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I really really don't want comms or multiplayer tools in my IDE. Don't bring the attention economy to my cave of solitude, it's where I go to escape all that n

I really really don't want comms or multiplayer tools in my IDE. Don't bring the attention economy to my cave of solitude, it's where I go to escape all that noise

pprotas 1y ago
I removed the collaboration panel from my bottom bar and don’t have to deal with it at all. Can recommend
- verdverm 1y ago
  I stay away from anything Hashimoto is making after my experiences with TF & HCL, or at least the bar is much higher / projects get a lot more scrutiny
  - hrimfaxi 1y ago
    What does Mitchell Hashimoto have to do with Zed beyond a guest blog post?
    - verdverm 1y ago
      My understanding is that he is involved in the development of Zed I find Zed's feature choices to be really poor, and then I probably made a poor association based on his talking about zed
      - smj-edison 1y ago
        I know he's working on ghostty, but I've never heard anything about him working on Zed, was that what you were thinking of?
      - RaoulP 1y ago
        Hashimoto writes Ghostty in the Zig programming language. There might be a mixup here between Zig and Zed.
        rob74 1y ago
        Yeah, they're not zigging, they're zagging, er, zedding...
  - pprotas 1y ago
    Yea you’re thinking of Ghostty, this topic is about Zed, which is not related. In fact Zed uses Alacritty for their terminal, I wish it was Ghostty!
    - satvikpendem 1y ago
      Zed is sticking to all Rust, it appears, so Ghostty wouldn't work. Also Ghostty has a lot more UI features itself like tabs etc so I don't think it's as easy to integrate in an editor which also has its own UI, so Alacritty being mainly TUI driven makes more sense.
      - jabbywocker 1y ago
        Mitchell has released libghostty which is the core terminal features for this type of embedding
  - verdverm 1y ago
    sorry and thank you, I stand corrected in several comments about my missassociation based on a blog post Hashimoto did for Zed
  - chanux 1y ago
    Care to elaborate on Terraform/HCL issues? I have worked quite heavily with Terraform and went through the trough of despair myself. But after a while I realized 1. It does quite a good job at what it does, given the complexity it's handling for us. 2. We have been expecting more and more from the tool. Mitchell himself called Terraform stuck in the past in some social media platform. However, I don't see Terraform sucking up all the interest and cash in infra, making the landscape barren so nothing else can grow. So, I hope something better will pop up. Until then, Terraform is good for what it does.
echelon 1y ago
This feels like a huge distraction from building an IDE. A monnumentous yak shave. I've never used or cared for multiplayer in VSCode or JetBrains. It's silly. I've never been the pair programmer type. The only time I've needed to share an IDE is during a SEV or ridiculously complicated systems bug, and that's 1% of the time.
- agrippanux 1y ago
  Their multiple rounds of VC funding are predicated on their vision of collaboration so they gotta make a go at it.
- gherkinnn 1y ago
  So you're saying that you're not the target audience, therefore it is silly?
  - verdverm 1y ago
    people can abstract and reason about issues like... 1. Until this is possible without lock-in to a specific IDE, it's going to be heavily gated by adoption and network effect. 2. What are you going to do about communication with non-devs who don't use any IDE? Do I now have multiple chat tools I need to give attention to? 3. Bringing the attention economy to our primary work tool is probably a bad idea in the long run, given the evidence we have more broadly about the impact of the attention economy 4. They are also proposing a new version control database, which makes adoption and interoperability an even harder task. https://zed.dev/blog/sequoia-backs-zed#introducing-deltadb-operation-level-version-control https://zed.dev/blog/sequoia-backs-zed#introducing-deltadb-o... 5. We are in an AI hype cycle, which comes with a lot of experiments and baggage. We're seeing both fandom and rational pushback against this experiment (and others)
    - gherkinnn 1y ago
      The post I responded to pointed to nothing of the sort. Like many other comments here, it was focused on how the they like to work alone, pairing sucks and this endeavour is a waste.
aeturnum 1y ago
It's not something I am excited about, but it is something I want my IDE to do well if I must engage with it. Other remote pair programming experiences are even worse and I appreciate Zed's capability in the area even if it's not what I prefer. A lot of my IDE choices are about extensibility and flexibility more than perfection for my preferred coding approach. After all, until I only work for myself I need to be ready to accommodate the needs of others as part of my job.
patcon 1y ago
This is a strong divider between types of minds. I respect your type, but know that others exist and they want these things. It's not crazy, it's just another way.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- verdverm 1y ago
  Yup, shouldn't force specific tools upon developers. Problem is that the comms products don't interop. Still beat to have just one for the entire org or likely have siloed conversations

I really really don't want comms or multiplayer tools in my IDE. Don't bring the attention economy to my cave of solitude, it's where I go to escape all that noise

pprotas 1y ago

I removed the collaboration panel from my bottom bar and don’t have to deal with it at all. Can recommend

verdverm 1y ago
I stay away from anything Hashimoto is making after my experiences with TF & HCL, or at least the bar is much higher / projects get a lot more scrutiny
- hrimfaxi 1y ago
  What does Mitchell Hashimoto have to do with Zed beyond a guest blog post?
  - verdverm 1y ago
    My understanding is that he is involved in the development of Zed I find Zed's feature choices to be really poor, and then I probably made a poor association based on his talking about zed
    - smj-edison 1y ago
      I know he's working on ghostty, but I've never heard anything about him working on Zed, was that what you were thinking of?
    - RaoulP 1y ago
      Hashimoto writes Ghostty in the Zig programming language. There might be a mixup here between Zig and Zed.
      - rob74 1y ago
        Yeah, they're not zigging, they're zagging, er, zedding...
- pprotas 1y ago
  Yea you’re thinking of Ghostty, this topic is about Zed, which is not related. In fact Zed uses Alacritty for their terminal, I wish it was Ghostty!
  - satvikpendem 1y ago
    Zed is sticking to all Rust, it appears, so Ghostty wouldn't work. Also Ghostty has a lot more UI features itself like tabs etc so I don't think it's as easy to integrate in an editor which also has its own UI, so Alacritty being mainly TUI driven makes more sense.
    - jabbywocker 1y ago
      Mitchell has released libghostty which is the core terminal features for this type of embedding
- verdverm 1y ago
  sorry and thank you, I stand corrected in several comments about my missassociation based on a blog post Hashimoto did for Zed
- chanux 1y ago
  Care to elaborate on Terraform/HCL issues? I have worked quite heavily with Terraform and went through the trough of despair myself. But after a while I realized 1. It does quite a good job at what it does, given the complexity it's handling for us. 2. We have been expecting more and more from the tool. Mitchell himself called Terraform stuck in the past in some social media platform. However, I don't see Terraform sucking up all the interest and cash in infra, making the landscape barren so nothing else can grow. So, I hope something better will pop up. Until then, Terraform is good for what it does.

echelon 1y ago

This feels like a huge distraction from building an IDE. A monnumentous yak shave. I've never used or cared for multiplayer in VSCode or JetBrains. It's silly. I've never been the pair programmer type. The only time I've needed to share an IDE is during a SEV or ridiculously complicated systems bug, and that's 1% of the time.

agrippanux 1y ago
Their multiple rounds of VC funding are predicated on their vision of collaboration so they gotta make a go at it.
gherkinnn 1y ago
So you're saying that you're not the target audience, therefore it is silly?
- verdverm 1y ago
  people can abstract and reason about issues like... 1. Until this is possible without lock-in to a specific IDE, it's going to be heavily gated by adoption and network effect. 2. What are you going to do about communication with non-devs who don't use any IDE? Do I now have multiple chat tools I need to give attention to? 3. Bringing the attention economy to our primary work tool is probably a bad idea in the long run, given the evidence we have more broadly about the impact of the attention economy 4. They are also proposing a new version control database, which makes adoption and interoperability an even harder task. https://zed.dev/blog/sequoia-backs-zed#introducing-deltadb-operation-level-version-control https://zed.dev/blog/sequoia-backs-zed#introducing-deltadb-o... 5. We are in an AI hype cycle, which comes with a lot of experiments and baggage. We're seeing both fandom and rational pushback against this experiment (and others)
  - gherkinnn 1y ago
    The post I responded to pointed to nothing of the sort. Like many other comments here, it was focused on how the they like to work alone, pairing sucks and this endeavour is a waste.

aeturnum 1y ago

It's not something I am excited about, but it is something I want my IDE to do well if I must engage with it. Other remote pair programming experiences are even worse and I appreciate Zed's capability in the area even if it's not what I prefer. A lot of my IDE choices are about extensibility and flexibility more than perfection for my preferred coding approach. After all, until I only work for myself I need to be ready to accommodate the needs of others as part of my job.

patcon 1y ago

This is a strong divider between types of minds. I respect your type, but know that others exist and they want these things. It's not crazy, it's just another way.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
verdverm 1y ago
Yup, shouldn't force specific tools upon developers. Problem is that the comms products don't interop. Still beat to have just one for the entire org or likely have siloed conversations