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Irrational? That's like saying the Allies response to the Nazi's was irrational. Come to think of it, maybe that's the solution. After WW2 the Allies "DeNazifi

Irrational? That's like saying the Allies response to the Nazi's was irrational. Come to think of it, maybe that's the solution. After WW2 the Allies "DeNazified" Germany by dismantling Nazi organizations, removing Nazis from public life, and trying prominent war criminals. It also included symbolic actions like changing street names, as well as re-educating the German population in democratic values. I'm keenly aware that there are significant sections of Israel and non-Israeli Jews who stand shoulder to shoulder fighting against what is happening in Israel. But it's not enough. Israel should go through a process similar to DeNazification.

immibis 11mo ago
I live in Germany and I can tell you German denazification was a complete failure. Yes they're not run by a party calling itself NSDAP. Yes there haven't been concentration camps. Yes everyone knows you have to protect Jews. But the underlying feelings are still there - they're just directed towards different groups. Germany is inching closer to doing it again with Muslims.
- LightBug1 11mo ago
  Interesting perspective. However (and give me some rope here), I'd still argue that, somehow, Germany emerged from WW2, eventually, as a relatively sane and democratic country compared to where it had been during and prior to the war. So it wasn't a complete failure. All countries, as we're sadly finding out now, have a nasty undercurrent. Particularly now, but nothing compared to Nazi Germany in terms of its ideological underpinnings. However, the indiscriminate hatred, dehumanisation, and, yes, genocide on display from Israel echoes what I've studied in Hitlers Germany. And so, again, I'll argue Israel needs a similar program of DeNazification. I don't know how you get there, because they haven't been "defeated" and are in fact being supported. But that is what is needed in Israel.
  - UltraSane 11mo ago
    Palestinians need an equivalent purging of their unattainable goal of defeating Israel with force.
    - LightBug1 11mo ago
      "Equivalent"... So it sounds like we're in agreement that Israel needs a DeNazification-style purge also. I think we're getting somewhere.
      - UltraSane 11mo ago
        The use of the term Nazi is deeply stupid. But Israel does need to chill a bit and care more about their global PR. But they are surrounded by countries that really DO want to destroy them so I can understand why they are so trigger happy. The way they destroyed Hezbollah was brilliant. The Hamas charter is a giant Islamist Jew-hating rant.
        api 11mo ago
        It’s hard for me not to have a “black pilled” view of this region. They’ll never have peace until they actually want it. There’s too many nuts on every side whose whole purpose for living is to see anyone who isn’t just like them dead. Unfortunately the regular civilian who live in this region suffer for it. The only way out I can see would be some kind of cross border cross culture mass uprising against all the fanatics and those who fund and enable them. It should also serve as a warning for us. We can have peace and prosperity because we have, as a culture, managed to restrain these kinds of impulses. We flirt with hyper polarization and fanatical ideologies at our own peril. Those who promote this stuff for short term political or economic gain should be compared, maybe, to people playing around with dangerous gain of function research on disease organisms. This stuff takes hold and our countries will look like the war zones of the Middle East.
        UltraSane 11mo ago
        People really like to gloss over how deeply rooted Jew hatred is in Islam. The Koran contains blatant hate speech against Jews and this is the primary reason why Muslims resent the existence of Israel so irrationally
  - immibis 11mo ago
    > Particularly now, but nothing compared to Nazi Germany This statement is copium, and part of the problem. The first half of Nazi Germany was nothing compared to the second half. Hitler was chancellor for 11 years, and every year was worse than the one before. The war and the Holocaust only happened towards the end. And the trajectory the USA has been going on so far is not dissimilar to the first half of the Nazis.
UltraSane 11mo ago
Hamas's explicit goal is to destroy Israel.
- LightBug1 11mo ago
  And? ... do you expect me to take that as justification for what has gone on? /Rhetorical.
  - UltraSane 11mo ago
    [flagged]
    - LightBug1 11mo ago
      No. Do you? And this is what you dickheads always do. Answer a question you won't answer with another (in this case, extremely dumbass) question. I'll try again ... do you expect me to take that as justification for what has gone on? Though you'll forgive me for not caring for your answer considering your performance thus far.

immibis 11mo ago

I live in Germany and I can tell you German denazification was a complete failure. Yes they're not run by a party calling itself NSDAP. Yes there haven't been concentration camps. Yes everyone knows you have to protect Jews. But the underlying feelings are still there - they're just directed towards different groups. Germany is inching closer to doing it again with Muslims.

LightBug1 11mo ago
Interesting perspective. However (and give me some rope here), I'd still argue that, somehow, Germany emerged from WW2, eventually, as a relatively sane and democratic country compared to where it had been during and prior to the war. So it wasn't a complete failure. All countries, as we're sadly finding out now, have a nasty undercurrent. Particularly now, but nothing compared to Nazi Germany in terms of its ideological underpinnings. However, the indiscriminate hatred, dehumanisation, and, yes, genocide on display from Israel echoes what I've studied in Hitlers Germany. And so, again, I'll argue Israel needs a similar program of DeNazification. I don't know how you get there, because they haven't been "defeated" and are in fact being supported. But that is what is needed in Israel.
- UltraSane 11mo ago
  Palestinians need an equivalent purging of their unattainable goal of defeating Israel with force.
  - LightBug1 11mo ago
    "Equivalent"... So it sounds like we're in agreement that Israel needs a DeNazification-style purge also. I think we're getting somewhere.
    - UltraSane 11mo ago
      The use of the term Nazi is deeply stupid. But Israel does need to chill a bit and care more about their global PR. But they are surrounded by countries that really DO want to destroy them so I can understand why they are so trigger happy. The way they destroyed Hezbollah was brilliant. The Hamas charter is a giant Islamist Jew-hating rant.
      - api 11mo ago
        It’s hard for me not to have a “black pilled” view of this region. They’ll never have peace until they actually want it. There’s too many nuts on every side whose whole purpose for living is to see anyone who isn’t just like them dead. Unfortunately the regular civilian who live in this region suffer for it. The only way out I can see would be some kind of cross border cross culture mass uprising against all the fanatics and those who fund and enable them. It should also serve as a warning for us. We can have peace and prosperity because we have, as a culture, managed to restrain these kinds of impulses. We flirt with hyper polarization and fanatical ideologies at our own peril. Those who promote this stuff for short term political or economic gain should be compared, maybe, to people playing around with dangerous gain of function research on disease organisms. This stuff takes hold and our countries will look like the war zones of the Middle East.
        UltraSane 11mo ago
        People really like to gloss over how deeply rooted Jew hatred is in Islam. The Koran contains blatant hate speech against Jews and this is the primary reason why Muslims resent the existence of Israel so irrationally
- immibis 11mo ago
  > Particularly now, but nothing compared to Nazi Germany This statement is copium, and part of the problem. The first half of Nazi Germany was nothing compared to the second half. Hitler was chancellor for 11 years, and every year was worse than the one before. The war and the Holocaust only happened towards the end. And the trajectory the USA has been going on so far is not dissimilar to the first half of the Nazis.

UltraSane 11mo ago

Hamas's explicit goal is to destroy Israel.

LightBug1 11mo ago
And? ... do you expect me to take that as justification for what has gone on? /Rhetorical.
- UltraSane 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - LightBug1 11mo ago
    No. Do you? And this is what you dickheads always do. Answer a question you won't answer with another (in this case, extremely dumbass) question. I'll try again ... do you expect me to take that as justification for what has gone on? Though you'll forgive me for not caring for your answer considering your performance thus far.