7 ms·

Dissecting Flock Safety: The Cameras Tracking You Are a Security Nightmare [video]

222 points by emsign 11mo ago

echelon 11mo ago
These cameras are showing up everywhere in my state. It's creepy. I had no idea what they were, and now suddenly they're at every intersection, gas station, you name it. I don't like that the government is tracking everyone's movements so openly. I knew they were doing this with cell phone data, but that wasn't so brazen.
- extropic-engine 11mo ago
  did you know that flock has a data sharing contract with ring cameras? amazon’s panopticon is much larger. i believe it is on by default and users have to manually opt out, but i don’t have a ring camera to verify.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - garrettlangley 11mo ago
    [flagged]
    - vanc_cefepime 11mo ago
      Feel free to place a disclosure that you are a cofounder of Flock.
    - CharlesW 11mo ago
      Only sharing specific clips is opt-in¹, but the program and its notifications are on by default. Maybe not surprisingly, consumers aren't asked if they want to participate, and the option is buried enough that most people will never see it. ¹ I'm being generous here. Police can still obtain Ring footage via warrants or "emergency" requests that don’t involve the user choosing to share anything.
      - lysace 11mo ago
        So your concern here is spam of unsolicited requests from LE to consider sharing data related to some local event?
    - spaceguillotine 11mo ago
      hey, while I have you here Mr CEO, why are you comfortable allowing abusive cops the tech to stalk and harass former partners, I've met women that had ex husbands in the FBI that kept chasing them across country to continue the abuse and your camera systems help enable those acts. I hope you lose sleep like those women do.
      - extropic-engine 11mo ago
        since the flock CEO’s comment is dead, i hope you don’t mind if i reply to him here. Your wealth and power will not save you. Your rich friends will not save you. Turning off the monstrosity you are helping to create and reckoning with what you have already done in the world is the only thing that will. If there is still any shard of humanity left in you, I hope this finds it. It is not too late to turn away from the path you chose. But it soon will be. And there will be a reckoning either way.
    - queenkjuul 11mo ago
      Texas cops used your data to harass abortion recipients. FBI agents used it to abuse former partners. You want to make the world safer? Shut down your company.
- diogenes_atx 11mo ago
  Here in Austin, the city council no longer allows Flock ALPR's (automated license plate readers) on city streets, but Home Depot and other businesses still use them in their parking lots, and they scan your vehicle license plate every time you enter and exit the premises. Flock sells its data to ICE and law enforcement.
  - garrettlangley 11mo ago
    [flagged]
    - deleted 11mo ago
      [deleted]
    - CharlesW 11mo ago
      Correct. Flock sells cameras and platform access, but gives data from their shared, nationwide surveillance utility to ICE and law enforcement. https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/flock-massachusetts-and-updates https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/flock-massachus... https://www.404media.co/ice-taps-into-nationwide-ai-enabled-camera-network-data-shows/ https://www.404media.co/ice-taps-into-nationwide-ai-enabled-... https://www.aclu.org/news/national-security/surveillance-company-flock-now-using-ai-to-report-us-to-police-if-it-thinks-our-movement-patterns-are-suspicious https://www.aclu.org/news/national-security/surveillance-com...
      - tptacek 11mo ago
        I don't like that this is the case, but you understand that a pretty huge fraction of the country doesn't share your set of political premises that providing data for immigration enforcement is unethical, right? (I do, but that shouldn't matter for the analysis.) It seems weird to me to hyperfocus on Flock's role here rather than the role your own local municipalities play in deciding how to configure these things. Not sharing with ICE is apparently quite doable? At least to the point of requiring a court order to get access to the data, which is a vulnerability all online cameras share. Later s/company/country, thanks for the correction!
- projektfu 11mo ago
  Here was the CEO back in 2017: "Alexro, there are clear and large signs about the cameras at the entrance to our neighborhoods. "Our neighborhoods are not large public roads, they are typically 100-400 home communities. You would never have to enter the community." Now, it's clear that the cameras are not always obviously marked, they are not always in small communities, and they are often now on public thoroughfares. i go past at least one every day and it is not within a subdivision, rather it's on a main thoroughfare. It is marked, but a sign that is readable at 5 MPH is not necessarily readable at 35 MPH. It doesn't help to mark it "Flock" because I don't know who it is for. Presumably, someone who has permission to the data can use it for legitimate investigations. Or they can use it for illicit investigations. Or share it with others for their own investigations. Or exchange it for other data they care about. And since we're not the "customer", what can we do about it? We're the target.
  - RandomBacon 11mo ago
    I take down scam bandit signs [0]. Since I noticed the Flock signs in one neighborhood, I no longer enter that neighborhood to take down the scam bandit signs. [0] "Text us to see if you qaulify for (some non-existent) government program to get free (things)" I hope that neighborhood enjoys the flock cameras more than the visual blight and their neighbors getting scammed.
    - deleted 11mo ago
      [deleted]
walterbell 11mo ago
"Find Nearby Automated License Plate Readers (ALPR)" (70 comments), https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45487452 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45487452 Adversarial computer vision and DIY OSS $250 RPi Hailo ALPR (2M views), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp9MwZkHiMQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp9MwZkHiMQ "Tire Pressure Sensor IDs: Why, Where and When (2015)" (30 comments), https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45490202 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45490202
baby_souffle 11mo ago
Ooof. When I heard "android things" I knew they had a problem. It was a google project that had little adoption and was killed only a few years after it was announced (so, better than average for google, then?). I wonder what they estimate the "replace with newer" cost to be versus the "figure out how to deploy $modernAndroid fleet wide" costs. Bonus points if you express it as a percentage of CEO's compensation / company wide revenue.
conradev 11mo ago
The camera companies always end up having a lot in common: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/ftc_gov/pdf/2123068verkadacomplaint.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/ftc_gov/pdf/2123068verkadac...
- JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
  …what’s the commonality?
  - spaceguillotine 11mo ago
    lack of security it looks like
  - conradev 11mo ago
    Should've included a bit more but the title does a good job: The Cameras Tracking You Are a Security Nightmare It's pretty consistent across camera tracking companies. Facial recognition more broadly, like Clearview AI as well. I don't have a unifying theory other than it's a very obvious business model that naturally accrues power as well. Not unlike... selling drugs. The model is not entirely unhelpful: selling better drugs might be one of the few practical solutions here. If cameras have undeniably visible benefits for private companies and public safety (I think they ultimately will), then the question is how to build them in a way that avoids accrual of centralized power while providing the benefits. You can attack that problem from a lot of angles, but at the moment it is undeniably hard to build video sensing in a way that doesn't rely on centralized (computing) power.
    - mycall 11mo ago
      Will public safety improve or will big brother have a stronger grip on your digital life?
- NicoJuicy 11mo ago
  Not all of them. At my workplace (the parent company, actually), security and privacy are among the highest priorities. Competing with companies that don’t share these values is a “slow path.” For instance, one of the most common requests is integrating our VMS with Chinese cameras, because of cost. While we’ve done it in the past, using a hardware device to prevent unexpected protocol communication, our CEO concluded that it was ethically questionable given our principles. TLDR: The feature was dropped, and you can imagine that this decision had a significant impact on sales. Pretty bold move, honestly. Because of things like that, that's why I stay.
rpcope1 11mo ago
It's not just Flock anymore. Another Y Combinator startup, Blissway has been putting cameras in a lot of places in Colorado, and you can't tell me it's not going to be used for exactly the same shit.
- JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
  Would the local laws banning Flock also apply to Blissway?
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
Could someone who’s been successful at getting these banned at the local level speak to how they did it? (We’ve recently had some high-profile political fundraisers in my town. Our state’s FOIA is halfway powerful, and a few of us were considering publishing maps of the routes they and they security details took, to illustrate how these products compromise our safety. But that strikes me as more of a fun publicity stunt than anything that would force the county.)
- sbuttgereit 11mo ago
  This is the most serious effort I've seen: https://ij.org/press-release/judge-rules-lawsuit-challenging-norfolks-use-of-flock-cameras-can-proceed/ https://ij.org/press-release/judge-rules-lawsuit-challenging... Not exactly trying to get new legislation passed but working within the courts to set some boundaries.
- spaceguillotine 11mo ago
  request every shot taken outside of police depts and compile a list of private plate numbers for all the cops, watch shit change hella fast
  - tptacek 11mo ago
    Why do you think this would work? First, even where Flock data is FOIA-able, raw camera feed data probably isn't ("probably" because I don't know the law in your state, just Illinois). Second, what do you think you'd find?
- cfraenkel 11mo ago
  This article might point to a way: https://neuburger.substack.com/p/cities-panic-over-having-to-release https://neuburger.substack.com/p/cities-panic-over-having-to...
- thaumaturgy 11mo ago
  I have been able to get them deactivated in two cities. They have not yet been physically removed but that is looking like a likely near-term outcome. Flock has been a "side project" that's been eating about as many hours as a part-time job since late June. I have spoken at city council meetings in two cities, met individually with city councilors, met with a chief of police, presented to city councilors in Portland, am in almost daily conversations with ACLU Oregon, have received legal advice from EFF, done numerous media interviews, and I have an upcoming presentation to the state Senate Judiciary Committee. I may also be one of the reasons that Ron Wyden's office investigated Flock more carefully over the Summer and recently released a letter suggesting that cities terminate their relationship with the company. All of which is to say I've been in it for a while now and have had some wins. Good and bad news: it's a lot easier to fight it now than it was in June, but it's still going to take more effort than you probably imagine. You'll need a team. I'm one member of a community working group. We have a core group of about a half-dozen active organizers. We have filed (and paid thousands in fees for) tons of public records requests, done a lot of community organizing and outreach, built partnerships with adjacent activist organizations, and done original technical research. There are a couple of different strategies to pursue that can kick these things out of a community. My recommendation is to find the one that you like best, and find other people that like other ones, and pursue them in parallel. Depending on your local police department, you may find them to be surprisingly cooperative, or you may find that they dig in and start putting in an equal amount of effort to block yours. I've had both. Odds are that your city councilors are not aware at all of what Flock is or how it works, so your first step is to raise awareness. I strongly recommend starting with an approach that makes you seem like a reasonable, honest, and reliable member of your community. I realize this comment isn't super helpful by itself. I'm a bit distracted at the moment and I don't think I could figure out how to write a helpful, comprehensive, and yet concise comment here on this. I need to put together an info packet for people that want to get efforts like this one started in their own community. In the meanwhile, you should be able to email contact@eyesoffeugene.org and I'm happy to provide advice and assistance to anyone that wants to take this up in their city.
gnarlouse 11mo ago
Make Classwarfare MAD Again
- wakawaka28 11mo ago
  We're talking about cameras my dude. They see everybody.
  - throawayonthe 11mo ago
    not everybody sees what the cameras see, what's your point
    - wakawaka28 11mo ago
      The cameras affect rich people too. In fact, if you're rich, you have more to lose from being tracked. What is YOUR point?
      - throawayonthe 11mo ago
        the point is the class component? it's not the plebs operating the cameras lol
        wakawaka28 11mo ago
        Actually it probably is plebs using the cameras, mainly... I know what you're trying to say but it's a stretch to say that this is a class issue. It may be true that the camera companies have rich owners but that's only a tiny number of rich people. The cameras spy on everybody. The more you have, the more you have to lose from being spied on.
woliveirajr 11mo ago
I'll just leave this one here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15075384 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15075384
lgleason 11mo ago
Assuming that one is in favor of the use of these cameras, the security issues seem like they are a big problem. The leaking of police officer personal data and locations was pretty egregious. Would love to hear from one of the founders on what they are doing to address that.
culi 11mo ago
This map of Flock cameras[0] is pretty neat. It actually utilizes OpenStreetMap data. It was controversial but at some point in the last decade OSM decided to allow annotating surveillance cameras. You can add all sorts of characteristics including what they're mounted to and which direction they're facing. As well as the manufacturer which is what that map is based on. The open-source project Every Door has been a really convenient on-the-go tool for contributing these annotations[1] [0] https://banishbigbrother.com/flock-camera-map/ https://banishbigbrother.com/flock-camera-map/ [1] https://every-door.app/ https://every-door.app/
- catgirlinspace 11mo ago
  That’s just an iframe embedding https://deflock.me/ https://deflock.me/
  - Fairburn 11mo ago
    And..?
AstroNutt 11mo ago
I was recently in Atlanta GA for work and noticed these cameras were EVERYWHERE! They even have white cars that randomly drive the streets with a camera on each corner of the car, plus one on the roof. 5 total on one car!!! I was wondering why Atlanta was so dystopian and creepy, then I Googled the guy posting here, Garrett Langley. It makes sense now. "Flock was founded in 2017. It was co-founded by three Georgia Tech alumni: Garrett Langley (chief executive officer), Paige Todd (chief people officer), and Matt Feury (chief technology officer)."
- Tarmo362 11mo ago
  [dead]
- tinix 11mo ago
  Waymo is self driving car lol
  - financetechbro 11mo ago
    This cracked me up haha
    - AstroNutt 11mo ago
      Well I'm a dumbass! LOL! In my defense , I've never seen those cars in real life before. I saw all the Flock cameras everywhere and just assumed they were something the police were using. Thanks for pointing this out. I'll go ahead and give myself 10 minutes in the corner of shame.
bob1029 11mo ago
I have developed conflicting feelings over these cameras. I think putting them in high traffic retail areas is a great idea. I've noticed my local Walmart has stopped locking up razors. Home Depot is getting bolder with what they'll chain up in front of the store. I believe these cameras are having some positive effect on our public places. Putting them in private driveways or in residential areas is where it starts to get really obnoxious. If you are not happy with the idea of things like felony retail/automobile theft, there aren't unlimited solutions available. Some kind of dystopian surveillance grid is perhaps the least crappy option today, all things considered. If you want to see an alternative, look to Singapore for the ~other option. I would be very open to a conversation about trading the Eye of Sauron for caning.

222 points by emsign 11mo ago

These cameras are showing up everywhere in my state. It's creepy. I had no idea what they were, and now suddenly they're at every intersection, gas station, you name it. I don't like that the government is tracking everyone's movements so openly. I knew they were doing this with cell phone data, but that wasn't so brazen.

extropic-engine 11mo ago
did you know that flock has a data sharing contract with ring cameras? amazon’s panopticon is much larger. i believe it is on by default and users have to manually opt out, but i don’t have a ring camera to verify.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- garrettlangley 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - vanc_cefepime 11mo ago
    Feel free to place a disclosure that you are a cofounder of Flock.
  - CharlesW 11mo ago
    Only sharing specific clips is opt-in¹, but the program and its notifications are on by default. Maybe not surprisingly, consumers aren't asked if they want to participate, and the option is buried enough that most people will never see it. ¹ I'm being generous here. Police can still obtain Ring footage via warrants or "emergency" requests that don’t involve the user choosing to share anything.
    - lysace 11mo ago
      So your concern here is spam of unsolicited requests from LE to consider sharing data related to some local event?
  - spaceguillotine 11mo ago
    hey, while I have you here Mr CEO, why are you comfortable allowing abusive cops the tech to stalk and harass former partners, I've met women that had ex husbands in the FBI that kept chasing them across country to continue the abuse and your camera systems help enable those acts. I hope you lose sleep like those women do.
    - extropic-engine 11mo ago
      since the flock CEO’s comment is dead, i hope you don’t mind if i reply to him here. Your wealth and power will not save you. Your rich friends will not save you. Turning off the monstrosity you are helping to create and reckoning with what you have already done in the world is the only thing that will. If there is still any shard of humanity left in you, I hope this finds it. It is not too late to turn away from the path you chose. But it soon will be. And there will be a reckoning either way.
  - queenkjuul 11mo ago
    Texas cops used your data to harass abortion recipients. FBI agents used it to abuse former partners. You want to make the world safer? Shut down your company.
diogenes_atx 11mo ago
Here in Austin, the city council no longer allows Flock ALPR's (automated license plate readers) on city streets, but Home Depot and other businesses still use them in their parking lots, and they scan your vehicle license plate every time you enter and exit the premises. Flock sells its data to ICE and law enforcement.
- garrettlangley 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - CharlesW 11mo ago
    Correct. Flock sells cameras and platform access, but gives data from their shared, nationwide surveillance utility to ICE and law enforcement. https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/flock-massachusetts-and-updates https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/flock-massachus... https://www.404media.co/ice-taps-into-nationwide-ai-enabled-camera-network-data-shows/ https://www.404media.co/ice-taps-into-nationwide-ai-enabled-... https://www.aclu.org/news/national-security/surveillance-company-flock-now-using-ai-to-report-us-to-police-if-it-thinks-our-movement-patterns-are-suspicious https://www.aclu.org/news/national-security/surveillance-com...
    - tptacek 11mo ago
      I don't like that this is the case, but you understand that a pretty huge fraction of the country doesn't share your set of political premises that providing data for immigration enforcement is unethical, right? (I do, but that shouldn't matter for the analysis.) It seems weird to me to hyperfocus on Flock's role here rather than the role your own local municipalities play in deciding how to configure these things. Not sharing with ICE is apparently quite doable? At least to the point of requiring a court order to get access to the data, which is a vulnerability all online cameras share. Later s/company/country, thanks for the correction!
projektfu 11mo ago
Here was the CEO back in 2017: "Alexro, there are clear and large signs about the cameras at the entrance to our neighborhoods. "Our neighborhoods are not large public roads, they are typically 100-400 home communities. You would never have to enter the community." Now, it's clear that the cameras are not always obviously marked, they are not always in small communities, and they are often now on public thoroughfares. i go past at least one every day and it is not within a subdivision, rather it's on a main thoroughfare. It is marked, but a sign that is readable at 5 MPH is not necessarily readable at 35 MPH. It doesn't help to mark it "Flock" because I don't know who it is for. Presumably, someone who has permission to the data can use it for legitimate investigations. Or they can use it for illicit investigations. Or share it with others for their own investigations. Or exchange it for other data they care about. And since we're not the "customer", what can we do about it? We're the target.
- RandomBacon 11mo ago
  I take down scam bandit signs [0]. Since I noticed the Flock signs in one neighborhood, I no longer enter that neighborhood to take down the scam bandit signs. [0] "Text us to see if you qaulify for (some non-existent) government program to get free (things)" I hope that neighborhood enjoys the flock cameras more than the visual blight and their neighbors getting scammed.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]

walterbell 11mo ago

"Find Nearby Automated License Plate Readers (ALPR)" (70 comments), https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45487452 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45487452 Adversarial computer vision and DIY OSS $250 RPi Hailo ALPR (2M views), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp9MwZkHiMQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp9MwZkHiMQ "Tire Pressure Sensor IDs: Why, Where and When (2015)" (30 comments), https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45490202 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45490202

baby_souffle 11mo ago

Ooof. When I heard "android things" I knew they had a problem. It was a google project that had little adoption and was killed only a few years after it was announced (so, better than average for google, then?). I wonder what they estimate the "replace with newer" cost to be versus the "figure out how to deploy $modernAndroid fleet wide" costs. Bonus points if you express it as a percentage of CEO's compensation / company wide revenue.

conradev 11mo ago

The camera companies always end up having a lot in common: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/ftc_gov/pdf/2123068verkadacomplaint.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/ftc_gov/pdf/2123068verkadac...

JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
…what’s the commonality?
- spaceguillotine 11mo ago
  lack of security it looks like
- conradev 11mo ago
  Should've included a bit more but the title does a good job: The Cameras Tracking You Are a Security Nightmare It's pretty consistent across camera tracking companies. Facial recognition more broadly, like Clearview AI as well. I don't have a unifying theory other than it's a very obvious business model that naturally accrues power as well. Not unlike... selling drugs. The model is not entirely unhelpful: selling better drugs might be one of the few practical solutions here. If cameras have undeniably visible benefits for private companies and public safety (I think they ultimately will), then the question is how to build them in a way that avoids accrual of centralized power while providing the benefits. You can attack that problem from a lot of angles, but at the moment it is undeniably hard to build video sensing in a way that doesn't rely on centralized (computing) power.
  - mycall 11mo ago
    Will public safety improve or will big brother have a stronger grip on your digital life?
NicoJuicy 11mo ago
Not all of them. At my workplace (the parent company, actually), security and privacy are among the highest priorities. Competing with companies that don’t share these values is a “slow path.” For instance, one of the most common requests is integrating our VMS with Chinese cameras, because of cost. While we’ve done it in the past, using a hardware device to prevent unexpected protocol communication, our CEO concluded that it was ethically questionable given our principles. TLDR: The feature was dropped, and you can imagine that this decision had a significant impact on sales. Pretty bold move, honestly. Because of things like that, that's why I stay.

rpcope1 11mo ago

It's not just Flock anymore. Another Y Combinator startup, Blissway has been putting cameras in a lot of places in Colorado, and you can't tell me it's not going to be used for exactly the same shit.

JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
Would the local laws banning Flock also apply to Blissway?
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]

JumpCrisscross 11mo ago

Could someone who’s been successful at getting these banned at the local level speak to how they did it? (We’ve recently had some high-profile political fundraisers in my town. Our state’s FOIA is halfway powerful, and a few of us were considering publishing maps of the routes they and they security details took, to illustrate how these products compromise our safety. But that strikes me as more of a fun publicity stunt than anything that would force the county.)

sbuttgereit 11mo ago
This is the most serious effort I've seen: https://ij.org/press-release/judge-rules-lawsuit-challenging-norfolks-use-of-flock-cameras-can-proceed/ https://ij.org/press-release/judge-rules-lawsuit-challenging... Not exactly trying to get new legislation passed but working within the courts to set some boundaries.
spaceguillotine 11mo ago
request every shot taken outside of police depts and compile a list of private plate numbers for all the cops, watch shit change hella fast
- tptacek 11mo ago
  Why do you think this would work? First, even where Flock data is FOIA-able, raw camera feed data probably isn't ("probably" because I don't know the law in your state, just Illinois). Second, what do you think you'd find?
cfraenkel 11mo ago
This article might point to a way: https://neuburger.substack.com/p/cities-panic-over-having-to-release https://neuburger.substack.com/p/cities-panic-over-having-to...
thaumaturgy 11mo ago
I have been able to get them deactivated in two cities. They have not yet been physically removed but that is looking like a likely near-term outcome. Flock has been a "side project" that's been eating about as many hours as a part-time job since late June. I have spoken at city council meetings in two cities, met individually with city councilors, met with a chief of police, presented to city councilors in Portland, am in almost daily conversations with ACLU Oregon, have received legal advice from EFF, done numerous media interviews, and I have an upcoming presentation to the state Senate Judiciary Committee. I may also be one of the reasons that Ron Wyden's office investigated Flock more carefully over the Summer and recently released a letter suggesting that cities terminate their relationship with the company. All of which is to say I've been in it for a while now and have had some wins. Good and bad news: it's a lot easier to fight it now than it was in June, but it's still going to take more effort than you probably imagine. You'll need a team. I'm one member of a community working group. We have a core group of about a half-dozen active organizers. We have filed (and paid thousands in fees for) tons of public records requests, done a lot of community organizing and outreach, built partnerships with adjacent activist organizations, and done original technical research. There are a couple of different strategies to pursue that can kick these things out of a community. My recommendation is to find the one that you like best, and find other people that like other ones, and pursue them in parallel. Depending on your local police department, you may find them to be surprisingly cooperative, or you may find that they dig in and start putting in an equal amount of effort to block yours. I've had both. Odds are that your city councilors are not aware at all of what Flock is or how it works, so your first step is to raise awareness. I strongly recommend starting with an approach that makes you seem like a reasonable, honest, and reliable member of your community. I realize this comment isn't super helpful by itself. I'm a bit distracted at the moment and I don't think I could figure out how to write a helpful, comprehensive, and yet concise comment here on this. I need to put together an info packet for people that want to get efforts like this one started in their own community. In the meanwhile, you should be able to email contact@eyesoffeugene.org and I'm happy to provide advice and assistance to anyone that wants to take this up in their city.

gnarlouse 11mo ago

Make Classwarfare MAD Again

wakawaka28 11mo ago
We're talking about cameras my dude. They see everybody.
- throawayonthe 11mo ago
  not everybody sees what the cameras see, what's your point
  - wakawaka28 11mo ago
    The cameras affect rich people too. In fact, if you're rich, you have more to lose from being tracked. What is YOUR point?
    - throawayonthe 11mo ago
      the point is the class component? it's not the plebs operating the cameras lol
      - wakawaka28 11mo ago
        Actually it probably is plebs using the cameras, mainly... I know what you're trying to say but it's a stretch to say that this is a class issue. It may be true that the camera companies have rich owners but that's only a tiny number of rich people. The cameras spy on everybody. The more you have, the more you have to lose from being spied on.

woliveirajr 11mo ago

I'll just leave this one here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15075384 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15075384

lgleason 11mo ago

Assuming that one is in favor of the use of these cameras, the security issues seem like they are a big problem. The leaking of police officer personal data and locations was pretty egregious. Would love to hear from one of the founders on what they are doing to address that.

culi 11mo ago

This map of Flock cameras[0] is pretty neat. It actually utilizes OpenStreetMap data. It was controversial but at some point in the last decade OSM decided to allow annotating surveillance cameras. You can add all sorts of characteristics including what they're mounted to and which direction they're facing. As well as the manufacturer which is what that map is based on. The open-source project Every Door has been a really convenient on-the-go tool for contributing these annotations[1] [0] https://banishbigbrother.com/flock-camera-map/ https://banishbigbrother.com/flock-camera-map/ [1] https://every-door.app/ https://every-door.app/

catgirlinspace 11mo ago
That’s just an iframe embedding https://deflock.me/ https://deflock.me/
- Fairburn 11mo ago
  And..?

AstroNutt 11mo ago

I was recently in Atlanta GA for work and noticed these cameras were EVERYWHERE! They even have white cars that randomly drive the streets with a camera on each corner of the car, plus one on the roof. 5 total on one car!!! I was wondering why Atlanta was so dystopian and creepy, then I Googled the guy posting here, Garrett Langley. It makes sense now. "Flock was founded in 2017. It was co-founded by three Georgia Tech alumni: Garrett Langley (chief executive officer), Paige Todd (chief people officer), and Matt Feury (chief technology officer)."

Tarmo362 11mo ago
[dead]
tinix 11mo ago
Waymo is self driving car lol
- financetechbro 11mo ago
  This cracked me up haha
  - AstroNutt 11mo ago
    Well I'm a dumbass! LOL! In my defense , I've never seen those cars in real life before. I saw all the Flock cameras everywhere and just assumed they were something the police were using. Thanks for pointing this out. I'll go ahead and give myself 10 minutes in the corner of shame.

bob1029 11mo ago

I have developed conflicting feelings over these cameras. I think putting them in high traffic retail areas is a great idea. I've noticed my local Walmart has stopped locking up razors. Home Depot is getting bolder with what they'll chain up in front of the store. I believe these cameras are having some positive effect on our public places. Putting them in private driveways or in residential areas is where it starts to get really obnoxious. If you are not happy with the idea of things like felony retail/automobile theft, there aren't unlimited solutions available. Some kind of dystopian surveillance grid is perhaps the least crappy option today, all things considered. If you want to see an alternative, look to Singapore for the ~other option. I would be very open to a conversation about trading the Eye of Sauron for caning.