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> (200x) "Never bet against x86" -> (202x) "Never bet against ARM" Citation needed. There is only 1 workstation maker with ARM: Apple.

by hulitu 1y ago

Octoth0rpe 1y ago
nvidia dgx spark? also, system76 has one: https://system76.com/desktops/thelio-astra-a1.1-n1/configure https://system76.com/desktops/thelio-astra-a1.1-n1/configure also, dell: https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/desktop-computers/dell-pro-max-with-gb10/spd/dell-pro-max-fcm1253-micro/xcto_fcm1253_usx https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/desktop-computers/dell-pro-m... HP is coming soon, will be called `ZGX Nano AI Station` apparently Also lenovo: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/workstations/thinkstation-p-series/lenovo-thinkstation-pgx-sff/len102s0023 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/workstations/thinkstation-p-s...
- ndiddy 1y ago
  All of those use the same nVidia chip and the same nVidia provided Linux distro. Personally I'd be wary of spending $3500+ on a system that relies on nVidia support. They previously released an AI focused SBC, the Jetson Nano, that shipped with a custom distro based on the already aging Ubuntu 18.04, then abandoned support for it after a few years. All the dependencies required to run ML/AI stuff became outdated, and the hardware is now basically useless. It's possible to run mainline Linux on it, but you can't do anything with the GPU since that requires a special one-off driver that never got upstreamed.
  - Octoth0rpe 1y ago
    > All of those use the same nVidia chip and the same nVidia provided Linux distro The system76 one uses an ampere chip, but a discrete nvidia card; so not quite the same. Generally I agree, I do not mix nvidia/linux. The point is that arm workstations are clearly being produced by many different vendors at this point.
    - ndiddy 1y ago
      Thanks for pointing that out, I must have skipped over the system76 link. You're right that besides Apple, nVidia and Ampere also make viable ARM workstation chips.
afr0ck 1y ago
There are Qualcomm laptops now I believe (at least that's what I heard when I was last working for them). NXP also made some boxes (I own a bunch of them). The server market is also growing with Ampere and Cavium (now Novell) which I have both.
- cayleyh 1y ago
  Also AWS Graviton and Google Axion servers & VMs on those clouds
PaulHoule 1y ago
You can get ARM-based PCs and laptops. Thing is so far they all suck except for Apple right now. I sure as hell hope that if Qualcomm even comes close to parity with other platforms they change their name because I'm going to have a hard time associated Snapdragon and their other products with anything that is quality. So far these are for desktop CPUs what https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant is for cars. On the other hand, Intel is doing everything it can to keep the x86 platform from advancing which will let even the laggards catch up.
- lproven 1y ago
  > You can get ARM-based PCs and laptops. Thing is so far they all suck except for Apple right now. This is true, but there's a consolation -- they suck much much less than RISC-V kit. I run a bunch of nearly 15 year old laptops. I am not a performance addict. But I have not laid fingers on a RISC-V box I'd be willing to spend a morning on.
  - snvzz 1y ago
    That'll be true for a few months at best. The first RVA23 and development boards are coming. Tenstorrent announced Atlantis in the RISC-V Summit, based on Ascalon microarchitecture and due 2026H1.
    - lproven 1y ago
      > That'll be true for a few months at best. The thing is, I have been in this business for 38 years now, and people have been telling me this for at least 3 or 4 years now. Including face-to-face from industry chip makers. Really, honestly, right now, next month, OK, next quarter, but definitely by next year, really, the next generation is coming and it will bring the speed. The performance is coming, really soon. And in fact, it's dire. It's crap. Apple has a huge lead with its Arm chips and although most of the team that made that happen went off to other companies years ago now, nobody else has caught up. Qualcomm isn't there, but it's closer than anyone else. Amazon's server chips look promising but they're huge multicore things, not desktop/single-user devices at all, and they're very expensive in standalone desktops like from System 76. Nobody so far can equal what Arm can do in skilled hands, and I bought my first desktop Arm computer in 1989. I've known that the potential was there for over a third of a century because I was there at the start. I have Raspberry Pi 3, 4 and 5 devices here. Look at this thing: https://system76.com/desktops/thelio-astra-a1.1-n1/configure https://system76.com/desktops/thelio-astra-a1.1-n1/configure It is one hundred times the price of a Pi and can it deliver 100x the single thread performance? No, it cannot. Can any money buy a RISC-V that can compare to the performance of a $60 Pi 5? I don't think it can, and promises of "jam tomorrow" don't cut it.

> (200x) "Never bet against x86" -> (202x) "Never bet against ARM" Citation needed. There is only 1 workstation maker with ARM: Apple.

by hulitu 1y ago

> (200x) "Never bet against x86" -> (202x) "Never bet against ARM" Citation needed. There is only 1 workstation maker with ARM: Apple.

Octoth0rpe 1y ago

nvidia dgx spark? also, system76 has one: https://system76.com/desktops/thelio-astra-a1.1-n1/configure https://system76.com/desktops/thelio-astra-a1.1-n1/configure also, dell: https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/desktop-computers/dell-pro-max-with-gb10/spd/dell-pro-max-fcm1253-micro/xcto_fcm1253_usx https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/desktop-computers/dell-pro-m... HP is coming soon, will be called `ZGX Nano AI Station` apparently Also lenovo: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/workstations/thinkstation-p-series/lenovo-thinkstation-pgx-sff/len102s0023 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/workstations/thinkstation-p-s...

ndiddy 1y ago
All of those use the same nVidia chip and the same nVidia provided Linux distro. Personally I'd be wary of spending $3500+ on a system that relies on nVidia support. They previously released an AI focused SBC, the Jetson Nano, that shipped with a custom distro based on the already aging Ubuntu 18.04, then abandoned support for it after a few years. All the dependencies required to run ML/AI stuff became outdated, and the hardware is now basically useless. It's possible to run mainline Linux on it, but you can't do anything with the GPU since that requires a special one-off driver that never got upstreamed.
- Octoth0rpe 1y ago
  > All of those use the same nVidia chip and the same nVidia provided Linux distro The system76 one uses an ampere chip, but a discrete nvidia card; so not quite the same. Generally I agree, I do not mix nvidia/linux. The point is that arm workstations are clearly being produced by many different vendors at this point.
  - ndiddy 1y ago
    Thanks for pointing that out, I must have skipped over the system76 link. You're right that besides Apple, nVidia and Ampere also make viable ARM workstation chips.

afr0ck 1y ago

There are Qualcomm laptops now I believe (at least that's what I heard when I was last working for them). NXP also made some boxes (I own a bunch of them). The server market is also growing with Ampere and Cavium (now Novell) which I have both.

cayleyh 1y ago
Also AWS Graviton and Google Axion servers & VMs on those clouds

PaulHoule 1y ago

You can get ARM-based PCs and laptops. Thing is so far they all suck except for Apple right now. I sure as hell hope that if Qualcomm even comes close to parity with other platforms they change their name because I'm going to have a hard time associated Snapdragon and their other products with anything that is quality. So far these are for desktop CPUs what https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant is for cars. On the other hand, Intel is doing everything it can to keep the x86 platform from advancing which will let even the laggards catch up.

lproven 1y ago
> You can get ARM-based PCs and laptops. Thing is so far they all suck except for Apple right now. This is true, but there's a consolation -- they suck much much less than RISC-V kit. I run a bunch of nearly 15 year old laptops. I am not a performance addict. But I have not laid fingers on a RISC-V box I'd be willing to spend a morning on.
- snvzz 1y ago
  That'll be true for a few months at best. The first RVA23 and development boards are coming. Tenstorrent announced Atlantis in the RISC-V Summit, based on Ascalon microarchitecture and due 2026H1.
  - lproven 1y ago
    > That'll be true for a few months at best. The thing is, I have been in this business for 38 years now, and people have been telling me this for at least 3 or 4 years now. Including face-to-face from industry chip makers. Really, honestly, right now, next month, OK, next quarter, but definitely by next year, really, the next generation is coming and it will bring the speed. The performance is coming, really soon. And in fact, it's dire. It's crap. Apple has a huge lead with its Arm chips and although most of the team that made that happen went off to other companies years ago now, nobody else has caught up. Qualcomm isn't there, but it's closer than anyone else. Amazon's server chips look promising but they're huge multicore things, not desktop/single-user devices at all, and they're very expensive in standalone desktops like from System 76. Nobody so far can equal what Arm can do in skilled hands, and I bought my first desktop Arm computer in 1989. I've known that the potential was there for over a third of a century because I was there at the start. I have Raspberry Pi 3, 4 and 5 devices here. Look at this thing: https://system76.com/desktops/thelio-astra-a1.1-n1/configure https://system76.com/desktops/thelio-astra-a1.1-n1/configure It is one hundred times the price of a Pi and can it deliver 100x the single thread performance? No, it cannot. Can any money buy a RISC-V that can compare to the performance of a $60 Pi 5? I don't think it can, and promises of "jam tomorrow" don't cut it.