8 ms·

So you can't buy it, but you can play it, and the source is available. Is this really a problem? I know the article mentions this in passing, but preservation &

by dfxm12 1y ago

So you can't buy it, but you can play it, and the source is available. Is this really a problem? I know the article mentions this in passing, but preservation & the ability to actually play a 25 year old game is more important than its capitalization, IMO.

voxic11 1y ago
They do mention that you can pirate it. But that is kind of the point of the article, the only way to play the game is to break the law.
- dfxm12 1y ago
  Oh, no! Anyway... Seriously though, break a law that no one is interested in enforcing? What are we doing here, exactly, carrying water for a handful of companies that had nothing to do with the original development of the game in the first place? ETA: This aside from the fact that you can buy a used copy and play it...
  - nemomarx 1y ago
    I assume the community goal would be to find out who owns the rights and get them to either use them or give them up formally and bless the community project? Used copies won't be around forever, it would be better to have a proper community version.
    - dfxm12 1y ago
      What is "a proper community version"?
      - ascagnel_ 1y ago
        Something like what happened with UT99 and the original Unreal: the source was made available to a dedicated community group (who continue to push out patches for the games), and when the games were no longer commercially useful, they allowed them to be posted on the Internet Archive for free access.
      - nemomarx 1y ago
        The rights holder can give permission to use the assets and IP let the community basically own the game. Marathon and Project Aleph is a good example of this where Bungie gave it up, and so the open source version of the engine has fixes and things now.
        dfxm12 1y ago
        Nothing from the article suggests that is on the table here, but rather Nightdive wants the rights so they can sell a remake of the game without the threat of getting sued.
    - failrate 1y ago
      The background is that Night Dive tried to do this back when they formed, but it turned out to be intractable for a number of reasons including no one knew who actually owned it.
  - bigstrat2003 1y ago
    > What are we doing here, exactly, carrying water for a handful of companies that had nothing to do with the original development of the game in the first place? It may not bother you, but there are many people who would prefer it if they didn't have to break the law to play the game. Used copies won't be around forever, at which point those people will be SOL.
  - Dylan16807 1y ago
    > What are we doing here, exactly, carrying water for a handful of companies that had nothing to do with the original development of the game in the first place? What we're doing here is complaining about the bad law. And complaining about these companies, but it's bad they even have the ability to cause this deadlock.
  - autoexec 1y ago
    > Seriously though, break a law that no one is interested in enforcing? I wouldn't put it past any one of the companies who think they might maybe have some rights to the game to sic their hired copyright goons on gamers who aren't too careful about how they go about pirating the game, their ISPs, and anyone else they think they can threaten into a settlement offer for a few bucks. The copyright enforcement regime has no morals and they're happy to make it your problem to prove in court that they don't actually have the rights the material they claim was infringed. When a bunch of record labels sued Cox for a $1 billion in damages Cox eventually found that the labels never had the rights to many of the songs they were successfully sued for. They were willing to threaten Nightdive. I certainly wouldn't call them disinterested in enforcing the copyrights they may or may not have.
sharkjacobs 1y ago
Well, no, you can't play it because the source code doesn't include assets like the 3d models and textures and levels and sound files. You need to acquire those some other way if you want to build a playable version of the game. It's like GZDoom, you have to supply your own copy of DOOM.WAD
- dfxm12 1y ago
  I hope you aren't suggesting the only way to play the game is to build it yourself first. This is not the case.
  - sidewndr46 1y ago
    No he's stating that getting the executable is the easy part.
  - babypuncher 1y ago
    That isn't at all what they are saying. They are saying that you need to provide all the game assets. Exactly like you do if you want to play the original Doom with modern source ports. Since the game is not available to buy, this means either pulling those assets from an original retail copy, or pirating them.
    - dfxm12 1y ago
      Since the game is not available to buy, this means either pulling those assets from an original retail copy, or pirating them. Even if you don't want to pirate it, there are lots of copies for multiple platforms available to buy just on eBay. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
      - sharkjacobs 1y ago
        > preservation & the ability to actually play a 25 year old game is more important than its capitalization > Even if you don't want to pirate it, there are lots of copies for multiple platforms available to buy just on eBay. This feels like a contradictory position. On the one hand the important thing is the preservation and availability of a work. On the other hand it's okay if the it is only available as 20+ year old used copies and pirated copies. And any preservation or restoration project is under the shadow of 3 companies (Warner Bros., Activision, and 20th Century Fox) which have all recently "complained that they may have rights to [NOLF] and may sue over it"

by dfxm12 1y ago

voxic11 1y ago

They do mention that you can pirate it. But that is kind of the point of the article, the only way to play the game is to break the law.

dfxm12 1y ago
Oh, no! Anyway... Seriously though, break a law that no one is interested in enforcing? What are we doing here, exactly, carrying water for a handful of companies that had nothing to do with the original development of the game in the first place? ETA: This aside from the fact that you can buy a used copy and play it...
- nemomarx 1y ago
  I assume the community goal would be to find out who owns the rights and get them to either use them or give them up formally and bless the community project? Used copies won't be around forever, it would be better to have a proper community version.
  - dfxm12 1y ago
    What is "a proper community version"?
    - ascagnel_ 1y ago
      Something like what happened with UT99 and the original Unreal: the source was made available to a dedicated community group (who continue to push out patches for the games), and when the games were no longer commercially useful, they allowed them to be posted on the Internet Archive for free access.
    - nemomarx 1y ago
      The rights holder can give permission to use the assets and IP let the community basically own the game. Marathon and Project Aleph is a good example of this where Bungie gave it up, and so the open source version of the engine has fixes and things now.
      - dfxm12 1y ago
        Nothing from the article suggests that is on the table here, but rather Nightdive wants the rights so they can sell a remake of the game without the threat of getting sued.
  - failrate 1y ago
    The background is that Night Dive tried to do this back when they formed, but it turned out to be intractable for a number of reasons including no one knew who actually owned it.
- bigstrat2003 1y ago
  > What are we doing here, exactly, carrying water for a handful of companies that had nothing to do with the original development of the game in the first place? It may not bother you, but there are many people who would prefer it if they didn't have to break the law to play the game. Used copies won't be around forever, at which point those people will be SOL.
- Dylan16807 1y ago
  > What are we doing here, exactly, carrying water for a handful of companies that had nothing to do with the original development of the game in the first place? What we're doing here is complaining about the bad law. And complaining about these companies, but it's bad they even have the ability to cause this deadlock.
- autoexec 1y ago
  > Seriously though, break a law that no one is interested in enforcing? I wouldn't put it past any one of the companies who think they might maybe have some rights to the game to sic their hired copyright goons on gamers who aren't too careful about how they go about pirating the game, their ISPs, and anyone else they think they can threaten into a settlement offer for a few bucks. The copyright enforcement regime has no morals and they're happy to make it your problem to prove in court that they don't actually have the rights the material they claim was infringed. When a bunch of record labels sued Cox for a $1 billion in damages Cox eventually found that the labels never had the rights to many of the songs they were successfully sued for. They were willing to threaten Nightdive. I certainly wouldn't call them disinterested in enforcing the copyrights they may or may not have.

sharkjacobs 1y ago

Well, no, you can't play it because the source code doesn't include assets like the 3d models and textures and levels and sound files. You need to acquire those some other way if you want to build a playable version of the game. It's like GZDoom, you have to supply your own copy of DOOM.WAD

dfxm12 1y ago
I hope you aren't suggesting the only way to play the game is to build it yourself first. This is not the case.
- sidewndr46 1y ago
  No he's stating that getting the executable is the easy part.
- babypuncher 1y ago
  That isn't at all what they are saying. They are saying that you need to provide all the game assets. Exactly like you do if you want to play the original Doom with modern source ports. Since the game is not available to buy, this means either pulling those assets from an original retail copy, or pirating them.
  - dfxm12 1y ago
    Since the game is not available to buy, this means either pulling those assets from an original retail copy, or pirating them. Even if you don't want to pirate it, there are lots of copies for multiple platforms available to buy just on eBay. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    - sharkjacobs 1y ago
      > preservation & the ability to actually play a 25 year old game is more important than its capitalization > Even if you don't want to pirate it, there are lots of copies for multiple platforms available to buy just on eBay. This feels like a contradictory position. On the one hand the important thing is the preservation and availability of a work. On the other hand it's okay if the it is only available as 20+ year old used copies and pirated copies. And any preservation or restoration project is under the shadow of 3 companies (Warner Bros., Activision, and 20th Century Fox) which have all recently "complained that they may have rights to [NOLF] and may sue over it"