2 ms·

If France–a country known for its strong labour laws and unions–could transition to nuclear in the '70s, any Western country can do it. Even if the Western wor

If France–a country known for its strong labour laws and unions–could transition to nuclear in the '70s, any Western country can do it. Even if the Western world lags behind due to labour regulations, the cost still pays off in the long run due to overall less complex infrastructure and stable, AC baseload power. You are thinking only about the cost of building. What about the cost of maintaining all that infrastructure? Huge solar and wind farms spread out over vast areas, essentially destroying the local ecology? NPPs have a relatively tiny footprint. Every cited source has a bias. You think 'Clean Technica' is unbiased? Come on.

toomuchtodo 11mo ago
> If France–a country known for its strong labour laws and unions–could transition to nuclear in the '70s, any Western country can do it. France had to nationalize EDF because they could not afford the costs associated with their nuclear fleet. The 70s are 50 years in the past, and are not what the future will look like. This is also why Spain plans to retire its remaining nuclear generators, and go all in on renewables. EDF fleet upkeep will cost over 100 billion euros by 2035, court of auditors says - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/edf-fleet-upkeep-will-cost-over-100-billion-euros-by-2035-court-auditors-says-2025-11-17/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/edf-fleet-upkeep-wil... - November 17th, 2025 French utility EDF lifts cost estimate for new reactors to 67 billion euros - Les Echos - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/french-utility-edf-lifts-cost-estimate-new-reactors-67-bln-euros-les-echos-2024-03-04/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/french-utility-edf-l... - March 4th, 2024 Explainer-Why a French plan to take full control of EDF is no cure-all - https://www.euronews.com/next/2022/07/07/edf-nationalistion https://www.euronews.com/next/2022/07/07/edf-nationalistion - July 7th, 2022 Spain’s Nuclear Shutdown Set to Test Renewables Success Story - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-04-11/spain-s-nuclear-shutdown-set-to-test-renewables-success-story https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-04-11/spain-s-n... | https://archive.today/4fB7K https://archive.today/4fB7K - April 11th, 2025 (“Spain is a postcard, a glimpse into the future where you’re not going to need baseload generators from 8am to 5pm” with solar and wind providing all of the grid’s needs during that time, said Kesavarthiniy Savarimuthu, a European power markets analyst with BloombergNEF. Still, she said, there is a reasonable chance this goal may take longer than expected and “extending the life of the nuclear fleet can prove as an insurance for these delays.”) (My note: As of this comment, Spain has 7.12GW of nuclear generation capacity per ree.es, and assuming ~1GW/month deployment rate seen in Germany, could replace this capacity with solar and batteries in ~28-36 months; per Electricity Maps, only 17.25% of Spain's electrical generation over the last twelve months has been sourced from this nuclear) Tangentially, Europe has enough wind potential to power the world, for scale.
nagisa 11mo ago
The options in the '70s were much different from those of today. And for France specifically what they have underground (lots of uranium, no oil, no gas & no coal) strongly suggested exactly one way forward.
- cbmuser 11mo ago
  Wind and solar existed in the 70s as well. Plus, Germany invested 500 billion Euros in its energy transition and is STILL heavily dependent on coal.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - bronson 11mo ago
    > Wind and solar existed in the 70s as well. Not really. Solar has gone down in price almost 500X since 1975. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/solar-pv-prices https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/solar-pv-prices Wind has gone down significantly too. https://docs.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/54526.pdf https://docs.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/54526.pdf Meanwhile, the graph for nuclear waste disposal is going rapidly in the opposite direction. https://www.ans.org/news/article-6587/us-spent-fuel-liability-jumps-to-445-billion/ https://www.ans.org/news/article-6587/us-spent-fuel-liabilit... http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2024/ph240/kendall1/ http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2024/ph240/kendall1/
  - dalyons 11mo ago
    They’re at ~60% total power from renewables in 2025, and increasing every quarter. I’d say they’re doing pretty well! The coal is unfortunate, but was due to the Ukraine war and gas situation.
  - kragen 11mo ago
    > Wind and solar existed in the 70s as well. This is basically nonsense to the extent that it is becoming difficult to extend the presumption of good faith to you. In the 70s solar panels cost US$25+ per peak watt, in 02021-adjusted dollars: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_energy#/media/File:Solar_PV_module_prices.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_energy#/media/File:Solar... Now they cost 5.9¢ per peak watt: https://www.solarserver.de/photovoltaik-preis-pv-modul-preisindex/ https://www.solarserver.de/photovoltaik-preis-pv-modul-preis... Installing a gigawatt of solar power generation capacity for US$25 billion is in no way comparable to installing a gigawatt of solar power generation capacity for US$59 million. Wind power has experienced a similar but less extreme cost decline.

toomuchtodo 11mo ago

> If France–a country known for its strong labour laws and unions–could transition to nuclear in the '70s, any Western country can do it. France had to nationalize EDF because they could not afford the costs associated with their nuclear fleet. The 70s are 50 years in the past, and are not what the future will look like. This is also why Spain plans to retire its remaining nuclear generators, and go all in on renewables. EDF fleet upkeep will cost over 100 billion euros by 2035, court of auditors says - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/edf-fleet-upkeep-will-cost-over-100-billion-euros-by-2035-court-auditors-says-2025-11-17/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/edf-fleet-upkeep-wil... - November 17th, 2025 French utility EDF lifts cost estimate for new reactors to 67 billion euros - Les Echos - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/french-utility-edf-lifts-cost-estimate-new-reactors-67-bln-euros-les-echos-2024-03-04/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/french-utility-edf-l... - March 4th, 2024 Explainer-Why a French plan to take full control of EDF is no cure-all - https://www.euronews.com/next/2022/07/07/edf-nationalistion https://www.euronews.com/next/2022/07/07/edf-nationalistion - July 7th, 2022 Spain’s Nuclear Shutdown Set to Test Renewables Success Story - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-04-11/spain-s-nuclear-shutdown-set-to-test-renewables-success-story https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-04-11/spain-s-n... | https://archive.today/4fB7K https://archive.today/4fB7K - April 11th, 2025 (“Spain is a postcard, a glimpse into the future where you’re not going to need baseload generators from 8am to 5pm” with solar and wind providing all of the grid’s needs during that time, said Kesavarthiniy Savarimuthu, a European power markets analyst with BloombergNEF. Still, she said, there is a reasonable chance this goal may take longer than expected and “extending the life of the nuclear fleet can prove as an insurance for these delays.”) (My note: As of this comment, Spain has 7.12GW of nuclear generation capacity per ree.es, and assuming ~1GW/month deployment rate seen in Germany, could replace this capacity with solar and batteries in ~28-36 months; per Electricity Maps, only 17.25% of Spain's electrical generation over the last twelve months has been sourced from this nuclear) Tangentially, Europe has enough wind potential to power the world, for scale.

nagisa 11mo ago

The options in the '70s were much different from those of today. And for France specifically what they have underground (lots of uranium, no oil, no gas & no coal) strongly suggested exactly one way forward.

cbmuser 11mo ago
Wind and solar existed in the 70s as well. Plus, Germany invested 500 billion Euros in its energy transition and is STILL heavily dependent on coal.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- bronson 11mo ago
  > Wind and solar existed in the 70s as well. Not really. Solar has gone down in price almost 500X since 1975. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/solar-pv-prices https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/solar-pv-prices Wind has gone down significantly too. https://docs.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/54526.pdf https://docs.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/54526.pdf Meanwhile, the graph for nuclear waste disposal is going rapidly in the opposite direction. https://www.ans.org/news/article-6587/us-spent-fuel-liability-jumps-to-445-billion/ https://www.ans.org/news/article-6587/us-spent-fuel-liabilit... http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2024/ph240/kendall1/ http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2024/ph240/kendall1/
- dalyons 11mo ago
  They’re at ~60% total power from renewables in 2025, and increasing every quarter. I’d say they’re doing pretty well! The coal is unfortunate, but was due to the Ukraine war and gas situation.
- kragen 11mo ago
  > Wind and solar existed in the 70s as well. This is basically nonsense to the extent that it is becoming difficult to extend the presumption of good faith to you. In the 70s solar panels cost US$25+ per peak watt, in 02021-adjusted dollars: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_energy#/media/File:Solar_PV_module_prices.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_energy#/media/File:Solar... Now they cost 5.9¢ per peak watt: https://www.solarserver.de/photovoltaik-preis-pv-modul-preisindex/ https://www.solarserver.de/photovoltaik-preis-pv-modul-preis... Installing a gigawatt of solar power generation capacity for US$25 billion is in no way comparable to installing a gigawatt of solar power generation capacity for US$59 million. Wind power has experienced a similar but less extreme cost decline.