7 ms·

NOLF is actually source-available [0][1][2], and it has been since not that long after its original release. There's also a community-driven project [3] keepin

by skibz 11mo ago

NOLF is actually source-available [0][1][2], and it has been since not that long after its original release. There's also a community-driven project [3] keeping it playable on modern hardware - however, it hasn't seen any activity in several years. If you haven't played or heard of NOLF before, I highly encourage checking it out. It's a fantastic title, even after all these years. 0: https://web.archive.org/web/20020217233624/http://pc.ign.com/articles/095/095995p1.html https://web.archive.org/web/20020217233624/http://pc.ign.com... 1: https://web.archive.org/web/20010720053220/http://noonelivesforever.com:80/ https://web.archive.org/web/20010720053220/http://noonelives... 2: https://github.com/osgcc/no-one-lives-forever https://github.com/osgcc/no-one-lives-forever 3: https://github.com/haekb/nolf1-modernizer https://github.com/haekb/nolf1-modernizer

dfxm12 11mo ago
So you can't buy it, but you can play it, and the source is available. Is this really a problem? I know the article mentions this in passing, but preservation & the ability to actually play a 25 year old game is more important than its capitalization, IMO.
- voxic11 11mo ago
  They do mention that you can pirate it. But that is kind of the point of the article, the only way to play the game is to break the law.
  - dfxm12 11mo ago
    Oh, no! Anyway... Seriously though, break a law that no one is interested in enforcing? What are we doing here, exactly, carrying water for a handful of companies that had nothing to do with the original development of the game in the first place? ETA: This aside from the fact that you can buy a used copy and play it...
    - nemomarx 11mo ago
      I assume the community goal would be to find out who owns the rights and get them to either use them or give them up formally and bless the community project? Used copies won't be around forever, it would be better to have a proper community version.
      - dfxm12 11mo ago
        What is "a proper community version"?
        ascagnel_ 11mo ago
        Something like what happened with UT99 and the original Unreal: the source was made available to a dedicated community group (who continue to push out patches for the games), and when the games were no longer commercially useful, they allowed them to be posted on the Internet Archive for free access.
        nemomarx 11mo ago
        The rights holder can give permission to use the assets and IP let the community basically own the game. Marathon and Project Aleph is a good example of this where Bungie gave it up, and so the open source version of the engine has fixes and things now.
        dfxm12 11mo ago
        Nothing from the article suggests that is on the table here, but rather Nightdive wants the rights so they can sell a remake of the game without the threat of getting sued.
      - failrate 11mo ago
        The background is that Night Dive tried to do this back when they formed, but it turned out to be intractable for a number of reasons including no one knew who actually owned it.
    - 11mo ago
- sharkjacobs 11mo ago
  Well, no, you can't play it because the source code doesn't include assets like the 3d models and textures and levels and sound files. You need to acquire those some other way if you want to build a playable version of the game. It's like GZDoom, you have to supply your own copy of DOOM.WAD
  - dfxm12 11mo ago
    I hope you aren't suggesting the only way to play the game is to build it yourself first. This is not the case.
    - sidewndr46 11mo ago
      No he's stating that getting the executable is the easy part.
    - babypuncher 11mo ago
      That isn't at all what they are saying. They are saying that you need to provide all the game assets. Exactly like you do if you want to play the original Doom with modern source ports. Since the game is not available to buy, this means either pulling those assets from an original retail copy, or pirating them.
      - dfxm12 11mo ago
        Since the game is not available to buy, this means either pulling those assets from an original retail copy, or pirating them. Even if you don't want to pirate it, there are lots of copies for multiple platforms available to buy just on eBay. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
        sharkjacobs 11mo ago
        > preservation & the ability to actually play a 25 year old game is more important than its capitalization > Even if you don't want to pirate it, there are lots of copies for multiple platforms available to buy just on eBay. This feels like a contradictory position. On the one hand the important thing is the preservation and availability of a work. On the other hand it's okay if the it is only available as 20+ year old used copies and pirated copies. And any preservation or restoration project is under the shadow of 3 companies (Warner Bros., Activision, and 20th Century Fox) which have all recently "complained that they may have rights to [NOLF] and may sue over it"
paavohtl 11mo ago
The source is only partially available; they released the source code of the game logic, but the engine was not included in the source release. You'd need to reverse engineer & remake the engine to make any major improvements to the game, such as porting it to new platforms.
- keyringlight 11mo ago
  This sounds like how most moddable games of the era released their SDKs. You could make a mod that changed gameplay and/or assets, but you needed the needed the original game itself for the engine and original assets as a foundation/runtime. One step further would be a 'total conversion' that replaced all the assets but you still needed the engine, and then you get later releases like the id GPL releases of the engine so you could have engine+gameplay+content all by yourself. Even then you'd still need to abide by the license of the original game or the GPL engine, unless you went and signed a different license with them including if you wanted to sell anything derived from their work.
danielskogly 11mo ago
I'm in the speedrunning community[0] for NOLF and just want to chime in on the amazing work that haekb did (I believe the "community-driven project" is only them) for these games[1]. They made both NOLF and NOLF2 a lot more accessible to people casually picking up the game, as there was a lot of jank and configuration needed otherwise to get the games running in a good way on modern systems. In addition to fixing jank, they actually fixed tons of bugs and added other QoL and fun stuff like a jukebox in the menus to listen to the (great) soundtrack. Some stuff - like how if you have certain USB devices connected, the game will just flip out - still remains, but that's just a part of the _voodoo_ with old games like these. Fixing bugs and stuff is nice, but a lot of the fun speedrunning tech we depend on was also fixed, and they were kind enough to create a separate "lithfix" that only made the games playable on modern systems and left the in-game bugs intact. Not only that, but they also added a dev console and fixed some of the old cheat codes, which made it so that we could finally noclip around to inspect the maps properly and toggle on hitboxes, etc. It's incredible the impact a single individual can have. They never asked for anything back, and now their work is even included by default on the "unofficial" download page. Even though I don't speedrun anymore (maybe one day!) I'll always be grateful for that :) The game holds up incredibly well - beautiful scenery, fun story, some of the best and most humorous dialogue in any game ever[2], and a really strong and well-written female main character. Would strongly recommend anyone to pick it up, just know that some parts struggle a bit with the "stealth", and expect (and embrace) "going loud" at times. But do try to stealth a lot, as you're nicely rewarded with brilliant dialogue! NOLF2 is fun too, but very different - definitely worth a play through though! They're also very fun speedrun games, and the community is very helpful to anyone, even if you're just wanting to play it casually :) Edit: Forgot to mention that they also fixed the multiplayer in NOLF2, and some people still play sometimes! More info on this page[3] [0]: https://www.speedrun.com/nolf https://www.speedrun.com/nolf <-- you'll find a link to the game here as well [1]: https://haekb.itch.io/ https://haekb.itch.io/ <-- here you'll find all the lithtech stuff they made [2]: https://youtu.be/q2PxxbJydBU https://youtu.be/q2PxxbJydBU <-- this is just one of many examples [3]: https://spawnsite.net/ https://spawnsite.net/

by skibz 11mo ago

dfxm12 11mo ago

So you can't buy it, but you can play it, and the source is available. Is this really a problem? I know the article mentions this in passing, but preservation & the ability to actually play a 25 year old game is more important than its capitalization, IMO.

voxic11 11mo ago
They do mention that you can pirate it. But that is kind of the point of the article, the only way to play the game is to break the law.
- dfxm12 11mo ago
  Oh, no! Anyway... Seriously though, break a law that no one is interested in enforcing? What are we doing here, exactly, carrying water for a handful of companies that had nothing to do with the original development of the game in the first place? ETA: This aside from the fact that you can buy a used copy and play it...
  - nemomarx 11mo ago
    I assume the community goal would be to find out who owns the rights and get them to either use them or give them up formally and bless the community project? Used copies won't be around forever, it would be better to have a proper community version.
    - dfxm12 11mo ago
      What is "a proper community version"?
      - ascagnel_ 11mo ago
        Something like what happened with UT99 and the original Unreal: the source was made available to a dedicated community group (who continue to push out patches for the games), and when the games were no longer commercially useful, they allowed them to be posted on the Internet Archive for free access.
      - nemomarx 11mo ago
        The rights holder can give permission to use the assets and IP let the community basically own the game. Marathon and Project Aleph is a good example of this where Bungie gave it up, and so the open source version of the engine has fixes and things now.
        dfxm12 11mo ago
        Nothing from the article suggests that is on the table here, but rather Nightdive wants the rights so they can sell a remake of the game without the threat of getting sued.
    - failrate 11mo ago
      The background is that Night Dive tried to do this back when they formed, but it turned out to be intractable for a number of reasons including no one knew who actually owned it.
  - 11mo ago
sharkjacobs 11mo ago
Well, no, you can't play it because the source code doesn't include assets like the 3d models and textures and levels and sound files. You need to acquire those some other way if you want to build a playable version of the game. It's like GZDoom, you have to supply your own copy of DOOM.WAD
- dfxm12 11mo ago
  I hope you aren't suggesting the only way to play the game is to build it yourself first. This is not the case.
  - sidewndr46 11mo ago
    No he's stating that getting the executable is the easy part.
  - babypuncher 11mo ago
    That isn't at all what they are saying. They are saying that you need to provide all the game assets. Exactly like you do if you want to play the original Doom with modern source ports. Since the game is not available to buy, this means either pulling those assets from an original retail copy, or pirating them.
    - dfxm12 11mo ago
      Since the game is not available to buy, this means either pulling those assets from an original retail copy, or pirating them. Even if you don't want to pirate it, there are lots of copies for multiple platforms available to buy just on eBay. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
      - sharkjacobs 11mo ago
        > preservation & the ability to actually play a 25 year old game is more important than its capitalization > Even if you don't want to pirate it, there are lots of copies for multiple platforms available to buy just on eBay. This feels like a contradictory position. On the one hand the important thing is the preservation and availability of a work. On the other hand it's okay if the it is only available as 20+ year old used copies and pirated copies. And any preservation or restoration project is under the shadow of 3 companies (Warner Bros., Activision, and 20th Century Fox) which have all recently "complained that they may have rights to [NOLF] and may sue over it"

paavohtl 11mo ago

The source is only partially available; they released the source code of the game logic, but the engine was not included in the source release. You'd need to reverse engineer & remake the engine to make any major improvements to the game, such as porting it to new platforms.

keyringlight 11mo ago
This sounds like how most moddable games of the era released their SDKs. You could make a mod that changed gameplay and/or assets, but you needed the needed the original game itself for the engine and original assets as a foundation/runtime. One step further would be a 'total conversion' that replaced all the assets but you still needed the engine, and then you get later releases like the id GPL releases of the engine so you could have engine+gameplay+content all by yourself. Even then you'd still need to abide by the license of the original game or the GPL engine, unless you went and signed a different license with them including if you wanted to sell anything derived from their work.

danielskogly 11mo ago

I'm in the speedrunning community[0] for NOLF and just want to chime in on the amazing work that haekb did (I believe the "community-driven project" is only them) for these games[1]. They made both NOLF and NOLF2 a lot more accessible to people casually picking up the game, as there was a lot of jank and configuration needed otherwise to get the games running in a good way on modern systems. In addition to fixing jank, they actually fixed tons of bugs and added other QoL and fun stuff like a jukebox in the menus to listen to the (great) soundtrack. Some stuff - like how if you have certain USB devices connected, the game will just flip out - still remains, but that's just a part of the _voodoo_ with old games like these. Fixing bugs and stuff is nice, but a lot of the fun speedrunning tech we depend on was also fixed, and they were kind enough to create a separate "lithfix" that only made the games playable on modern systems and left the in-game bugs intact. Not only that, but they also added a dev console and fixed some of the old cheat codes, which made it so that we could finally noclip around to inspect the maps properly and toggle on hitboxes, etc. It's incredible the impact a single individual can have. They never asked for anything back, and now their work is even included by default on the "unofficial" download page. Even though I don't speedrun anymore (maybe one day!) I'll always be grateful for that :) The game holds up incredibly well - beautiful scenery, fun story, some of the best and most humorous dialogue in any game ever[2], and a really strong and well-written female main character. Would strongly recommend anyone to pick it up, just know that some parts struggle a bit with the "stealth", and expect (and embrace) "going loud" at times. But do try to stealth a lot, as you're nicely rewarded with brilliant dialogue! NOLF2 is fun too, but very different - definitely worth a play through though! They're also very fun speedrun games, and the community is very helpful to anyone, even if you're just wanting to play it casually :) Edit: Forgot to mention that they also fixed the multiplayer in NOLF2, and some people still play sometimes! More info on this page[3] [0]: https://www.speedrun.com/nolf https://www.speedrun.com/nolf <-- you'll find a link to the game here as well [1]: https://haekb.itch.io/ https://haekb.itch.io/ <-- here you'll find all the lithtech stuff they made [2]: https://youtu.be/q2PxxbJydBU https://youtu.be/q2PxxbJydBU <-- this is just one of many examples [3]: https://spawnsite.net/ https://spawnsite.net/