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What’s striking is how often these ‘small’ surveillance tech stories trace back to the same state-aligned ecosystem. When Israel does it, it’s treated as a comp

What’s striking is how often these ‘small’ surveillance tech stories trace back to the same state-aligned ecosystem. When Israel does it, it’s treated as a complex security issue. When another ‘bad’ country does the same thing, we immediately call it espionage. And almost on cue, the discussion drifts anywhere except the uncomfortable fact that it’s the same ecosystem from the same country showing up again.

cyanydeez 11mo ago
[flagged]
- dirck-norman 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Thorentis 11mo ago
    The phrase "dog whistle" is also itself a dog whistle that signals where you stand on discussing particular issues in the open.
    - dirck-norman 11mo ago
      Only someone trying to silence any dissent to their position would use platitudes like this rather than addressing why the OP mentioned antisemitism out of nowhere.
tamimio 11mo ago
You are asking the “wrong” question!! If you are Gabriele Nunziati you will be fired immediately!! For context: https://www.eunews.it/en/2025/11/05/italian-journalist-fired-for-wrong-question-brussels-willing-to-answer-everyone/ https://www.eunews.it/en/2025/11/05/italian-journalist-fired...
crmd 11mo ago
it’s a tough infosec situation because the tel aviv-haifa corridor in israel has an enormous amount of computer science R&D going on that gives US companies a competitive advantage. for example, annapurna labs in haifa develops the technology behind AWS’s nitro cards, which run the hypervisor, block storage, and networking in every EC2 server.
- verisimi 11mo ago
  Fair enough. I guess it's fine to be spied on to make sure US companies have that competitive advantage you mention. As its all in a good cause, I'll take the Samsung phone!
  - dijit 11mo ago
    To be fair, us over in Europe have been uncomfortable for a while due to the US surveillance apparatus having total dominion over the underlying systems that run our countries. So, its a little bit tone deaf to hear these complaints from Americans honestly. We’re told that we’re uncompetitive (yet when rising startups happen they’re bought out before being too large)- we’re told that we shouldn’t run on anything except US SaaS and US cloud providers. I’m not saying that you specifically make these arguments, but the zeitgeist on HN definitely centres on this notion. So, please forgive me for not taking this as seriously as you’d like me to.
    - crmd 11mo ago
      I think USA tech hegemony is perfectly analogous to this Israeli tech dilemma. As a dual American and EU (Irish) citizen, should my company strive to categorically avoid Intel and Nvidia technologies for national security reasons? I think there is a strong argument for tech nationalism but there is still a hegemonic dilemma.
      - pjmlp 11mo ago
        The main problem, even if you would avoid Intel and NVidia, is that during the last decades we confortably let OS and programing languages driven by US companies take over. So you might go with ARM, RISC V, but still have to make use of an OS and programming stack with strong ties to US based companies, even if open source.
amarcheschi 11mo ago
I mean, it's literally the same thing that happens when past genocides are bad, but when they happen today from an ally of the west... "it's complicated". Except this time happens on the technological side rather than the humanitarian one
- like_any_other 11mo ago
  > an ally of the west Remind me again of all the help Israel has provided the USA/the West that they are considered such a great (the greatest, in fact) ally?
  - pcthrowaway 11mo ago
    [flagged]
    - whatshisface 11mo ago
      Everything on your list involved the sale of a product, by this logic China would be our closest ally (actually I wish our leaders were that sane, but the inconsistency stands...). I wish people could just state the transparently documented historical truth, Israel is a US ally because Truman and enough other backers wanted to create a state for Holocaust survivors. The leadership and majority of voters in the US have been true believers in Zionism (in one of its many versions) for generations, and supports Israel by essentially the same logic that Israelis support Israel by. This existed as a state of affairs with almost no opposition at any level until a couple years ago when it came into conflict with another basic belief (about being close enough to just in the cause and method of war that most people could somewhat believe it).
  - catlover76 11mo ago
    [dead]
  - Cthulhu_ 11mo ago
    Heaps of military and intelligence technology, base of operations / bastion in the middle east, etc.
energy123 11mo ago
When Israel does what, in this case? Write software?
- adhamsalama 11mo ago
  Spyware*
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
kryogen1c 11mo ago
[flagged]
- YorickPeterse 11mo ago
  If only Israel wasn't committing a genocide itself, and hadn't treated the Palestinian people like lesser beings for decades, maybe things would be different.
  - dijit 11mo ago
    [flagged]
    - tovej 11mo ago
      This narrative about the founding of Israel is false. Israel was founded in the middle of an offensive when it was "descended upon by the Arab world". That was a defensive reaction to Israel's brutal Plan Dalet, an invasion and occupation of Palestine, which extended far beyond what the UN had drawn up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet And then they destroyed 500 villages, ethnically cleansed Palestine of three quarters of a million of Palestinians and never let them return. They went around with detailed lists of people identified as Arabs in each village, rounded them up, set fire to the villages, and then blew up the rubble. How can you believe that is the act of a legitimate state? It is quite simply evil. Nazi-level shit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba This was not an operation that was sanctioned by the UN's partition plan (which was ridiculous and at odds with the UNs founding principles of self-determination to begin with) it was just retconned into being a legitimate action.
      - dijit 11mo ago
        I appreciate you sharing these links and pushing back. It’s clear you’re coming from a place of deep conviction about the historical injustices here, and I respect that. The Nakba is undeniably a catastrophe for Palestinians, involving mass expulsions, village destructions, and profound human suffering that shapes their identity to this day. Plan Dalet, as outlined in the Wikipedia article you linked, was indeed a Haganah blueprint that shifted to offensive operations, leading to the depopulation of hundreds of villages and the flight or expulsion of around 750,000 Palestinians. Historians like Ilan Pappé (in “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine”) argue it was a systematic plan for ethnic cleansing, with tactics like sieges, bombings, and forced removals. That’s not something to downplay or excuse: it’s a dark chapter, and comparing elements to other atrocities (while avoiding direct equivalences) highlights the moral weight. That said, I think the full picture is even more layered, and understanding both sides means grappling with the context without absolving anyone. The Arab states’ intervention in May 1948 wasn’t purely defensive; it was also driven by their own territorial ambitions and opposition to the UN Partition Plan (which, as you note, was flawed and rejected by Palestinians and Arabs for giving 55% of the land to a Jewish minority that owned ~7%). But Plan Dalet was finalized in March 1948 amid escalating civil war violence; after the UN vote in November 1947 sparked attacks from both sides, including Arab irregulars blockading Jewish areas and the Haganah responding in kind. Benny Morris (a “New Historian” who revised much of the traditional Israeli narrative) describes it as a response to anticipated Arab invasions, though he acknowledges the expulsions were often brutal and opportunistic. The plan’s text emphasizes securing Jewish areas and borders “in anticipation of” invasion, but in practice, it went beyond that, capturing territory outside the UN-allotted Jewish state. You’re right that this wasn’t explicitly sanctioned by the UN, and the partition itself violated self-determination principles (as the Arab Higher Committee argued). But the “retconning” happened post-facto through armistice lines and international recognition of Israel. It’s tragic that Palestinians paid the price for European colonialism, the Holocaust’s aftermath, and Zionist aspirations; all while Arab leaders failed to unify or protect them effectively. My original point wasn’t to defend Israel as “legitimate” in every action (far from it: they’ve committed wrongs that demand accountability). It was to urge empathy for how each side’s trauma fuels the cycle: Israelis seeing 1948 as survival against existential threats (five Arab armies invading a nascent state), Palestinians as the theft of their homeland. Both narratives have truths, and dismissing one entirely risks perpetuating the divide. If we’re serious about peace, we need to hold space for that complexity; maybe starting with works like Morris’s “1948” or Rashid Khalidi’s “The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine” for balanced views. Thanks for engaging thoughtfully; these conversations are hard but necessary.
FridayoLeary 11mo ago
[flagged]
- rzk 11mo ago
  > Israel as a country is aligned with Western values Western values include, among other things, a commitment to equality and human rights, not apartheid[1] and genocide[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_apartheid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_apartheid [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide
  - FridayoLeary 11mo ago
    [flagged]
    - Kab1r 11mo ago
      As opposed to the rest of the world who believe you must let yourself be murdered /s
      - FridayoLeary 11mo ago
        That certainly seems to be their attitude. If israel had listened to all of the advice from Britain and France it may well have been 60k Israelis dead. Imagine how many palestinians would have died. Nobody here is arguing against israel in good faith. If anyone had genuinely cared about the palestinians they would have put massive pressure on Hamas and put their full support behind a quick and brutal campaign. What would have happened? A 2 month long war and 20k dead max.
    - rzk 11mo ago
      > a wikipedia page on Western values Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_values https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_values Since the wikipedia page also mentions individual liberty and rule of law, let me also link to this topic: Arrest and detention of Palestinian minors by Israel — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest_and_detention_of_Palestinian_minors_by_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest_and_detention_of_Palest...
bfkwlfkjf 11mo ago
[flagged]

cyanydeez 11mo ago

[flagged]

dirck-norman 11mo ago
[flagged]
- Thorentis 11mo ago
  The phrase "dog whistle" is also itself a dog whistle that signals where you stand on discussing particular issues in the open.
  - dirck-norman 11mo ago
    Only someone trying to silence any dissent to their position would use platitudes like this rather than addressing why the OP mentioned antisemitism out of nowhere.

tamimio 11mo ago

You are asking the “wrong” question!! If you are Gabriele Nunziati you will be fired immediately!! For context: https://www.eunews.it/en/2025/11/05/italian-journalist-fired-for-wrong-question-brussels-willing-to-answer-everyone/ https://www.eunews.it/en/2025/11/05/italian-journalist-fired...

crmd 11mo ago

it’s a tough infosec situation because the tel aviv-haifa corridor in israel has an enormous amount of computer science R&D going on that gives US companies a competitive advantage. for example, annapurna labs in haifa develops the technology behind AWS’s nitro cards, which run the hypervisor, block storage, and networking in every EC2 server.

verisimi 11mo ago
Fair enough. I guess it's fine to be spied on to make sure US companies have that competitive advantage you mention. As its all in a good cause, I'll take the Samsung phone!
- dijit 11mo ago
  To be fair, us over in Europe have been uncomfortable for a while due to the US surveillance apparatus having total dominion over the underlying systems that run our countries. So, its a little bit tone deaf to hear these complaints from Americans honestly. We’re told that we’re uncompetitive (yet when rising startups happen they’re bought out before being too large)- we’re told that we shouldn’t run on anything except US SaaS and US cloud providers. I’m not saying that you specifically make these arguments, but the zeitgeist on HN definitely centres on this notion. So, please forgive me for not taking this as seriously as you’d like me to.
  - crmd 11mo ago
    I think USA tech hegemony is perfectly analogous to this Israeli tech dilemma. As a dual American and EU (Irish) citizen, should my company strive to categorically avoid Intel and Nvidia technologies for national security reasons? I think there is a strong argument for tech nationalism but there is still a hegemonic dilemma.
    - pjmlp 11mo ago
      The main problem, even if you would avoid Intel and NVidia, is that during the last decades we confortably let OS and programing languages driven by US companies take over. So you might go with ARM, RISC V, but still have to make use of an OS and programming stack with strong ties to US based companies, even if open source.

amarcheschi 11mo ago

I mean, it's literally the same thing that happens when past genocides are bad, but when they happen today from an ally of the west... "it's complicated". Except this time happens on the technological side rather than the humanitarian one

like_any_other 11mo ago
> an ally of the west Remind me again of all the help Israel has provided the USA/the West that they are considered such a great (the greatest, in fact) ally?
- pcthrowaway 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - whatshisface 11mo ago
    Everything on your list involved the sale of a product, by this logic China would be our closest ally (actually I wish our leaders were that sane, but the inconsistency stands...). I wish people could just state the transparently documented historical truth, Israel is a US ally because Truman and enough other backers wanted to create a state for Holocaust survivors. The leadership and majority of voters in the US have been true believers in Zionism (in one of its many versions) for generations, and supports Israel by essentially the same logic that Israelis support Israel by. This existed as a state of affairs with almost no opposition at any level until a couple years ago when it came into conflict with another basic belief (about being close enough to just in the cause and method of war that most people could somewhat believe it).
- catlover76 11mo ago
  [dead]
- Cthulhu_ 11mo ago
  Heaps of military and intelligence technology, base of operations / bastion in the middle east, etc.

energy123 11mo ago

When Israel does what, in this case? Write software?

adhamsalama 11mo ago
Spyware*
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]

kryogen1c 11mo ago

[flagged]

YorickPeterse 11mo ago
If only Israel wasn't committing a genocide itself, and hadn't treated the Palestinian people like lesser beings for decades, maybe things would be different.
- dijit 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - tovej 11mo ago
    This narrative about the founding of Israel is false. Israel was founded in the middle of an offensive when it was "descended upon by the Arab world". That was a defensive reaction to Israel's brutal Plan Dalet, an invasion and occupation of Palestine, which extended far beyond what the UN had drawn up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet And then they destroyed 500 villages, ethnically cleansed Palestine of three quarters of a million of Palestinians and never let them return. They went around with detailed lists of people identified as Arabs in each village, rounded them up, set fire to the villages, and then blew up the rubble. How can you believe that is the act of a legitimate state? It is quite simply evil. Nazi-level shit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba This was not an operation that was sanctioned by the UN's partition plan (which was ridiculous and at odds with the UNs founding principles of self-determination to begin with) it was just retconned into being a legitimate action.
    - dijit 11mo ago
      I appreciate you sharing these links and pushing back. It’s clear you’re coming from a place of deep conviction about the historical injustices here, and I respect that. The Nakba is undeniably a catastrophe for Palestinians, involving mass expulsions, village destructions, and profound human suffering that shapes their identity to this day. Plan Dalet, as outlined in the Wikipedia article you linked, was indeed a Haganah blueprint that shifted to offensive operations, leading to the depopulation of hundreds of villages and the flight or expulsion of around 750,000 Palestinians. Historians like Ilan Pappé (in “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine”) argue it was a systematic plan for ethnic cleansing, with tactics like sieges, bombings, and forced removals. That’s not something to downplay or excuse: it’s a dark chapter, and comparing elements to other atrocities (while avoiding direct equivalences) highlights the moral weight. That said, I think the full picture is even more layered, and understanding both sides means grappling with the context without absolving anyone. The Arab states’ intervention in May 1948 wasn’t purely defensive; it was also driven by their own territorial ambitions and opposition to the UN Partition Plan (which, as you note, was flawed and rejected by Palestinians and Arabs for giving 55% of the land to a Jewish minority that owned ~7%). But Plan Dalet was finalized in March 1948 amid escalating civil war violence; after the UN vote in November 1947 sparked attacks from both sides, including Arab irregulars blockading Jewish areas and the Haganah responding in kind. Benny Morris (a “New Historian” who revised much of the traditional Israeli narrative) describes it as a response to anticipated Arab invasions, though he acknowledges the expulsions were often brutal and opportunistic. The plan’s text emphasizes securing Jewish areas and borders “in anticipation of” invasion, but in practice, it went beyond that, capturing territory outside the UN-allotted Jewish state. You’re right that this wasn’t explicitly sanctioned by the UN, and the partition itself violated self-determination principles (as the Arab Higher Committee argued). But the “retconning” happened post-facto through armistice lines and international recognition of Israel. It’s tragic that Palestinians paid the price for European colonialism, the Holocaust’s aftermath, and Zionist aspirations; all while Arab leaders failed to unify or protect them effectively. My original point wasn’t to defend Israel as “legitimate” in every action (far from it: they’ve committed wrongs that demand accountability). It was to urge empathy for how each side’s trauma fuels the cycle: Israelis seeing 1948 as survival against existential threats (five Arab armies invading a nascent state), Palestinians as the theft of their homeland. Both narratives have truths, and dismissing one entirely risks perpetuating the divide. If we’re serious about peace, we need to hold space for that complexity; maybe starting with works like Morris’s “1948” or Rashid Khalidi’s “The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine” for balanced views. Thanks for engaging thoughtfully; these conversations are hard but necessary.

FridayoLeary 11mo ago

[flagged]

rzk 11mo ago
> Israel as a country is aligned with Western values Western values include, among other things, a commitment to equality and human rights, not apartheid[1] and genocide[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_apartheid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_apartheid [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide
- FridayoLeary 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Kab1r 11mo ago
    As opposed to the rest of the world who believe you must let yourself be murdered /s
    - FridayoLeary 11mo ago
      That certainly seems to be their attitude. If israel had listened to all of the advice from Britain and France it may well have been 60k Israelis dead. Imagine how many palestinians would have died. Nobody here is arguing against israel in good faith. If anyone had genuinely cared about the palestinians they would have put massive pressure on Hamas and put their full support behind a quick and brutal campaign. What would have happened? A 2 month long war and 20k dead max.
  - rzk 11mo ago
    > a wikipedia page on Western values Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_values https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_values Since the wikipedia page also mentions individual liberty and rule of law, let me also link to this topic: Arrest and detention of Palestinian minors by Israel — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest_and_detention_of_Palestinian_minors_by_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest_and_detention_of_Palest...

bfkwlfkjf 11mo ago

[flagged]