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We did "free" lunch for all here a couple of years ago. The idea is great, execution is terrible. You can't get a la carte free, only the full "FDA approved"

We did "free" lunch for all here a couple of years ago. The idea is great, execution is terrible. You can't get a la carte free, only the full "FDA approved" lunch is free. So if you forget a drink, or just want to add a snack to your own packed lunch, you go get the whole thing and throw everything else away. The elementary school tried adding the "share table" where you can put anything you don't want so that someone else could pick it up, but that was shut down because they could assure the feds that everyone was getting a "balanced" lunch. My highschooler tells me of all the kids going through line multiple times to get pizza on pizza day and then throwing the rest away because they don't want that. Of course we had a second tax that was approved this year because the free lunches were more expensive than they had planned. Wonder why.

64756salad638 11mo ago
If you wouldn’t mind sharing, what school district was this? I’m curious to research and learn more! What accounts for the budget overrun? Are there stats on how many free meals were taken per student (especially if this was broken down on a per-day basis, this could back up the “pizza” explanation)?
Spivak 11mo ago
I mean this is the nanny state at its best. Getting in the way of progress because you refuse to meet people, in this case kids, where they actually are. The challenge should be minimizing the amount of waste—cook literally anything where the kids will clean their plates then try to nudge toward healthier options while keeping your waste % low. Let them take any subset of the lunch as they please, prune dishes kids either don't take or leave behind until you have a menu. Mind boggling how getting the kids actually fed is lower on the priority list than making sure they eat the "right" things.
- pxc 11mo ago
  Agreed, though the term makes for a funny metaphor in this case— a good nanny would likely take the same approach you describe here: meeting the kids where they're at and trying to encourage them to eat better along the way instead of making food just for it to be thrown away.
- somerandomqaguy 11mo ago
  Not exactly easy. The US military (hell just about every army on the planet) spends a lot of money and effort into developing field rations that are palatable enough for infantry sections on the move to eat in it's entirety. I can't imagine developing it for far more numerous school children is going to be any easier.
  - thaumasiotes 11mo ago
    > The US military (hell just about every army on the planet) spends a lot of money and effort into developing field rations that are palatable enough for infantry sections on the move to eat in it's entirety. Why? That's not even a real concept. If you want everyone to like everything they have, you can't do that without letting them trade away the stuff they hate.
    - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
      > Why? You don’t want the dude trading away everything for desserts kapooting midway mission because his bowels are in uprising.
      - thaumasiotes 11mo ago
        So what? If you think that problem exists in the first place, you still have no choice but to address it by doing something that is possible to do.
        JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
        > address it by doing something that is possible Yes, a military study was conducted that found it unproductive to do the impossible…
        chris_wot 11mo ago
        Hey, the U.N. recently wrote a report that most U.N. Reports aren’t read. It happens.
- pqtyw 11mo ago
  > literally anything where the kids will clean their plates then Feeding kids sugar and hen nudging them to eat slightly less sugar while still providing inherently unhealthy meals seems suboptimal. Them cleaning their plates is not an inherently a good thing. Rather the opposite. > making sure they eat the "right" things. Certainly better than feeding them the wrong things? though. It's not like starvation or malnourishment is the main issue when a significant proportion of children are overweight. Them eating crap is...
  - Spivak 11mo ago
    It's always a treat when the exact problem I'm describing shows up in the replies. Yes feed them sugar. Children have a significantly heightened sweet tooth until adolescence where it slowly declines and they develop more complex tastes and a tolerance for "adult" flavors. When I bake for kids I have to make it cloyingly sweet to an adult palate and it gets snarfed down. And it's also why Funfetti cake doesn't hit like it did as a kid because your tastes have changed. Trying to impose adult standards on kids is native at best and futile in aggregate—you can only serve it, you can't make them eat it and they won't. You understand how moronic it sounds to prepare and serve food that kids won't eat in the hopes that they eat less, right? Plus free lunch programs are to deal with malnourishment and to make sure kids get at least one full meal a day. My elementary school, which was a private school and so wasn't beholden to any government meddling, followed this formula and it worked out great. Every meal was carbs, protein, and sugar, and everything was sweet. It wasn't an apple, it was fruit cocktail in syrup, the pizza had sweetened bread and sauce, vegetables were sweat peas, carrots, and corn. Every student was put on a rotation to clean trays so I got to see first hand what the waste situation was. And it wasn't zero but you didn't see a tray full of food minus pizza coming back.
    - pqtyw 11mo ago
      > serve food that kids won't eat in the hopes that they eat less, right? Not hope as such. Ideally they eat it eventually. If they are not allowed to eat unhealthy foods they won't have much of an option. Even the most obstinate ones will change their mind after spending a couple of days being hungry. > followed this formula and it worked out great And they didn't end up being overweight?
- watwut 11mo ago
  I find this attitude super weird. Adults are responsible for what kids eat and problem of kids taking multiple lunches can be solved by allowing them to go only once. What is weird is that American kids seems to be taught to refuse "healthy" food. Somehow the problem of kids refusing fruits and real food is something that happens only once in a while with few kids elsewhere, but is apparently epidemic in america.
  - Spivak 11mo ago
    Yes we are responsible for what kids eat, it's why it's all the more maddening we have adults who come up with a menu of how they wished kids ate, made it policy, and take literally no responsibility for the (I think very predictable) outcome.
    - watwut 11mo ago
      Except it seems to me more that American adults sort of want kids not eat that and fish for anecdotes of kids not eating normal food. The issue in post is kids who just want a snack in addition to lunch. Kids that are getting lunch as lunch eat it. Frankly, free lunch dont have to come with free snack pizza for those who dont eqt lunch.
komali2 11mo ago
As an American if I paid the same taxes but the half that's spent on building -b2 bombers- fine, substitute for "devices used to kill people I'll never meet in countries I'll never see," instead went to giving kids so much food they threw half of it away, I would be ecstatic with this change in the distribution of my taxes.
- simmonmt 11mo ago
  They stopped building B2 bombers 25 years ago.
  - mylies43 11mo ago
    And now we build B21s

64756salad638 11mo ago

If you wouldn’t mind sharing, what school district was this? I’m curious to research and learn more! What accounts for the budget overrun? Are there stats on how many free meals were taken per student (especially if this was broken down on a per-day basis, this could back up the “pizza” explanation)?

Spivak 11mo ago

I mean this is the nanny state at its best. Getting in the way of progress because you refuse to meet people, in this case kids, where they actually are. The challenge should be minimizing the amount of waste—cook literally anything where the kids will clean their plates then try to nudge toward healthier options while keeping your waste % low. Let them take any subset of the lunch as they please, prune dishes kids either don't take or leave behind until you have a menu. Mind boggling how getting the kids actually fed is lower on the priority list than making sure they eat the "right" things.

pxc 11mo ago
Agreed, though the term makes for a funny metaphor in this case— a good nanny would likely take the same approach you describe here: meeting the kids where they're at and trying to encourage them to eat better along the way instead of making food just for it to be thrown away.
somerandomqaguy 11mo ago
Not exactly easy. The US military (hell just about every army on the planet) spends a lot of money and effort into developing field rations that are palatable enough for infantry sections on the move to eat in it's entirety. I can't imagine developing it for far more numerous school children is going to be any easier.
- thaumasiotes 11mo ago
  > The US military (hell just about every army on the planet) spends a lot of money and effort into developing field rations that are palatable enough for infantry sections on the move to eat in it's entirety. Why? That's not even a real concept. If you want everyone to like everything they have, you can't do that without letting them trade away the stuff they hate.
  - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
    > Why? You don’t want the dude trading away everything for desserts kapooting midway mission because his bowels are in uprising.
    - thaumasiotes 11mo ago
      So what? If you think that problem exists in the first place, you still have no choice but to address it by doing something that is possible to do.
      - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
        > address it by doing something that is possible Yes, a military study was conducted that found it unproductive to do the impossible…
        chris_wot 11mo ago
        Hey, the U.N. recently wrote a report that most U.N. Reports aren’t read. It happens.
pqtyw 11mo ago
> literally anything where the kids will clean their plates then Feeding kids sugar and hen nudging them to eat slightly less sugar while still providing inherently unhealthy meals seems suboptimal. Them cleaning their plates is not an inherently a good thing. Rather the opposite. > making sure they eat the "right" things. Certainly better than feeding them the wrong things? though. It's not like starvation or malnourishment is the main issue when a significant proportion of children are overweight. Them eating crap is...
- Spivak 11mo ago
  It's always a treat when the exact problem I'm describing shows up in the replies. Yes feed them sugar. Children have a significantly heightened sweet tooth until adolescence where it slowly declines and they develop more complex tastes and a tolerance for "adult" flavors. When I bake for kids I have to make it cloyingly sweet to an adult palate and it gets snarfed down. And it's also why Funfetti cake doesn't hit like it did as a kid because your tastes have changed. Trying to impose adult standards on kids is native at best and futile in aggregate—you can only serve it, you can't make them eat it and they won't. You understand how moronic it sounds to prepare and serve food that kids won't eat in the hopes that they eat less, right? Plus free lunch programs are to deal with malnourishment and to make sure kids get at least one full meal a day. My elementary school, which was a private school and so wasn't beholden to any government meddling, followed this formula and it worked out great. Every meal was carbs, protein, and sugar, and everything was sweet. It wasn't an apple, it was fruit cocktail in syrup, the pizza had sweetened bread and sauce, vegetables were sweat peas, carrots, and corn. Every student was put on a rotation to clean trays so I got to see first hand what the waste situation was. And it wasn't zero but you didn't see a tray full of food minus pizza coming back.
  - pqtyw 11mo ago
    > serve food that kids won't eat in the hopes that they eat less, right? Not hope as such. Ideally they eat it eventually. If they are not allowed to eat unhealthy foods they won't have much of an option. Even the most obstinate ones will change their mind after spending a couple of days being hungry. > followed this formula and it worked out great And they didn't end up being overweight?
watwut 11mo ago
I find this attitude super weird. Adults are responsible for what kids eat and problem of kids taking multiple lunches can be solved by allowing them to go only once. What is weird is that American kids seems to be taught to refuse "healthy" food. Somehow the problem of kids refusing fruits and real food is something that happens only once in a while with few kids elsewhere, but is apparently epidemic in america.
- Spivak 11mo ago
  Yes we are responsible for what kids eat, it's why it's all the more maddening we have adults who come up with a menu of how they wished kids ate, made it policy, and take literally no responsibility for the (I think very predictable) outcome.
  - watwut 11mo ago
    Except it seems to me more that American adults sort of want kids not eat that and fish for anecdotes of kids not eating normal food. The issue in post is kids who just want a snack in addition to lunch. Kids that are getting lunch as lunch eat it. Frankly, free lunch dont have to come with free snack pizza for those who dont eqt lunch.

komali2 11mo ago

As an American if I paid the same taxes but the half that's spent on building -b2 bombers- fine, substitute for "devices used to kill people I'll never meet in countries I'll never see," instead went to giving kids so much food they threw half of it away, I would be ecstatic with this change in the distribution of my taxes.

simmonmt 11mo ago
They stopped building B2 bombers 25 years ago.
- mylies43 11mo ago
  And now we build B21s