those things in any relevant or substantial way, so instead any rando is a 'tech-bro' purely because they post on HN, i.e. HN-er == tech-bro, and it just become bashing men in tech; From my perspective 'man involved in technology', generalised across all tech-scene and cultures, isn't a meaningful or relevant distinction or discussion.

patja 11mo ago

Part of the purpose of sarcasm is to inject humor. Personally, I don't find anything humorous about sexual assault.

Maxatar 11mo ago
The main purpose of sarcasm is not humor, it's to use irony as a form of contempt. To the extent that humor is involved it's usually done so as a form of mockery.
- btilly 11mo ago
  I am perfectly OK with having contempt for powerful pedophiles. The opportunity for laughter is a bonus. I just hope that the fallout doesn't begin and end with Prince Andrew and Larry Summers.
Larrikin 11mo ago
There is such a long history of using humor to affect change and discuss extremely serious matters. Legally it's protected speech because of it's importance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire
awalsh128 11mo ago
Don't read Swift's A Modest Proposal then.
- patja 11mo ago
  I agree that satire and parody have a valuable place in discourse. But I believe there are some subject matters including sexual assault and more specifically pedophilia that are pretty much never in good taste or useful to parody. Apparently this position is somewhat outspoken here. Swift's Modest Proposal mentions eating babies which is very obviously an extreme behavior that is not tolerated by anyone anywhere, which is a distinct contrast to sexual assault which has victims in the millions if not billions. Also just to note that the comment I replied to is now dead and flagged, so I guess I'm not the only one with these opinions.