5 ms·

I read champignons and it kind of fit even better. Adderall (Brave New World) and mushrooms (Island).

by earlyriser 11mo ago

brandall10 11mo ago
Soma in BNW is more analogous to MDMA as it's about sedated pleasure, not mental clarity/performance.
- gwbas1c 11mo ago
  I seem to think marijuana is more about sedated pleasure than MDMA. Granted, it's been about 30 years since I read Brave New World.
  - mfro 11mo ago
    I agree, soma definitely parallels weed much more closely, but I don't think it's a perfect match. Huxley imagines a drug a bit more insidious, without obviously negative side effects, and with somewhat unrealistic(imo) intended effects.
    - lukan 11mo ago
      Disagree. Weed is somewhat psychadelic ... and makes people enjoy the colors and not work so much. Soma made people numbless working with a feeling of glow. So I always understood it as antidepressant and moodlifter with some amphetamine compoments.
      - ProllyInfamous 11mo ago
        Weed isn't really psychedelic (it can be profound, and sometimes you'll get extra giggly...) but really it's more about being okay with the numbness. It's also not really an antidepressant any more than it is an amphetamine (it's neither). Attempting to self-medicate in either direction is not beneficial, longer term. If your marijuana usage carries you through such wide-ranging symptomology, that's on you homey [holds-back next pass to you]. It's okay to ask for help.
        lukan 11mo ago
        .. and it is on you, if you misread. I believe my writing was clear. (Antidepressant was about "Soma", the Huxley fantasy drug)
        ProllyInfamous 11mo ago
        ' " ` A soma in time saves nine ` " '
        kakacik 11mo ago
        > Weed isn't really psychedelic Depends on mind, use, dose. I've had THC trips that were almost as strong as concentrated mushrooms can deliver on an empty stomach, seeing shit that wasn't, patterns, my mind was light years away, reality twisted. Almost as strong. Didn't dance as a mist of atoms to shamanic music without any connection to my real 5 senses, but then again I hardly met mushroom user who did achieve that themselves.
        ProllyInfamous 11mo ago
        I agree with you that even higher doses of psilocybin (several grams) isn't that psychedelic (rather interconnected, e.g.)... I don't have enough experience with LSD to exclude its visuals capability, but even its quintessential acid visuals I rarely hear described [as such]. ...unlike DMT (recommended) or Salvia (not recommended) or mescaline (neutral), which even at low dosages are strikingly visual. I have only met devils with the latter two. Ketamine isn't exactly visual, but its dreaminess is angelic.
  - brandall10 11mo ago
    The sedation is psychological - soma suppresses discomfort and boosts easy pleasure. It’s not introspective at all, which makes it much closer to MDMA than to cannabis.
  - Melatonic 11mo ago
    I'd say something with the intensity of weed (relatively low) along with the effects of MDMA. Essentially "MDMA lite" Marijuana often seems to promote thinking "outside the box" which is probably not what the Brave New World people would want for their population
    - FooBarBizBazz 11mo ago
      I think he was inspired by Valium and other benzos. They put people into a docile, low-anxiety state, and they were popular around the time the book was written. That's also more-or-less consistent with the implied literary reference to the Lotus Eaters, who I think are usually imagined as opium users. Opioids are different but are also downers that reduce anxiety. Benzos later featured significantly in one of Adam Curtis' film-essays -- maybe Century of the Self, maybe another one. I'd view those films as being in a similar spirit to Brave New World.
      - halper 11mo ago
        If we are talking about BNW, which was written in 1931, then that book predates benzodiazepines by 25 years or so. Perhaps you are thinking about barbiturates?
        FooBarBizBazz 11mo ago
        Oof! Thank you for the correction. I should have checked the publication date. I thought it was from the late '50s; I was wrong. (By contrast, turns out 1984 -- which is always paired with BNW -- came out later than I thought, in '49. Yet BNW seemed more forward-looking. I always imagined it was written partially in response. It wasn't.) There goes my benzo theory. Though they remain what I imagine when I read about soma.
    - mikkupikku 11mo ago
      > Marijuana often seems to promote thinking "outside the box" Hard disagree. Cannabis induces a sensation of profundity. It makes ordinary mundane thoughts feel insightful and novel. The ideas you have when on cannabis seem like insightful out of the box ideas, but that's a perceptual illusion created by the drug. The best it can do is provide you the encouragement to see ideas through to the end, but of course this is tempered by the way it generally has a negative effect on motivation, so most often users are left thinking of ideas they think are wonderful, but not actually executing on those ideas. End result is usually a couch potato lost in unproductive thoughts.
  - Spivak 11mo ago
    It is, you're right, and it's super weird what happens on the internet when you suggest weed isn't some gateway to enlightenment. I love cannabis, but it's a depressant that increases dopamine, it's not that complicated. Stoners on the internet sound exactly like alcoholics—they say it makes them more creative, helps them sleep, deal with anxiety too. We do such a shit job teaching about signs of psychological addiction.
    - pfannkuchen 11mo ago
      It definitely doesn’t help sleep quality, but it could plausibly help with creativity in people who have the capacity to have good creative ideas. This is because it seems to produce a feeling that all (or at least more) of one’s ideas are good. If someone has a problem with idea development because they decide early that the idea isn’t worth exploring, perhaps due to low self confidence in ideation etc, then simply producing the feeling of it being a good idea could help them go further than they would otherwise with it. Of course it also makes dumb ideas feel like good ideas too, so for someone who doesn’t have the capacity to have good creative ideas or who doesn’t have this problem in the first place, it probably won’t help.
      - cluckindan 11mo ago
        It definitely helps sleep quality in some people.
        pfannkuchen 11mo ago
        I’ve read that it interferes with one or more sleep stages enough to make them ineffective. My understanding is that it may help someone fall asleep, but the actual sleep they get will definitely be worse. So for insomnia, where the alternative is just not sleeping at all, yes, but otherwise no, AFAIK.
        cluckindan 11mo ago
        Exactly. In addition to general insomnia, people who suffer from persistent nightmares due to PTSD or other reasons will sleep restfully. And with nightmares I’m not referring to bad dreams in general, but to horrific nightmares where a person is re-experiencing their trauma in various ways, not necessarily remembering their dreams afterwards. Imagine sleeping eight hours but waking up more tired than when you went to sleep and in full panic mode without even knowing why. After months and years, it gets pretty tiring. Being able to not be afraid of going to sleep is a lifesaver and can keep those people functional in their lives.
- ratelimitsteve 11mo ago
  mdma is pleasureful but extremely non-sedated
  - brandall10 11mo ago
    I meant the psychological role in the book - soma as a tool to melt away discomfort or disturbing feelings, not its literal pharmacology.
  - Liquix 11mo ago
    pure racemic MDMA has very little stimulant effect. street MDMA can feel stimulating because it is either intentionally mixed with caffeine/speed/meth or contains residual precursor from clandestine synthesis. my major state was one of deep relaxation ... MDMA does not work like Dexedrine ... I feel totally peaceful. - Alexander Shulgin, PIHKAL https://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal109.shtml https://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal109...
    - temp0826 11mo ago
      Shulgin used dozens (hundreds?) of these compounds. I do wonder if some of his better subjective observations might be due to simply relieving withdrawal symptoms.
      - ratelimitsteve 11mo ago
        that was certainly the story when I found opioids to be energizing
      - loeg 11mo ago
        Yeah, Shulgin is not really a reliable witness here. He's also a single anecdote.
  - wmeredith 11mo ago
    The street drug Ecstasy is MDMA usually mixed with speed. MDMA doesn't have a stimulating effect.
- loeg 11mo ago
  MDMA isn't sedated pleasure, it's very stimmy pleasure.
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  - mock-possum 11mo ago
    Kind of depends really. I’ve definitely had Molly trips that have been very oozy/cuddly/spacey. I really prefer the term ‘ecstacy’ for mdma paired with a stimulant, even if it’s just caffeine - because that is a distinct experience.
- cjrp 11mo ago
  Isn't it more like morphine or another opiate?
MavropaliasG 11mo ago
Which "Island", is that a book?

I read champignons and it kind of fit even better. Adderall (Brave New World) and mushrooms (Island).

brandall10 11mo ago

Soma in BNW is more analogous to MDMA as it's about sedated pleasure, not mental clarity/performance.

gwbas1c 11mo ago
I seem to think marijuana is more about sedated pleasure than MDMA. Granted, it's been about 30 years since I read Brave New World.
- mfro 11mo ago
  I agree, soma definitely parallels weed much more closely, but I don't think it's a perfect match. Huxley imagines a drug a bit more insidious, without obviously negative side effects, and with somewhat unrealistic(imo) intended effects.
  - lukan 11mo ago
    Disagree. Weed is somewhat psychadelic ... and makes people enjoy the colors and not work so much. Soma made people numbless working with a feeling of glow. So I always understood it as antidepressant and moodlifter with some amphetamine compoments.
    - ProllyInfamous 11mo ago
      Weed isn't really psychedelic (it can be profound, and sometimes you'll get extra giggly...) but really it's more about being okay with the numbness. It's also not really an antidepressant any more than it is an amphetamine (it's neither). Attempting to self-medicate in either direction is not beneficial, longer term. If your marijuana usage carries you through such wide-ranging symptomology, that's on you homey [holds-back next pass to you]. It's okay to ask for help.
      - lukan 11mo ago
        .. and it is on you, if you misread. I believe my writing was clear. (Antidepressant was about "Soma", the Huxley fantasy drug)
        ProllyInfamous 11mo ago
        ' " ` A soma in time saves nine ` " '
      - kakacik 11mo ago
        > Weed isn't really psychedelic Depends on mind, use, dose. I've had THC trips that were almost as strong as concentrated mushrooms can deliver on an empty stomach, seeing shit that wasn't, patterns, my mind was light years away, reality twisted. Almost as strong. Didn't dance as a mist of atoms to shamanic music without any connection to my real 5 senses, but then again I hardly met mushroom user who did achieve that themselves.
        ProllyInfamous 11mo ago
        I agree with you that even higher doses of psilocybin (several grams) isn't that psychedelic (rather interconnected, e.g.)... I don't have enough experience with LSD to exclude its visuals capability, but even its quintessential acid visuals I rarely hear described [as such]. ...unlike DMT (recommended) or Salvia (not recommended) or mescaline (neutral), which even at low dosages are strikingly visual. I have only met devils with the latter two. Ketamine isn't exactly visual, but its dreaminess is angelic.
- brandall10 11mo ago
  The sedation is psychological - soma suppresses discomfort and boosts easy pleasure. It’s not introspective at all, which makes it much closer to MDMA than to cannabis.
- Melatonic 11mo ago
  I'd say something with the intensity of weed (relatively low) along with the effects of MDMA. Essentially "MDMA lite" Marijuana often seems to promote thinking "outside the box" which is probably not what the Brave New World people would want for their population
  - FooBarBizBazz 11mo ago
    I think he was inspired by Valium and other benzos. They put people into a docile, low-anxiety state, and they were popular around the time the book was written. That's also more-or-less consistent with the implied literary reference to the Lotus Eaters, who I think are usually imagined as opium users. Opioids are different but are also downers that reduce anxiety. Benzos later featured significantly in one of Adam Curtis' film-essays -- maybe Century of the Self, maybe another one. I'd view those films as being in a similar spirit to Brave New World.
    - halper 11mo ago
      If we are talking about BNW, which was written in 1931, then that book predates benzodiazepines by 25 years or so. Perhaps you are thinking about barbiturates?
      - FooBarBizBazz 11mo ago
        Oof! Thank you for the correction. I should have checked the publication date. I thought it was from the late '50s; I was wrong. (By contrast, turns out 1984 -- which is always paired with BNW -- came out later than I thought, in '49. Yet BNW seemed more forward-looking. I always imagined it was written partially in response. It wasn't.) There goes my benzo theory. Though they remain what I imagine when I read about soma.
  - mikkupikku 11mo ago
    > Marijuana often seems to promote thinking "outside the box" Hard disagree. Cannabis induces a sensation of profundity. It makes ordinary mundane thoughts feel insightful and novel. The ideas you have when on cannabis seem like insightful out of the box ideas, but that's a perceptual illusion created by the drug. The best it can do is provide you the encouragement to see ideas through to the end, but of course this is tempered by the way it generally has a negative effect on motivation, so most often users are left thinking of ideas they think are wonderful, but not actually executing on those ideas. End result is usually a couch potato lost in unproductive thoughts.
- Spivak 11mo ago
  It is, you're right, and it's super weird what happens on the internet when you suggest weed isn't some gateway to enlightenment. I love cannabis, but it's a depressant that increases dopamine, it's not that complicated. Stoners on the internet sound exactly like alcoholics—they say it makes them more creative, helps them sleep, deal with anxiety too. We do such a shit job teaching about signs of psychological addiction.
  - pfannkuchen 11mo ago
    It definitely doesn’t help sleep quality, but it could plausibly help with creativity in people who have the capacity to have good creative ideas. This is because it seems to produce a feeling that all (or at least more) of one’s ideas are good. If someone has a problem with idea development because they decide early that the idea isn’t worth exploring, perhaps due to low self confidence in ideation etc, then simply producing the feeling of it being a good idea could help them go further than they would otherwise with it. Of course it also makes dumb ideas feel like good ideas too, so for someone who doesn’t have the capacity to have good creative ideas or who doesn’t have this problem in the first place, it probably won’t help.
    - cluckindan 11mo ago
      It definitely helps sleep quality in some people.
      - pfannkuchen 11mo ago
        I’ve read that it interferes with one or more sleep stages enough to make them ineffective. My understanding is that it may help someone fall asleep, but the actual sleep they get will definitely be worse. So for insomnia, where the alternative is just not sleeping at all, yes, but otherwise no, AFAIK.
        cluckindan 11mo ago
        Exactly. In addition to general insomnia, people who suffer from persistent nightmares due to PTSD or other reasons will sleep restfully. And with nightmares I’m not referring to bad dreams in general, but to horrific nightmares where a person is re-experiencing their trauma in various ways, not necessarily remembering their dreams afterwards. Imagine sleeping eight hours but waking up more tired than when you went to sleep and in full panic mode without even knowing why. After months and years, it gets pretty tiring. Being able to not be afraid of going to sleep is a lifesaver and can keep those people functional in their lives.
ratelimitsteve 11mo ago
mdma is pleasureful but extremely non-sedated
- brandall10 11mo ago
  I meant the psychological role in the book - soma as a tool to melt away discomfort or disturbing feelings, not its literal pharmacology.
- Liquix 11mo ago
  pure racemic MDMA has very little stimulant effect. street MDMA can feel stimulating because it is either intentionally mixed with caffeine/speed/meth or contains residual precursor from clandestine synthesis. my major state was one of deep relaxation ... MDMA does not work like Dexedrine ... I feel totally peaceful. - Alexander Shulgin, PIHKAL https://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal109.shtml https://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal109...
  - temp0826 11mo ago
    Shulgin used dozens (hundreds?) of these compounds. I do wonder if some of his better subjective observations might be due to simply relieving withdrawal symptoms.
    - ratelimitsteve 11mo ago
      that was certainly the story when I found opioids to be energizing
    - loeg 11mo ago
      Yeah, Shulgin is not really a reliable witness here. He's also a single anecdote.
- wmeredith 11mo ago
  The street drug Ecstasy is MDMA usually mixed with speed. MDMA doesn't have a stimulating effect.
loeg 11mo ago
MDMA isn't sedated pleasure, it's very stimmy pleasure.
- deleted 11mo ago
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- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- mock-possum 11mo ago
  Kind of depends really. I’ve definitely had Molly trips that have been very oozy/cuddly/spacey. I really prefer the term ‘ecstacy’ for mdma paired with a stimulant, even if it’s just caffeine - because that is a distinct experience.
cjrp 11mo ago
Isn't it more like morphine or another opiate?

MavropaliasG 11mo ago

Which "Island", is that a book?