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I wonder if your problem is really with capitalism, or what capitalism even means. It seems some people view capitalism as basically free markets, and others v

I wonder if your problem is really with capitalism, or what capitalism even means. It seems some people view capitalism as basically free markets, and others view it as basically amoral profit maximization by any means necessary. I find this mix of meanings confusing. I tend to think both that markets are mostly good, and that we need independent education in and enforcement of moral virtue that restrains us from exploiting others for profit. Am I a "capitalist"? I suspect people will disagree. And exploitation happens in all political and economic systems, as the communists of the 20th and 21st centuries have showed us extensively, so it seems kind of misleading to associate exploitation so closely with capitalism.

saulpw 11mo ago
I agree, capitalism and "free markets" are two separate things. My less judgmental definition of capitalism, is the system where profits go to owners rather than workers. The doctor earns a salary while the hospital owner can extract any and all surplus. I think it's possible in theory that there's a form of capitalism that doesn't devolve into "amoral profit maximization", just like I think it's possible there's a form of communism that includes free markets and doesn't devolve into totalitarianism. For instance, if "capital" were passive owners that only received profits deemed surplus by capable and independent management, maybe we could still have nice things. But since capital has virtually all the power in capitalism, these owners are allowed to actively manage and exploit and enshittify to expand their own profits, at the expense of everything else.
- nradov 11mo ago
  Many US hospitals are owned by non-profit foundations or local governments. Some of the employees might be highly paid but no profits go to owners. These non-profit hospitals don't necessarily have lower prices or better care quality than for-profit competitors.
nradov 11mo ago
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism it is the reverse.

saulpw 11mo ago

I agree, capitalism and "free markets" are two separate things. My less judgmental definition of capitalism, is the system where profits go to owners rather than workers. The doctor earns a salary while the hospital owner can extract any and all surplus. I think it's possible in theory that there's a form of capitalism that doesn't devolve into "amoral profit maximization", just like I think it's possible there's a form of communism that includes free markets and doesn't devolve into totalitarianism. For instance, if "capital" were passive owners that only received profits deemed surplus by capable and independent management, maybe we could still have nice things. But since capital has virtually all the power in capitalism, these owners are allowed to actively manage and exploit and enshittify to expand their own profits, at the expense of everything else.

nradov 11mo ago
Many US hospitals are owned by non-profit foundations or local governments. Some of the employees might be highly paid but no profits go to owners. These non-profit hospitals don't necessarily have lower prices or better care quality than for-profit competitors.

nradov 11mo ago

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism it is the reverse.