4 ms·

Even presuming pieces weren't falling off, every time I see one of these my first thought is how did this pass safety standards (e.g. the sharp corners/blades/e

Even presuming pieces weren't falling off, every time I see one of these my first thought is how did this pass safety standards (e.g. the sharp corners/blades/edges; pedestrian-strike setups). Now add on flying corners/blades/edges ... even less enthused. ---- I finally drove in a Rivian — and while I prefer the hybrid drivetrains — it was exceptionally nice. As an American, I can't wait for BYD to offer test drives here.

hamdingers 1y ago
> how did this pass safety standards In the US, the safety standards consider only the occupants of the car. The safety of pedestrians, cyclists, and occupants of other cars are not considered. This was looking like it would change but with the current administration I doubt it. The Cybertruck is not legal in Europe and anywhere else with actual safety standards.
- guitarbill 1y ago
  Downvote or not, it's true: > NHTSA conducts frontal, side and rollover tests because these types account for the majority of crashes on America's roadways. > IIHS tests evaluate two aspects of safety: crashworthiness — how well a vehicle protects its occupants in a crash — and crash avoidance and mitigation — technology that can prevent a crash or lessen its severity. > As well as assessing how well cars protect their occupants, Euro NCAP tests how well they protect those vulnerable road users – pedestrians and cyclists – with whom they might collide.
  - soared 1y ago
    NHTSA outlawed hood ornaments purely for pedestrian safety, so it’s not 100% correct.
    - hamdingers 1y ago
      One thing for pedestrians in 1968 and nothing since then. I'd say that's four, maybe five nines of correctness.
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    That's misleading. They don't test for pedestrian safety as part of the normal tests. But they test for it generally, not specific to any model and use those results to inform their rules about what can and can't be sold. Same story with rollover testing. This is why hood ornaments mostly died and flip up headlights fully died. The NHTSA doesn't write rules that ban specific features. You can do anything it meets the requirements. You can make brake hoses out of woven spaghetti if you want. It'll probably cost you a lot to get them to a performance point where they meet the rules though. Furthermore, the NHTSA doesn't do most testing. The testing must be done and the testing needs to meet NHTSA standards but the OEMs are free to DIY it or outsource.
    - guitarbill 1y ago
      > Same story with rollover testing. That's for occupants. > Furthermore, the NHTSA doesn't do most testing. Which is why I quoted IIHS and other non-US testing. > NHTSA standards Which standards are for e.g. pedestrian safety? The hood ornament thing? > That's misleading. They don't test for pedestrian safety as part of the normal tests. But they test for it generally No, it isn't and no they didn't/don't. E.g. GAO report from 2020 [0]: > NHTSA’s last substantial update of NCAP was in July 2008 (with changes effective for model year 2011 vehicles). This update established additional crash tests and technical standards to protect vehicle occupants, but did not include pedestrian safety tests. Or from NHTSA itself in 2022 [1], although note this is a "proposal" and "recommendations": > For the first time ever, NCAP includes technology recommendations not only for drivers and passengers but for road users outside the vehicle, like pedestrians. The proposal [...]. We look forward to reviewing the comments we receive and considering them as we complete this important work.” They will/might, by adopting Euro NCAP [2]: > This final decision notice adds a crashworthiness pedestrian protection program to the New Car Assessment Program (NCAP) to evaluate new model year vehicles’ abilities to mitigate pedestrian injuries. Based on its previous research, NHTSA concurs with and adopts most of the European New Car Assessment Programme’s (Euro NCAP) pedestrian crashworthiness assessment methods [...] > These changes to the New Car Assessment Program are effective for the 2026 model year. But as of yet, this does not appear on their NCAP ratings: https://www.nhtsa.gov/ratings/resources-related-nhtsas-new-car-assessment-program https://www.nhtsa.gov/ratings/resources-related-nhtsas-new-c... [0]: https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-20-419.pdf https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-20-419.pdf [1]: https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/five-star-safety-ratings-program-updates-proposed https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/five-star-safety-rating... [2]: https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2024-11/NCAP-Final-Decision-Notice-Crashworthiness-Pedestrian-Protection-11182024-web.pdf https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2024-11/NCAP-Fin...
- chrisco255 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - wrigby 1y ago
    What about if you’re hit at 10mph? Of course any crash at 55 is fatal for a cyclist, but most impacts with cyclists don’t occur at highway speeds.
  - LoganDark 1y ago
    The Cybertruck also bursts into flames, has body panels that fall off, and has an accelerator pedal that can spontaneously disassemble itself into getting jammed in the floored position. (I think they eventually fixed the accelerator pedal thing. Still a super bad look.) Also, if you get hit by a Cybertruck at 55mph, the sharp angles are going to cut you far deeper than a Mini Cooper would. You're not going to walk away from it either way, but you're probably more likely to perish from the Cybertruck. (That doesn't stop me from wanting a Cybertruck but that's just because it's cool in other ways. I don't know if I'd want one to be my daily driver, but it is very cool.)
  - DanHulton 1y ago
    There are more situations than just "a 55mph head-on crash" that need to be considered. What about getting clipped at 5mph when the driver is turning, and on a Cybertruck you've now got a brutal gash dug into you. And a camera that covers a full 360 isn't really all that useful when you're making a normal turn and not looking at the camera, but have your normal vision heavily obscured by the massive frame. It's not perfectly safe. If it were, it would be legal everywhere and it's not.
  - amarant 1y ago
    The reason it's not allowed in European roads is that the cold rolled steel is too hard, and the edges are too sharp. At 55mph perhaps this doesn't matter, but most vehicle-pedestrian collisions occur at far lower speeds than that, and then it absolutely does matter. I self identify as a Tesla fanboy, the model Y is the best car in the world in my opinion, but even I have to admit the cybertruck has several fatal flaws and just isn't a good vehicle. On paper it has a bunch of things going for it, for example it is (as far as I know) the cheapest fully electric vehicle with air suspension. In practice it all falls apart (both literally and figuratively) I wish Tesla would try again and build a new truck, without the cyber and the cold rolled stainless steel. Stick to the design language of the other Tesla models this time. Let Franz do his thing.
potato3732842 1y ago
Because the individual angles and feature sizes and locations aren't all that egregious when compared to everything else you find on modern pickups. Look at the current Tundra let alone a Chevy 2500. What's different is the complete lack of other styling features to soften the look. Of course it wouldn't pass safety in Europe, but neither would the other stuff mentioned.
monocasa 1y ago
Unfortunately Rivian somehow has even worse reliability than Tesla. And you can buy a BYD in America. There's just a pre-Trump 100% tariff on Chinese EVs with bipartisan support that isn't going away any time soon.
- toomuchtodo 1y ago
  I tried with much effort to import a BYD, and the federal government slowed me down every step of the way to where I gave up around regime change last November. If you have a way I can buy a BYD today, regardless of cost, in the US, I would be interested. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39992428 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39992428
  - monocasa 1y ago
    How far did you get, and what do you mean "regardless of cost"? The big issue is going to be getting the vehicle to pass FMVSS, and it looks like no one has successfully done it. Have you talked to an RI to see if they know why?
    - testing22321 1y ago
      I’m going through the RI process now for a vehicle ( not EV, not Chinese, not BYD) If a vehicle was never sold in the US and is not FMVSS compliant (with a sticker), then the RI has to prove every piece of consequence IS compliant. Airbags tested to DOT standards. Headlights. Taillights. Seatbelts. Wipers. Crash safety. Dash lights, warning lights, backup camera FOV. TPMS. The list is like 10,000 things long. Probably it does meet 99% of them , and the non-compliant things are an easy fix (we’re changing speedo in mine to mph). The trick is you have to document and prove every single item on the list, often with lab testing. It takes years, and often millions of dollars.
- fragmede 1y ago
  You can't. You don't want an old, non-electric one (presumably), so you can't use that loophole to register one. So unless you're the CEO of Ford (who has all the connections in the world), you won't be able to bring it in and register it, and depending on the state, you have to register it, even if it's not operating on public lands. I will pay $5k on top of the $8k base price and $8k for 100% tarrif, for a total of $21k for a BYD Seagull in California if you can get one delivered and registered to me. I'm sure there's collectors out there offering way more.
chrisco255 1y ago
BYDs are never coming to the American market.
- realo 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - tick_tock_tick 1y ago
    I'm not sure if the USA will allow them in Canada either. Pushing back against China is one of the few things both parties agree with right now.
  - Jeremy1026 1y ago
    Canada's auto industry is tied to the US's. As much as BYD coming to the US would hurt all of North America's auto industry. BYD coming to Canada would also hurt the auto industry. They are just too interconnected.
    - 9rx 1y ago
      > Canada's auto industry is tied to the US's. As is Mexico's, but BYD is available there — as well in a number of other North American countries. > BYD coming to Canada would also hurt the auto industry. To be fair, it is already hurting from the attacks launched by the USA. Canada has been considering partnering with China instead as a result of this. BYD is looking more and more realistic.
      - AlexandrB 1y ago
        > Canada has been considering partnering with China instead as a result of this. Also known as: "out of the frying pan and into the fire".
  - John23832 1y ago
NoGravitas 1y ago
Relevant XKCD is the most recent: #3167 "If I don't install more whirling spiked clubs, I'll be destroyed by the other drivers..."
tobrien6 1y ago
BYD is overhyped in the US for some reason. In the countries where they are available, they are considered decent budget vehicles. There's a reason why the Model Y is still the best seller in China.
- sfjailbird 1y ago
  X-Pengs are where it's at. They are taking over fast in Europe with better cars for less money.
- mikestew 1y ago
  Same country that seems to disproportionately like Buicks? Yeah, “there’s a reason”, but it might not be what you think it is.
- MangoToupe 1y ago
  > In the countries where they are available, they are considered decent budget vehicles. Yes, and I want a decent budget vehicle here.
- shagmin 1y ago
  Some would say Tesla has been over hyped as well.
  - dzhiurgis 1y ago
    They can say, but in open markets Teslas sell better than cheaper BYD’s.
    - ben_w 1y ago
      1. Are there any truly open markets for cars? 2. Tesla China has factories in China, was still #8 in Chinese market, with BYD at #1, if this source from 2024 is correct: https://carnewschina.com/2024/07/14/best-selling-vehicle-brands-ranking-in-china-first-half-of-2024/ https://carnewschina.com/2024/07/14/best-selling-vehicle-bra...
jghn 1y ago
> every time I see one of these my first thought is Even ignoring the parts falling off & the safety, every time I see one of these my first thought is "who saw a picture of this and said 'yep, that's what I want'"

hamdingers 1y ago

> how did this pass safety standards In the US, the safety standards consider only the occupants of the car. The safety of pedestrians, cyclists, and occupants of other cars are not considered. This was looking like it would change but with the current administration I doubt it. The Cybertruck is not legal in Europe and anywhere else with actual safety standards.

guitarbill 1y ago
Downvote or not, it's true: > NHTSA conducts frontal, side and rollover tests because these types account for the majority of crashes on America's roadways. > IIHS tests evaluate two aspects of safety: crashworthiness — how well a vehicle protects its occupants in a crash — and crash avoidance and mitigation — technology that can prevent a crash or lessen its severity. > As well as assessing how well cars protect their occupants, Euro NCAP tests how well they protect those vulnerable road users – pedestrians and cyclists – with whom they might collide.
- soared 1y ago
  NHTSA outlawed hood ornaments purely for pedestrian safety, so it’s not 100% correct.
  - hamdingers 1y ago
    One thing for pedestrians in 1968 and nothing since then. I'd say that's four, maybe five nines of correctness.
- potato3732842 1y ago
  That's misleading. They don't test for pedestrian safety as part of the normal tests. But they test for it generally, not specific to any model and use those results to inform their rules about what can and can't be sold. Same story with rollover testing. This is why hood ornaments mostly died and flip up headlights fully died. The NHTSA doesn't write rules that ban specific features. You can do anything it meets the requirements. You can make brake hoses out of woven spaghetti if you want. It'll probably cost you a lot to get them to a performance point where they meet the rules though. Furthermore, the NHTSA doesn't do most testing. The testing must be done and the testing needs to meet NHTSA standards but the OEMs are free to DIY it or outsource.
  - guitarbill 1y ago
    > Same story with rollover testing. That's for occupants. > Furthermore, the NHTSA doesn't do most testing. Which is why I quoted IIHS and other non-US testing. > NHTSA standards Which standards are for e.g. pedestrian safety? The hood ornament thing? > That's misleading. They don't test for pedestrian safety as part of the normal tests. But they test for it generally No, it isn't and no they didn't/don't. E.g. GAO report from 2020 [0]: > NHTSA’s last substantial update of NCAP was in July 2008 (with changes effective for model year 2011 vehicles). This update established additional crash tests and technical standards to protect vehicle occupants, but did not include pedestrian safety tests. Or from NHTSA itself in 2022 [1], although note this is a "proposal" and "recommendations": > For the first time ever, NCAP includes technology recommendations not only for drivers and passengers but for road users outside the vehicle, like pedestrians. The proposal [...]. We look forward to reviewing the comments we receive and considering them as we complete this important work.” They will/might, by adopting Euro NCAP [2]: > This final decision notice adds a crashworthiness pedestrian protection program to the New Car Assessment Program (NCAP) to evaluate new model year vehicles’ abilities to mitigate pedestrian injuries. Based on its previous research, NHTSA concurs with and adopts most of the European New Car Assessment Programme’s (Euro NCAP) pedestrian crashworthiness assessment methods [...] > These changes to the New Car Assessment Program are effective for the 2026 model year. But as of yet, this does not appear on their NCAP ratings: https://www.nhtsa.gov/ratings/resources-related-nhtsas-new-car-assessment-program https://www.nhtsa.gov/ratings/resources-related-nhtsas-new-c... [0]: https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-20-419.pdf https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-20-419.pdf [1]: https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/five-star-safety-ratings-program-updates-proposed https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/five-star-safety-rating... [2]: https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2024-11/NCAP-Final-Decision-Notice-Crashworthiness-Pedestrian-Protection-11182024-web.pdf https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2024-11/NCAP-Fin...
chrisco255 1y ago
[flagged]
- wrigby 1y ago
  What about if you’re hit at 10mph? Of course any crash at 55 is fatal for a cyclist, but most impacts with cyclists don’t occur at highway speeds.
- LoganDark 1y ago
  The Cybertruck also bursts into flames, has body panels that fall off, and has an accelerator pedal that can spontaneously disassemble itself into getting jammed in the floored position. (I think they eventually fixed the accelerator pedal thing. Still a super bad look.) Also, if you get hit by a Cybertruck at 55mph, the sharp angles are going to cut you far deeper than a Mini Cooper would. You're not going to walk away from it either way, but you're probably more likely to perish from the Cybertruck. (That doesn't stop me from wanting a Cybertruck but that's just because it's cool in other ways. I don't know if I'd want one to be my daily driver, but it is very cool.)
- DanHulton 1y ago
  There are more situations than just "a 55mph head-on crash" that need to be considered. What about getting clipped at 5mph when the driver is turning, and on a Cybertruck you've now got a brutal gash dug into you. And a camera that covers a full 360 isn't really all that useful when you're making a normal turn and not looking at the camera, but have your normal vision heavily obscured by the massive frame. It's not perfectly safe. If it were, it would be legal everywhere and it's not.
- amarant 1y ago
  The reason it's not allowed in European roads is that the cold rolled steel is too hard, and the edges are too sharp. At 55mph perhaps this doesn't matter, but most vehicle-pedestrian collisions occur at far lower speeds than that, and then it absolutely does matter. I self identify as a Tesla fanboy, the model Y is the best car in the world in my opinion, but even I have to admit the cybertruck has several fatal flaws and just isn't a good vehicle. On paper it has a bunch of things going for it, for example it is (as far as I know) the cheapest fully electric vehicle with air suspension. In practice it all falls apart (both literally and figuratively) I wish Tesla would try again and build a new truck, without the cyber and the cold rolled stainless steel. Stick to the design language of the other Tesla models this time. Let Franz do his thing.

potato3732842 1y ago

Because the individual angles and feature sizes and locations aren't all that egregious when compared to everything else you find on modern pickups. Look at the current Tundra let alone a Chevy 2500. What's different is the complete lack of other styling features to soften the look. Of course it wouldn't pass safety in Europe, but neither would the other stuff mentioned.

monocasa 1y ago

Unfortunately Rivian somehow has even worse reliability than Tesla. And you can buy a BYD in America. There's just a pre-Trump 100% tariff on Chinese EVs with bipartisan support that isn't going away any time soon.

toomuchtodo 1y ago
I tried with much effort to import a BYD, and the federal government slowed me down every step of the way to where I gave up around regime change last November. If you have a way I can buy a BYD today, regardless of cost, in the US, I would be interested. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39992428 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39992428
- monocasa 1y ago
  How far did you get, and what do you mean "regardless of cost"? The big issue is going to be getting the vehicle to pass FMVSS, and it looks like no one has successfully done it. Have you talked to an RI to see if they know why?
  - testing22321 1y ago
    I’m going through the RI process now for a vehicle ( not EV, not Chinese, not BYD) If a vehicle was never sold in the US and is not FMVSS compliant (with a sticker), then the RI has to prove every piece of consequence IS compliant. Airbags tested to DOT standards. Headlights. Taillights. Seatbelts. Wipers. Crash safety. Dash lights, warning lights, backup camera FOV. TPMS. The list is like 10,000 things long. Probably it does meet 99% of them , and the non-compliant things are an easy fix (we’re changing speedo in mine to mph). The trick is you have to document and prove every single item on the list, often with lab testing. It takes years, and often millions of dollars.
fragmede 1y ago
You can't. You don't want an old, non-electric one (presumably), so you can't use that loophole to register one. So unless you're the CEO of Ford (who has all the connections in the world), you won't be able to bring it in and register it, and depending on the state, you have to register it, even if it's not operating on public lands. I will pay $5k on top of the $8k base price and $8k for 100% tarrif, for a total of $21k for a BYD Seagull in California if you can get one delivered and registered to me. I'm sure there's collectors out there offering way more.

chrisco255 1y ago

BYDs are never coming to the American market.

realo 1y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- tick_tock_tick 1y ago
  I'm not sure if the USA will allow them in Canada either. Pushing back against China is one of the few things both parties agree with right now.
- Jeremy1026 1y ago
  Canada's auto industry is tied to the US's. As much as BYD coming to the US would hurt all of North America's auto industry. BYD coming to Canada would also hurt the auto industry. They are just too interconnected.
  - 9rx 1y ago
    > Canada's auto industry is tied to the US's. As is Mexico's, but BYD is available there — as well in a number of other North American countries. > BYD coming to Canada would also hurt the auto industry. To be fair, it is already hurting from the attacks launched by the USA. Canada has been considering partnering with China instead as a result of this. BYD is looking more and more realistic.
    - AlexandrB 1y ago
      > Canada has been considering partnering with China instead as a result of this. Also known as: "out of the frying pan and into the fire".
- John23832 1y ago

NoGravitas 1y ago

Relevant XKCD is the most recent: #3167 "If I don't install more whirling spiked clubs, I'll be destroyed by the other drivers..."

tobrien6 1y ago

BYD is overhyped in the US for some reason. In the countries where they are available, they are considered decent budget vehicles. There's a reason why the Model Y is still the best seller in China.

sfjailbird 1y ago
X-Pengs are where it's at. They are taking over fast in Europe with better cars for less money.
mikestew 1y ago
Same country that seems to disproportionately like Buicks? Yeah, “there’s a reason”, but it might not be what you think it is.
MangoToupe 1y ago
> In the countries where they are available, they are considered decent budget vehicles. Yes, and I want a decent budget vehicle here.
shagmin 1y ago
Some would say Tesla has been over hyped as well.
- dzhiurgis 1y ago
  They can say, but in open markets Teslas sell better than cheaper BYD’s.
  - ben_w 1y ago
    1. Are there any truly open markets for cars? 2. Tesla China has factories in China, was still #8 in Chinese market, with BYD at #1, if this source from 2024 is correct: https://carnewschina.com/2024/07/14/best-selling-vehicle-brands-ranking-in-china-first-half-of-2024/ https://carnewschina.com/2024/07/14/best-selling-vehicle-bra...

jghn 1y ago

> every time I see one of these my first thought is Even ignoring the parts falling off & the safety, every time I see one of these my first thought is "who saw a picture of this and said 'yep, that's what I want'"