7 ms·

Immigration to the US takes so long, a large percentage of the applicants die of natural causes while waiting. It's Kafkaesque. https://www.cato.org/blog/16-mil

Immigration to the US takes so long, a large percentage of the applicants die of natural causes while waiting. It's Kafkaesque. https://www.cato.org/blog/16-million-family-sponsored-immigrants-will-die-they-can-immigrate https://www.cato.org/blog/16-million-family-sponsored-immigr... https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/immigration/400000-indians-die-green-cards/ https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/immigration/400000-ind...

bill_joy_fanboy 1y ago
Citizenship in the United States is not a right.
- add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
  But if you welcome immigrants so as not to run out of labor or stagnate culturally, rather than simply dislike immigrants, you'd want to improve the bureaucracy.
  - slater 1y ago
    Not if your reelection campaign is reliant on the votes of racists
    - bill_joy_fanboy 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - the_gastropod 1y ago
        https://www.theglobalstatistics.com/ice-detention-statistics/ https://www.theglobalstatistics.com/ice-detention-statistics... According to the stats on this page, there’s literally not a single white immigrant from Europe who has been detained.
        duped 1y ago
        There is at least one: https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/documents-shed-light-background-of-hanover-park-police-officer-arrested-ice/ https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/documents-shed-light-ba... But the point still stands, they're out here rounding up people who don't look white enough.
        hollerith 1y ago
        The page leaves whites out in the table of ethnicities, from which you jump to the conclusion that there are none.
        the_gastropod 1y ago
        You’re jumping to the conclusion that there’s another reason they’d arbitrarily leave out such a segment. It’s either because there aren’t enough to merit an entry, or there’s some conspiracy afoot to make this obviously racist enforcement appear racist.
      - rootusrootus 1y ago
        > We could be talking about White immigrants from Europe Or ... white immigrants from South Africa? Yeah, it is about race.
    - CrulesAll 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - slater 1y ago
        > nothing more than squealing rAsCiStS and fAsCiStS Luckily, that's not my argument.
        CrulesAll 1y ago
        It's the entirety of your argument because it's the only argument you have.
  - CrulesAll 1y ago
    "so as not to run out of labor" Beloved by the extreme right economically and now Trump. Low ball the labor market. Destroy the middle class and especially the working class. But at least CEOs will get their performance bonuses, and shareholders will see shares rise due to lower costs.
    - IAmBroom 1y ago
      It's literally the current case. Our citizenry is incapable of meeting our labor needs. ("Why" is another discussion entirely.) If you were to remove all the illegal immigrants right now from the US, our economy would be kneecapped. Granted, the harvest season is over in most of the US, but housing would be among the first markets to collapse functionally. If you are uncertain how important that market is, study the Great Recession of 2008.
      - CrulesAll 1y ago
        As opposed to figuratively. "If you were to remove all the illegal immigrants right now from the US" The wage levels and benefits would have to rise to meet the demand for labor. The US would also have to sort out its education and trades system too. But if you think this is a skills shortage, I've got a bridge to sell you. And by the way, you are economically libertarian and on the same side as Trump. Bringing in an Indian to do the same job as an American citizen for half the wage is not a skill shortage, it's crony capitalism. "housing would be among the first markets to collapse functionally" Poe's Law. You'd have a massive supply in housing, and therefore a collapse in the prices to owning a house. It has nothing to do with '08. "f you are uncertain how important that market is, study the Great Recession of 2008." The great recession(It was a depression. I'd suggest studying definitions) was caused by three things: President Clinton scrapping Glass-Steagall Act, the dam set up after the Great Depression of '29 to stop it happening again. President Clinton signed the Commodity Futures Modernization Act. Credit default swaps were the nukes of '08. Clinton exempted CDSs from regulation!! President Clinton rewrote the Community Reinvestment Act forcing banks and lending institutions to give NINJA loans under the charge of racism(see commentator above) if they did not. He also signed NAFTA allowing cheap labor and material into the US, and allowing companies to move South. (see Ross Perot great sucking sound) He also brought China into the WTO devastating not just America, but the entire West.
  - bill_joy_fanboy 1y ago
    What exactly does "stagnate culturally" mean? As far as I can tell, America has rapidly become a cultural cesspit, and yet immigration has never been higher. Not sure I follow...
  - happytoexplain 1y ago
    Implying that homogenous cultures are "stagnant" is a hideous insult to people all around the world.
    - BobaFloutist 1y ago
      Is it a hideous insult because you think it's not true, or because the wording feels offensive? Is there a more polite way to express the same sentiment, if you think it's true, or is it either true or insulting?
      - _DeadFred_ 1y ago
        Cuba has had zero immigration for a long time but has an interesting culture. Vietnam has basically zero immigration. Indonesia. Philippines. India. Honduras. Guatemala. Brazil. Jamaica. Mexico. It's both insulting and untrue in a way that feels degrading to these nations' rich thriving cultures. That somehow only western, immigration heavy cultures are valid or are cultures of any worth.
        BobaFloutist 1y ago
        I do think those nations have rich, thriving cultures. I also think that any culture, no matter how rich and thriving, can lead itself toward stagnation if it becomes overly insular. It's fair to point out that immigration isn't the only possible source of cultural diversity, but it's a powerful force for it, and I think the United States, being a huge cultural exporter, is at more risk than countries that are less dominant on the internet.
      - ThrowawayTestr 1y ago
        Just say what you really mean "white people have no culture"
        BobaFloutist 1y ago
        Would it make you feel better if I told you I think Japan, South Korea, and China are at risk of the same? I'm not worried about which culture, I think any culture that's not exposed to other cultures is putting itself at a disadvantage.
- estebank 1y ago
  To anyone who happens to be born on its soil, it actually is. And leaving people on bureaucratic limbo for decades is abusive.
  - bill_joy_fanboy 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - ivraatiems 1y ago
      Effectively no legal scholars or judges of merit support that belief: https://www.scotusblog.com/2025/09/how-birthright-citizenship-made-it-back-to-the-supreme-court/ https://www.scotusblog.com/2025/09/how-birthright-citizenshi...
      - bill_joy_fanboy 1y ago
        [flagged]
        ivraatiems 1y ago
        I'm sure you know better than them due to your many years serving on courts of note.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
        IAmBroom 1y ago
        Alright, how about this rebuttal: That the Earth is round is also debatable. It is considered so by rational and informed people, however.
      - fl7305 1y ago
        > Effectively no legal scholars or judges of merit support that belief And how did the "legal scholars or judges of merit" interpret the 2nd amendment in 1800? The same way as today? The constitution seems to have become a lot more flexible today than people should be comfortable with.
- triceratops 1y ago
  Freedom of speech is though. You're allowed to complain about the process as much as you want.
  - bill_joy_fanboy 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - winter_blue 1y ago
      This is factually wrong. Freedom of speech (1st am.) is for all.
      - bill_joy_fanboy 1y ago
        Because you feel like it should apply?
        triceratops 1y ago
        Yes. And also the century of case law. Again if you disagree, you'd better be prepared to produce birth certificates of all your ancestors to prove you're a "natural born citizen" born of citizens. That's where this leads.
        winter_blue 1y ago
        Eventually, if they’re old stock European-American, that essentially means that they’re the descendants of invaders (i.e. illegal immigrants who never got the consent of the Native Americans to settle).
    - triceratops 1y ago
      1. You don't know if OP is a citizen or not. 2. They apply to everyone subject to the jurisdiction of the US. Otherwise it would be real easy to just say "you're not a citizen, you have no rights". Don't be so sure you're safe.
- notepad0x90 1y ago
  it's literally in the bill of rights. I swear, it needs to amended so that natural born citizens should also have to pass citizenship questions like immigrants to retain their citizenship. How can you not know this? Have you never read or heard a recital of the bill of rights?
stronglikedan 1y ago
And yet we still have the most people trying to get in, and we also let the most people in annually, so we must be doing something better than everyone else. Of course, everything can always be improved.

bill_joy_fanboy 1y ago

Citizenship in the United States is not a right.

add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
But if you welcome immigrants so as not to run out of labor or stagnate culturally, rather than simply dislike immigrants, you'd want to improve the bureaucracy.
- slater 1y ago
  Not if your reelection campaign is reliant on the votes of racists
  - bill_joy_fanboy 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - the_gastropod 1y ago
      https://www.theglobalstatistics.com/ice-detention-statistics/ https://www.theglobalstatistics.com/ice-detention-statistics... According to the stats on this page, there’s literally not a single white immigrant from Europe who has been detained.
      - duped 1y ago
        There is at least one: https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/documents-shed-light-background-of-hanover-park-police-officer-arrested-ice/ https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/documents-shed-light-ba... But the point still stands, they're out here rounding up people who don't look white enough.
      - hollerith 1y ago
        The page leaves whites out in the table of ethnicities, from which you jump to the conclusion that there are none.
        the_gastropod 1y ago
        You’re jumping to the conclusion that there’s another reason they’d arbitrarily leave out such a segment. It’s either because there aren’t enough to merit an entry, or there’s some conspiracy afoot to make this obviously racist enforcement appear racist.
    - rootusrootus 1y ago
      > We could be talking about White immigrants from Europe Or ... white immigrants from South Africa? Yeah, it is about race.
  - CrulesAll 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - slater 1y ago
      > nothing more than squealing rAsCiStS and fAsCiStS Luckily, that's not my argument.
      - CrulesAll 1y ago
        It's the entirety of your argument because it's the only argument you have.
- CrulesAll 1y ago
  "so as not to run out of labor" Beloved by the extreme right economically and now Trump. Low ball the labor market. Destroy the middle class and especially the working class. But at least CEOs will get their performance bonuses, and shareholders will see shares rise due to lower costs.
  - IAmBroom 1y ago
    It's literally the current case. Our citizenry is incapable of meeting our labor needs. ("Why" is another discussion entirely.) If you were to remove all the illegal immigrants right now from the US, our economy would be kneecapped. Granted, the harvest season is over in most of the US, but housing would be among the first markets to collapse functionally. If you are uncertain how important that market is, study the Great Recession of 2008.
    - CrulesAll 1y ago
      As opposed to figuratively. "If you were to remove all the illegal immigrants right now from the US" The wage levels and benefits would have to rise to meet the demand for labor. The US would also have to sort out its education and trades system too. But if you think this is a skills shortage, I've got a bridge to sell you. And by the way, you are economically libertarian and on the same side as Trump. Bringing in an Indian to do the same job as an American citizen for half the wage is not a skill shortage, it's crony capitalism. "housing would be among the first markets to collapse functionally" Poe's Law. You'd have a massive supply in housing, and therefore a collapse in the prices to owning a house. It has nothing to do with '08. "f you are uncertain how important that market is, study the Great Recession of 2008." The great recession(It was a depression. I'd suggest studying definitions) was caused by three things: President Clinton scrapping Glass-Steagall Act, the dam set up after the Great Depression of '29 to stop it happening again. President Clinton signed the Commodity Futures Modernization Act. Credit default swaps were the nukes of '08. Clinton exempted CDSs from regulation!! President Clinton rewrote the Community Reinvestment Act forcing banks and lending institutions to give NINJA loans under the charge of racism(see commentator above) if they did not. He also signed NAFTA allowing cheap labor and material into the US, and allowing companies to move South. (see Ross Perot great sucking sound) He also brought China into the WTO devastating not just America, but the entire West.
- bill_joy_fanboy 1y ago
  What exactly does "stagnate culturally" mean? As far as I can tell, America has rapidly become a cultural cesspit, and yet immigration has never been higher. Not sure I follow...
- happytoexplain 1y ago
  Implying that homogenous cultures are "stagnant" is a hideous insult to people all around the world.
  - BobaFloutist 1y ago
    Is it a hideous insult because you think it's not true, or because the wording feels offensive? Is there a more polite way to express the same sentiment, if you think it's true, or is it either true or insulting?
    - _DeadFred_ 1y ago
      Cuba has had zero immigration for a long time but has an interesting culture. Vietnam has basically zero immigration. Indonesia. Philippines. India. Honduras. Guatemala. Brazil. Jamaica. Mexico. It's both insulting and untrue in a way that feels degrading to these nations' rich thriving cultures. That somehow only western, immigration heavy cultures are valid or are cultures of any worth.
      - BobaFloutist 1y ago
        I do think those nations have rich, thriving cultures. I also think that any culture, no matter how rich and thriving, can lead itself toward stagnation if it becomes overly insular. It's fair to point out that immigration isn't the only possible source of cultural diversity, but it's a powerful force for it, and I think the United States, being a huge cultural exporter, is at more risk than countries that are less dominant on the internet.
    - ThrowawayTestr 1y ago
      Just say what you really mean "white people have no culture"
      - BobaFloutist 1y ago
        Would it make you feel better if I told you I think Japan, South Korea, and China are at risk of the same? I'm not worried about which culture, I think any culture that's not exposed to other cultures is putting itself at a disadvantage.
estebank 1y ago
To anyone who happens to be born on its soil, it actually is. And leaving people on bureaucratic limbo for decades is abusive.
- bill_joy_fanboy 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - ivraatiems 1y ago
    Effectively no legal scholars or judges of merit support that belief: https://www.scotusblog.com/2025/09/how-birthright-citizenship-made-it-back-to-the-supreme-court/ https://www.scotusblog.com/2025/09/how-birthright-citizenshi...
    - bill_joy_fanboy 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - ivraatiems 1y ago
        I'm sure you know better than them due to your many years serving on courts of note.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - IAmBroom 1y ago
        Alright, how about this rebuttal: That the Earth is round is also debatable. It is considered so by rational and informed people, however.
    - fl7305 1y ago
      > Effectively no legal scholars or judges of merit support that belief And how did the "legal scholars or judges of merit" interpret the 2nd amendment in 1800? The same way as today? The constitution seems to have become a lot more flexible today than people should be comfortable with.
triceratops 1y ago
Freedom of speech is though. You're allowed to complain about the process as much as you want.
- bill_joy_fanboy 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - winter_blue 1y ago
    This is factually wrong. Freedom of speech (1st am.) is for all.
    - bill_joy_fanboy 1y ago
      Because you feel like it should apply?
      - triceratops 1y ago
        Yes. And also the century of case law. Again if you disagree, you'd better be prepared to produce birth certificates of all your ancestors to prove you're a "natural born citizen" born of citizens. That's where this leads.
        winter_blue 1y ago
        Eventually, if they’re old stock European-American, that essentially means that they’re the descendants of invaders (i.e. illegal immigrants who never got the consent of the Native Americans to settle).
  - triceratops 1y ago
    1. You don't know if OP is a citizen or not. 2. They apply to everyone subject to the jurisdiction of the US. Otherwise it would be real easy to just say "you're not a citizen, you have no rights". Don't be so sure you're safe.
notepad0x90 1y ago
it's literally in the bill of rights. I swear, it needs to amended so that natural born citizens should also have to pass citizenship questions like immigrants to retain their citizenship. How can you not know this? Have you never read or heard a recital of the bill of rights?

stronglikedan 1y ago

And yet we still have the most people trying to get in, and we also let the most people in annually, so we must be doing something better than everyone else. Of course, everything can always be improved.