14 ms·

This white powder will kill me one day

105 points by DanielRibeiro 14y ago

adrinavarro 14y ago
Same could be said about salt — and salt really seems to be way worse. It is everywhere (but you can avoid it if you cook your own food and take care of what you put in it). It's quite an addiction too, as one can feel food to be tasteless when not using it (because we end up using it in excess everywhere). I wonder how abundance of almost everything we want (foods, variety, condiments and abuse) will affect our (my) generation when we're old…
- jrajav 14y ago
  Large amounts of sodium are bad for you, of course, but it doesn't fill you with cheap energy and mild euphoria.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - Zenst 14y ago
    Ahhh but if you offset that with cans of diet cola you they will reduce that excess sodium. Salt+soda balanced diets work. Also don't forget a little fat, milk before a meal will also actualy reduce the amount of food you absorb. Whilst were on about eating more then reducing your vitimin D by avoiding sunlight will effect the vitimin C's ability to take on and absorb foods. But a adict can argue anything, even a salt, sugar caffine, never going out addict :-). Rule of thumb everything is bad for you, some take larger amounts than others so in that everything in moderation works best. Also worth noting that if you work in a very hot enviroment were you sweat alot then as well as water salt tablets are required, signs of low sodium are headaches, aches, and flu like sympton feeling and generaly feeling shit, too much salt may be bad for you in general in the longterm but not enough can be more detremental.
- crazygringo 14y ago
  > salt really seems to be way worse Citation? From what I understand, salt can be harmful for people who already have high blood pressure, but there isn't any real proof that salt is harmful for people with normal blood pressure. Evidence seems to be strongly accumulating that sugar/carbs are very unhealthy. For salt (in people with normal blood pressure), there isn't actually convincing evidence, from what I'm aware. And there are real risks associated with eating too little salt.
  - riffic 14y ago
    >And there are real risks associated with eating too little salt. Salt intake is a necessity for life.
Zenst 14y ago
I can see it now; Soft drink cans with sugar will start having to do pictures akin to the smoking ones. First there will be the small label warning, then the larger ones, then the full blown pictures of somebody out of a horror movie type extreme. Heck even a picture of dirty British teeth (I'm a Brit so I'm allowed that one pandering to cliché). It will happen eventually. But that is only if people start using it irresponsibly, like anything, be it water, any vitamin, in excess will not work out great for you. It is when it starts having a noticeable effect upon many that laws and acts change. That is one drive of change, but probably the first sign will be insurance forms asking how many sugars you have in your coffee and how many per week/day. But as long as I don't have to hovel outside a fire door in the poring rain to get my sugar fix then I'm not too worried about my addiction, worry causes more ill health than the excess sugar I consume and in that I raise my cup (though I did use brown sugar and I'm talking the supermarket version).
- jarin 14y ago
  Might I recommend spellcheck
  - Zenst 14y ago
    That I can do, involves copy and pasting but it has been done, I better appologise for my grammer now, though feedback well receieved and thank you for that.
    - tisme 14y ago
      Grammer? Appologise? receieved? Maybe you can set your browser to use English as the default language, then words that are spelled wrong will show up with a red underline.
fatbird 14y ago
Off the top of my head, a large part of his problem seems to be the need to overdramatize issues like this. If he's that biorythmically dependant upon sugar, then the likely problem is that he's not getting sufficient sugar elsewhere in his diet. He could reduce the sugar in his tea while adding fruit and likely achieve the same end more effectively (while upping fibre intake, for example). But phrasing this as a problem of addiction to a "poison" is a loaded approach that closes off less dramatic and likely much more effective measures. And honestly, if his weight's not a problem, then relax and enjoy your addiction--you could have it a lot worse :)
- JohnsonB 14y ago
  >adding fruit Just a sidenote: fruits are carby, so you still have the same problem if you replace wheat/sugar with fruit. They are slightly better for you because of the balance of fiber, but if you just replace wheat and sugar for fruit you are likely to end up similar health issues.
  - crazygringo 14y ago
    Even though an apple might have up to half the sugar of a 12-oz can of Coca-Cola, somehow it affects my body completely differently. From a Coke, you feel the stimulation and then the drop in energy afterwards. An apple just makes me feel good. There's no over-stimulation like sugar, and no drop in energy afterwards. It's well known that the body processes sugars in foods very differently (sodas, honey, fruits, etc.). Unfortunately, not much is known about why or how, from what I know. But something to keep in mind: humans have been eating fruits, presumably as long as we've existed. Drinks and desserts with concentrated cane sugar is a new thing. It wouldn't be surprising if evolution has adapted us well to the former (in moderation), but not that latter.
    - JohnsonB 14y ago
      Yes, it is harder to overeat or get addicted on natural fresh fruits, and there's less of a negative effect. But if you do, you're still back to square one: significant insulin spikes, a tendency to turn those calories to fat just like pure sugar, and some of the detrimental health effects mentioned in the article. You mentioned honey, and I don't know which group you assigned it to, but many people make this mistake: honey is "natural", but it is every bit as pure and unhealthy a sugar as high fructose corn syrup, or similar.
zdean 14y ago
"Extra frustrating because I know just how bad taking in these quantities of sugar is." Well, the same thing can be said about anything. Drink water in excess and it can and will kill you (the dose makes the poison). These pieces are frustrating because they take something (fats, sugars, carbs, etc.) that is perfectly healthy in moderation and within a balanced diet and position it as a vice when in fact the vice is the person's over-indulgence. A better title would have been: "Something that I consume too much of will kill me one day".
dredmorbius 14y ago
Buried lede: sugar is bad for you. While the entry notes some well-known harms of sugar, it fails to note a few thing points: - Sugar withdrawal can be modestly severe, but it's not physiologically habituating, and a couple of weeks of abstinence will get you through the worst of it. - Quantity, quality, and timing matter. Keeping total carbohydrate low (~50 - 150g day) will minimize much of the effects. Keeping sugars/carbs mostly low-glycemic minimizes the negative impacts. Consuming carbs in the morning or post-exercise (when body stores are naturally depleted) puts them where they can be utilized immediately (liver and muscle glycogen stores, not converted to fats). - Much of the sugar in the standard American / standard western diet (SAD/SWD) is in the form of hidden, added sugars in processed foods. A teaspoon of added sugar in tea is minimal. The 10 teaspoons in a 12 oz. can of Coke (or any other soft drink) are rather more. Or the sugars in various canned, prepared, baked, or other foods. Make your own food or eat raw / natural / unprepared foods and you'll greatly reduce your sugar intake. - Exercise, both strength training and cardio, change how your body processes sugar, and greatly reduces the negative effects of same. Something's going to kill you. Need not be sugar. You have agency.
- com2kid 14y ago
  > Sugar withdrawal can be modestly severe, but it's not physiologically habituating, and a couple of weeks of abstinence will get you through the worst of it. Simple carbs spike serotonin levels, and then collapse them soon afterwards. People want to feel good, so they eat more sugar, which leads to another spike. This is by definition addictive! It is also a vicious cycle. Too much sugar consumption can lead to obesity, which can then lead to depression, and of course sugar is already a person's go to treatment for feeling "down". Thus the cycle continues.
  - charlieflowers 14y ago
    When you say obesity can lead to depression, what do you mean? (I'm not asking for a citation or evidence ... rather, just clarification on your meaning). Do you mean that obese people suffer reduced self-esteem which leads to depression, or do you refer to some kind of bio-chemical linkage? (Or something else entirely?)
graeme 14y ago
I found Stickk and chains.cc aren't bad for kicking habits. I'm currently trying to quit sugar. If I don't, I give $200 to a disliked politician. It's depending on me not lying, but making that committment has already made it a lot easier. 17 days in so far, and hasn't been hard, after total failure before.
- dreeves 14y ago
  Ooh, do you know about Beeminder? Cold turkey is probably fine for sugar but if you want to gradually wean yourself, or if you want to build in some flexibility like averaging at most 2 days of the week where you eat sugar (without pre-specifying which days those would be) then Beeminder's more quantitative approach should work better. Good luck either way! Danny (of Beeminder)
digitalWestie 14y ago
Why is this on the front page?
- duey 14y ago
  I actually like these health articles appearing on HN - I understand it's not on-topic, but the majority of people here sit on computers all day so the occasional tip is useful. I guess you could argue being healthier makes you a better entrepreneur/engineer/etc?
- lazugod 14y ago
  Because jacquesm is a well-known HN user.
apaprocki 14y ago
Personal anecdote: I just started a ~30-50g carb a day diet 15 days ago. I had maybe 2 days of withdrawal from all the sugar/carbs I used to consume, but afterwards had way more energy than I ever did in recent memory. (Assuming you eat the right amount of fat/protein.) After 2 weeks I've also lost 10 lbs (4.53 kg). I recommend everyone give it a try to see how it changes your daily routine and general sense of health.
- crazygringo 14y ago
  I've done that a number of times, and I always feel like I have more energy, lose weight, etc. It's fantastic. But the problem is, carbs are so damned tasty. I always wind up starting to eat a few french fries, a piece of croissant in the morning, a bit of crusty baguette, a bit of cherry pie, a homemade chocolate-chip cookie, a buttered toasted English muffin, a waffle, kettle potato chips, a hamburger with bun, a slide of brick oven thin-crust pizza... ...and pretty soon you're back to where you were before. I eat a lot less carbs now than I used to, and make sure they always have high fat content so I eat less (lots of olive oil on bread/pizza, cookies with lots of butter, etc.), and also try to make sure they're tasty enough to be worth it. But it's really hard to say no to so many of the delicious things out there!
  - fingerprinter 14y ago
    Dude....carb-cycling! Seriously, this is the way to go. This one variant of the carb-cycling I used to cut down for various reason (mentioned earlier in the post). What I do: 6.5 days of VLC (Very Low Carb) of just protein+fat+green veggies (my typical meal is eggs, bacon and broccoli), less than 30g. On the 7th day, I go carb nuts at night, 2-3 hrs before bed. I don't limit carbs in this to low-GI, either, I eat what I want. I just make sure to get quality protein and keep it low fat as well. As an added bonus, on the 7th day, just before I go carb nuts, I hit the gym and really, really blast whatever body part I want to see grow. The carbs I consume later are going to spike my insulin so if I make sure my body is primed to actually use the insulin spike, I can actually grow a bit of muscle. BONUS!
- olliesaunders 14y ago
santry 14y ago
One day about 3 years ago I quit sugar "cold turkey." At the time I was rather highly motivated by seeing a friend nearly killed by necrotizing fasciitis. (Not that his illness was sugar related. It's just that seeing a close friend nearly die puts things in perspective.) My taste changed within just a couple of weeks. By the third or fourth week if I accidentally drank sweetened iced tea instead of unsweetened I would nearly spit it out due to the awful taste. I also cut out all artificial sweeteners, effectively eliminating any experience of sweetness from my diet. I think previously I had drunk so much Diet Coke and eaten so many sugary things that I had conditioned myself to need that sweet taste on a regular schedule. I think one thing that helped was that I started making tea using high-quality, whole-leaf teas from adagio.com. They have such interesting flavors, I find they don't need sugar. I'm not sure I can speak to the work-related effects of not eating sugar since I was spending most of the time in the hospital with my friend. I can say that my overall mood became much more stable; there were no more mid-afternoon crashes and I genearlly found I had more energy. Being about 360 pounds at the time, this one dietary change was enough for me to lose 60 pounds over the next 12 months while still leading a mostly sedentary lifestyle.
- stcredzero 14y ago
  I have just quit sugar cold turkey. Carbohydrates in general, actually. (< 20 grams per day.) One thing that I will highly recommend to everyone who is trying to do this: small amounts of powdered Psyllium supplement. The best known brand in the US is Metamucil. This might set off some mental alarms, as it is marketed as a "laxative." However, it's just a concentrated source of soluble fiber that acts to bulk up material passing through the gut, helping to keep it passing through. This prevents many of the disadvantages of eating mostly foods that are rich in proteins and fats. The instructions on this stuff allow for 1 to 3 doses per day. I'm only taking 1/2 a dose at any one time, so it's acting more as a fiber supplement. That said, I also cook and eat lots of vegetables. (Green beans are quick and great! Just rinse them, steam them, and don't eat any inedible looking ends. It's best if you don't overcook them.) I never feel run down after meals any more like I used to, though I can still feel a bit tired after a particularly high fat meal. On the whole, I have a lot more energy, though I have been told that I'm a lot more irritable now. Maybe it's time to do some programming "in anger?"
gburt 14y ago
It sure sounds like he's addicted to caffeine, and just happens to put sugar in his tea.
- philf 14y ago
  First I thought that, too, but he mentions explicitly that tea alone doesn't work for him. So I tend to agree with what someone else on this thread said, that he might need to simply up his intake of nutrients in his diet. Especially protein and fat which produce more stable energy levels.
  - Ixiaus 14y ago
    This. Far too many people believe fat is bad and don't understand that simple carbs and fat are the most easily converted to energy for the brain.
  - eavc 14y ago
    Unless he's drinking decaf, several liters of iced tea intake a day would almost certainly indicate addiction and dependency. Replace 'tea' in this article with cocaine. The cocaine alone doesn't do it for him, he requires there to be some sugar in it. And then blaming the sugar withdrawal for his fuzzy head. That's basically what's happening here. Except that people tend to ignore that caffeine is a drug that can have some pretty pronounced effects when used a lot and over a long time.
    - nisa 14y ago
      > that caffeine is a drug that can have some pretty pronounced effects when used a lot and over a long time. As an avid coffee-drinker - what are these effects? I've read upon caffeine and I've found no clear evidence for permanent harm or good out of coffee.
      - eavc 14y ago
        Dependency is the big one relevant to the OP. Withdrawal can impact energy, mood, cognitive function, and cause bad headaches, among other things, I'm sure. Caffeine use can also compromise sleep, raise blood pressure, and increase anxiety. Caffeine intoxication is an acute state and has a range of effects as well, but that's not really what you're asking about. The wikipedia article actually has a good summary of some of these issues as well as others. You'll notice that the higher dosages given in that article as being risk factors for things are within the range of 'several liters of iced tea.'
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
Tichy 14y ago
Try drinking tea without sugar? Better to wean off the caffeine, though.
Kishin 14y ago
I too was pretty much addicted to sugar. Mostly dessert-like foods and soda. There are a few things that will help reduce the sugar cravings: - Eat a little more protein. No need to go crazy, but just have more protein. - Eat more fiber. Very few people eat enough fiber. Eat more fruits and vegetables. Fruits are a great way to get some sugar, but the fructose in fruit is absorbed more slowly than a cookie. - Have some cinnamon. I sprinkle a little cinnamon on everything. Occasionally I'll even take a cinnamon tablet. Supposedly helps with cravings. - Drink more water. When I pretty much stopped having sugar I was having 3-4 liters (roughly a gallon) of water a day. - Eat good fats. Nuts, peanut butter, almond butter, avocados, etc. Helps with cravings too. - And of course exercise. There are too many good things exercise does for you. I have pretty much stopped having sugar (other than in social situations i.e. given a piece of birthday cake). I drink my coffee black, no sugar in my tea, and don't drink any more soda.
eavc 14y ago
"I drink tea, lots of it, several liters per day...If I don’t drink my tea my head feels like mush." Sugar may be a red herring here. That sounds like a massive caffeine dependency.
- crazygringo 14y ago
  Yeah... several liters a day?? That's absolutely insane. That is not healthy at all.
  - wisty 14y ago
    AFAIK, there's only been one recorded death from lethal tea poisoning. I think it was something like 14 liters a day. 200 cups a day can be lethal, but the water poisoning will probably get you first. The real dangers are alcohol + caffeine (the caffeine stops you getting tired, so you can drink more), or caffeine powder (one spoon can kill you). Several liters probably isn't healthy though.
    - eavc 14y ago
      The headline is pure hyperbole. He thinks he has a problem because he gets a fuzzy head when he doesn't drink his tea. That's caffeine withdrawal.
      - jacquesm 14y ago
        I ruled out caffeine addiction already, it's the sugar.
        eavc 14y ago
        I would really encourage you to revisit that assumption. I'm sorry to challenge you on this, but unless the tea you drink has very low levels of caffeine, you are ingesting quite a bit of the drug each day, levels that would cause dependency and addiction. The fuzzy head thing is a typical description of caffeine withdrawal. Why do you think otherwise?
mistercow 14y ago
You can buy pure sucralose (the stuff in splenda) online for $10/ounce. It's around 600 times as sweet as sugar, so that's equivalent to paying about 25¢/lb of sugar. The upsides are that there are no documented negative health effects, it tastes pretty much like sugar, and it has no calories. The downsides are that it doesn't work like sugar chemically (you can't caramelize it or use it to activate yeast), and that you have to dilute it (I like to just make a very sweet sucralose+water solution to sweeten things with, but you could easily cut it with some other powder like maltodextrin).
- olliesaunders 14y ago
  And what happens after you eat this stuff for 50 years or so?
  - klausjensen 14y ago
    You might be dead. Then again, I expect to be dead in 50 years regardless...
    - olliesaunders 14y ago
      What about your children?
      - mistercow 14y ago
        That's pointless speculation, and you can play that game all day until you're arguing that nothing is safe. How can we really be sure, after all, that trace compounds from sea salt aren't causing slight DNA damage that will turn our descendants 150 generations down the line into eight-legged mutants? The fact is that there is no more reason to believe that sucralose will have some as yet unobserved negative health effect than there is to believe that it will have some as yet unobserved health benefit.
  - mistercow 14y ago
    It has been extensively studied (it's been around for 36 years), and there's no reason to believe anything will happen to you whatsoever. Keep in mind that you only eat one six hundredth as much as you would sugar. Conversely, imagine if sugar were a newly discovered sweetening compound, seeking FDA approval. They wouldn't get past one safety trial before "serious concerns about long term effects" knocked it out of the running. Analyzing the relative risks of sugar and sucralose, there is just no case to be made for sugar being the safer bet.
JohnsonB 14y ago
Quitting sugar is hard without a diet replacing it that satiates your appetite on a daily basis. I highly recommend Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It. Basically, an Atkins diet. That means eat as much as you want, but low carbs, high protein, high fat (including sat. fats, but no tranfats, etc.), high vegetable diet (and few fruits too, fruits are sugar.)
- redcap 14y ago
  But fruit has fibre, which counteracts the sugar in them, so eating fruit is ok. But fruit juice is a different matter as the pulp has been removed.
  - crazygringo 14y ago
    Yeah, I'm kind of amazed by people who won't drink a Coke because it's unhealthy, but have no problem downing a 20 oz orange juice. The sugar in it may be natural, but it's still a mind-blowing amount of it.
    - ig1 14y ago
      If you're in the US Coke has corn syrup rather than sugar.
Ixiaus 14y ago
It also sounds like you're addicted to caffeine. You're probably addicted to Gluten as well. The paleo/primal food lifestyle would probably interest you greatly. (notably, sugar is my most major vice - I kicked gluten, caffeine, alcohol, and many other substances a long time ago. I still consume wheat here and there, but sugar (particularly in juice) is the worst.
ryanwaggoner 14y ago
You're not alone: sugar is the only thing I'm really addicted to, other than maybe the Internet. The only thing that has worked for me is going completely cold turkey for my two big sugar vices: candy and soda. I haven't had candy in about a year, and I haven't touched soda in three or four years. It gets easier...I don't really crave either of those things ever anymore. I still eat things that have sugar, but I don't really go overboard with anything other than candy and soda, so it's not a problem. Quit cold turkey; some of us can't handle moderation for some things.
wldlyinaccurate 14y ago
Try keeping a glass of water by you and drink that whenever you feel like having a cup of tea. If you can swap even half of your tea intake for water you'll start to feel much better within a few days since the caffeine and sugar is actually dehydrating you. I can't help but wonder if you had acquired a taste for beer as a teenager whether you would have less of a sweet tooth now...
ams6110 14y ago
Try replacing the sugar in your tea with fat, i.e. cream. Will help you feel more satiated.
- duck 14y ago
  Or a lemon... that is what worked for me. Now I can no longer drink sweetened tea.
cmccabe 14y ago
When I go to a restaurant, usually the only non-alcoholic things I can bear to drink are unsweetened tea and water. I really don't know how people can bear to drink the rest of the stuff. Putting sugar in drinks is nasty. Drinks with artificial sweeteners taste even worse. On the other hand, I hear the Chinese put salt in tea sometimes. That would be even worse. So how can I complain.
msutherl 14y ago
The reason that peer pressure to do drugs is so intense is that for those doing the pressuring, you look like a crazy person. They look at the vast majority of people in their environment who do drugs on a regular basis, often throughout their entire lives, and appear to be fine and happier for it. Then they look at you and, since you are in the minority, immediately conclude that you are overreacting. I grew up with a few friends who abstained from drugs completely. As they grew older and gained perspective, they slowly let down their guard and most of them fell into familiar patterns of reasonably healthy, occasional drug use. A few others had drug problems. The fact is that a minority of people have the right mix of personality, circumstances and chemistry to become addicts. To make the decision to abstain from any kind of drug use, you are eliminating the small chance that you could become an addict, which is commendable. But what you don't know is that eliminating that chance comes at a great cost. What your peers were trying to tell you was "dude, trust us, it's worth the risk!" A good friend might have said, "friend, if you never take risks, you'll never experience the full richness of life!" If I were your friend, I would say, quite honestly, that I cannot, almost as a rule, trust anybody who has not tried a variety of mind altering substances. The insight that they provide is, in my opinion, essential to developing an open mind and a deeper perspective on life. Moreover I would be wary of anybody so, to me, risk averse. But your argument would still be that I don't properly understand the risks. Perhaps that is true, but here is my point: I respect your decision to eliminate the risk of your becoming an addict, but I don't think that it is appropriate for you to be indignant. Rather, you should be sorrowful.
- 3pt14159 14y ago
  Every single person I know that does drugs performs at or less than their potential. I've never done anything except for caffeine and alcohol, but this perspective you write about is overrated when it comes at the cost of performance, work ethic, and the possible risk of life altering addiction. It should, of course, be legal to do so.
  - jules 14y ago
    Part of the reason why people want others to use the same drug is to feel less guilty about their using. That goes for people pressuring others to drink alcohol at parties, in high school to try cigarettes, in college to try marijuana, and other substances. The fact that there is a person in a group who is consciously not using the drug brings the idea to mind that using that particular drug might not be the best long term investment. Note that this does not apply to friendly advice given once (which I have no problem with), but it certainly applies to repeated social pressure or emotional blackmail. Even the grandparent borders on that territory: if you don't use drugs you can't be trusted, you have neither an open mind nor a deep perspective, and you're a wimp. If anybody who is encouraging others to use a drug wants to see the other side of the coin, try ordering a tea or water instead of a beer at a bar, and see how people react. Repeatedly I have been asked what I wanted to drink, answered tea or water, and a couple of minutes later a beer arrives. Don't be so boring, it's here now, drink it! Note that sometimes I do drink alcoholic beverages, so it's not even that they want me to experience something new. I never replace other people's drinks by tea, heck I've gladly helped people buy marijuana (legally). P.S. my kid brother is addicted to cigarettes and it's certainly not because one day somebody suggested it to him as friendly advice and he thought "Wow, you're right, smoking cigarettes would be so beneficial for me".
001sky 14y ago
Milk & Honey for your tea, folks =]
lubos 14y ago
I'm reading this article while drinking bottle of Red Bull and eating chocolate. Through the first paragraph I'm telling to myself "he is going to talk about sugar, he is going to talk about sugar". Then it comes. He says "Sugar" and I scream "Fuck!!!"
- fingerprinter 14y ago
  You didn't get that from the title? You must be new here ;)
delinquentme 14y ago
Sensationalist headlines! YAY! And seriously if your head feels disconnected without tea... you could probably use some exercise.
hcarvalhoalves 14y ago
Use honey or brown sugar. Quit drinking sodas and other crap you don't know how much sugar was poured into. Problem solved. Quitting carbohydrates altogether is a stupid idea. Don't do it.
- eurleif 14y ago
  Brown sugar is no better for you than white sugar. http://www.seattlepi.com/lifestyle/health/article/Reality-Check-Is-brown-sugar-healthier-than-1240510.php http://www.seattlepi.com/lifestyle/health/article/Reality-Ch... Xylitol is my preferred sugar substitute. It's lower in calories, and it has a much lower glycemic index. It also helps prevent cavities.
  - hcarvalhoalves 14y ago
    Well, in Brazil you can buy real brown sugar (raw sugar). I don't known the crap they sell elsewhere under this name. You can even buy it in blocks here (google "rapadura"). The problem isn't in the calories, which is equivalent per gram with refined sugar, but the fact refined lacks many nutrients. The article you mention is full of crap and doesn't link to any studies, but I can tell you raw sugar has ~5mg per 100g of Iron alone. Refined sugar has absolutely zero. In a 2000kcal diety, you're consuming 50g of sugar daily. You're getting along 1/4 of daily Iron intake if raw sugar is used, for free. I'm not even going to mention Magnesium, which 70% of the world's population is deficient on. I wouldn't say the benefits are negligible. About Xylitol... what's the point in using an artificial sweetener that lacks any nutrients just because is has lower calories? Just cut caloric crap from the diet. The only benefit is for diabetics.
alan_cx 14y ago
Dunno about any one else, but I suddenly went right off sugar, suddenly it tasted foul. I have no idea why at all. I used to have 2 teaspoons in coffee, like normal coke, sprinkle it over cereal and fruit, and so on. One day I made my usual coffee and it was just sickly. I chucked it down the sink and made a new one with out sugar and its was fantastic. Same for everything else. Weird, but there it is.
sbochins 14y ago
Abstaining from sugar, tobacco, alcohol, or marijuana seems kind of silly to me. I know that the culture on HN is to try to empower people to be supermen and do extraordinary things. But, when I think of the dedication required to abstain from all these things given the environment I live in, I feel anxiety. I think anxiety and stress is something that is much more harmful to me than smoking a blunt or drinking a glass of whiskey. I never understood why some people take such a black and white (simple) perspective on this. I guess the only reason I could see is if someone very close to them died from one of these vices, but that is kind of an irrational reaction. I understand it, but wouldn't advocate anyone reacting that way. In short, I don't really see how soft drugs or unhealthy foods in moderate quantity are really harmful in the grand scheme of things.
nacker 14y ago
"I vowed to simply abstain from any drug at all. No Beer, Wine, Spirits, smokes, hash, coke or other dope for me. I wanted to be healthy and to live as long as possible while keeping my body in as good a shape as I could." Well Jacques, it is quite strange and disappointing to see that you have spent your life following such a simplistic approach to human brain chemistry. You seem to have accepted uncritically the message promulgated by your local government about the effects of psychoactive chemicals, that is, that alcohol, "smokes", hash, coke, or "other dope" is bad for your health, and will reduce your lifespan. In the first place, does it seem rational to you to group the effects of such a wide range of different chemicals together? Tobacco and alcohol, for example, have nothing in common chemically or pharmacologicaly. Their effects on your health or longevity are completely independent of each other. What they have in common is that they have a psychologically pleasant effect, like the other varieties of "dope" you mention. Perhaps you have bought into the Calvinistic worldview that what is pleasurable must be ultimately harmful. Do you not indulge in such temptingly wicked practices as dancing and umm, recreational sex either? How about an item by item rational, scientific approach to each chemical? I'm not going to attempt to be exhaustive here, as anyone can look up a hundred resources, but, as a first approach, I think that your strategy of "complete abstention" is misguided at best. Of course anything can be overdone to the point of being harmful, even internet usage, so all of my comments below apply only to moderate, reasonable, sensible use. Alcohol: Legal, moderate addictive potential, overuse increases violence and recklessness. Numerous studies have shown than moderate usage is beneficial to health. Overuse causes liver problems and Korsakoff's Syndrome. Social lubricant enjoyed around the world. Tobacco: Legal, highly addictive, carcinogenic. Mental stimulant. Cannabis: Illegal. Barely to zero addictive potential, cancer preventative/therapy. No known overdose. Stimulates creative ideas. Dissolves obedience to authoritarian world-views. Coke: Illegal. Highly addictive. Mental stimulant. Causes holes in internasal septum and generally manic asshole behavior. Psychedelics: Illegal. Highly NON-addictive. A large proportion of users say they have caused the most significant experiences of their entire lives. No known physical effects. Personally, although I agree with you about sugar, I'm really more concerned that you have accepted a bland, timid, dumbed-down, boring, government-dictated life, than that you are taking any serious health risks. I think you should take a few risks and get out a little, before you die. How about a fat spliff, a hearty Merlot, and an Ayahuasca trip to the Amazon? You never know, you might find that you've been living your life so far in black and white.
deleted 14y ago
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ChristianMarks 14y ago
I have never taken narcotics. I have no interest in alcohol or tobacco. These days, the thought of sex is revolting. Peer pressure means little to me: I avoid people as much as possible, which helps. If I didn't, I might have to listen to self-serving, fatuous nonsense about how I ought to have an open mind about taking drugs or drinking, or at least take the trouble to examine every controlled substance on a case-by-case basis, despite a lack of interest and time. My justification for not doing so: I am rational, according to a cost-benefit analysis I haven't done. (Which is to say, I don't need a reason.) That said, I've tried to reduce my sugar intake--no sugar in coffee, etc, but this has been difficult.
- nacker 14y ago
  Why do you think it is "self-serving" to suggest that you ought to have an open mind? If you don't want to take the trouble to investigate subjects which are of no interest to you, and for which you are just too darn busy, that is just fine, you don't need a reason. You might choose to live your life in a cardboard box, after all, as long as you're happy there. Plenty of people will think you are missing out on life, though. But since you avoid people, you wouldn't care, I guess. Have a good one...
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - ChristianMarks 14y ago
    Why do you think I wrote that it is self-serving to suggest that I ought to have an open mind per se, when I wrote that it was self-serving to suggest that I ought to have an open mind about taking drugs or drinking? When you figure out what led you to distort my meaning, you should have the answer to your question.
jacquesm 14y ago
I'm kind of surprised to see this one on HN, it definitely wasn't the intention, there is no link to hacking here as far as I can see. That said, now that it is there it is a great source of feedback, for all those that have made constructive suggestions in this thread and in the comments on the blog post, thank you very much, and I will certainly take some of those suggestions to heart and implement them.
- meric 14y ago
  You can try chinese tea. It tastes horrible with sugar.
- gbog 14y ago
  I skimmed the comments and did not see this obvious suggestion: you are not really drinking tea, you are drinking tea-coke. Just start drinking the real stuff, a few leaves of green Chinese tea in hot water. I usually go for longjing tea. It is a tad sour with chocolate fragrance. No one would ever add sugar in this dope.
shanev 14y ago
Some people much smarter than myself, like Dr. Robert Lustig at UCSF, believe that sugar is the main cause for "diseases of affluence" like diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. I've been on the Paleo diet, which eschews refined sugar, for over four years. I've lost a lot of weight and feel better than I have felt in many years. I know this is just an n=1 study and doesn't vilify sugar in isolation, but I believe it played a huge role in making me healthier. Sugar is just as bad as those other drugs and maybe more so. Eating it is like shooting yourself, but with a very slow moving bullet. It'll catch up to you at some point.
endtime 14y ago
Try stevia, which (as far as we know) is a totally non-toxic sweetener. It doesn't work for everything, but I think it'd be just fine for tea.
rcthompson 14y ago
Something to consider regarding artificial sweeteners: your digestive tract has the same sweet-taste receptors as the taste buds on your tongue. It uses these to decide when to activate sugar metabolizing/storage pathways. Since artificial sweeteners activate the receptors on your tongue, it is reasonable to assume that they also activate the ones in your digestive tract, thus misleading your body about how much sugar it has consumed and causing it to respond inappropriately, probably causing something like a sugar crash as your body releases insulin to combat an influx of sugar that never arrives.
- pault 14y ago
  I can only speak for myself, but this is exactly what happens when I consume artificial sweeteners. I get tired, cranky, and hungry about 30 minutes afterwards. I switched from the 'milkshake' style protein drinks after workouts to pure whey isolate and my late night food cravings stopped completely. Too bad the whey isolate tastes, well, awful isn't strong enough of a word.
idonthack 14y ago
his apparent tea addiction is hilarious in context with all of this
rcthompson 14y ago
I can't tell if this article is completely serious or partially tongue-in-cheek. The bit that really stuck out at me: "If I don’t use sugar ... then I simply get ... very low on energy. ... I’m not sure what the link is here, all I know is that without that chemical in my bloodstream for some reason I can’t get my head in first gear, let alone second or third." I found it hard to take that seriously, given that your body will put sugar in your bloodstream regardless of what you eat, and without any sugar in your bloodstream you would quickly die. Of course, the overall point of the article still stands.
EGreg 14y ago
Your brain consumes a lot of energy, and it feeds off the sugar. I am not sure what studies have been done about intense concentration and conscious brain activity involved in coding and so forth, but I can see why your brain has developed a habit of relying on sugar. Sugar is actually more addictive than many other drugs. Rats often preferred it to cocaine and got addicted to it just like a drug. http://sarvahealthandwellness.com/?p=402 http://sarvahealthandwellness.com/?p=402 http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2008/12/12/22428/ http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2008/12/12/22428/ You might try varying the sugar to brown sugar or honey. Or eat fruits such as grapes which are a source of glucose! Also, apples have been known to wake you up in the morning better than coffee.
dllthomas 14y ago
Rather than dropping the sugar from your tea, try finding some good coffee and drinking it black. That way, you're not getting almost the same experience but without the sugar. You're getting a radically different experience with most of the same chemicals. Not that this is guaranteed to work, by a long shot, but it seems worth a try. Edited to add: The above assumes it's mostly psychosomatic, which seems quite possible and worth testing but isn't anything like guaranteed. If there is a nutritional component then eating more, smaller meals may help. I assume you're eating breakfast in the first place?
nodrama 14y ago
that seems a lot of tea too. The only really good liquid is pure water. I'm lucky enough that we drink water straigth from a spring.

105 points by DanielRibeiro 14y ago

Same could be said about salt — and salt really seems to be way worse. It is everywhere (but you can avoid it if you cook your own food and take care of what you put in it). It's quite an addiction too, as one can feel food to be tasteless when not using it (because we end up using it in excess everywhere). I wonder how abundance of almost everything we want (foods, variety, condiments and abuse) will affect our (my) generation when we're old…

jrajav 14y ago
Large amounts of sodium are bad for you, of course, but it doesn't fill you with cheap energy and mild euphoria.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- Zenst 14y ago
  Ahhh but if you offset that with cans of diet cola you they will reduce that excess sodium. Salt+soda balanced diets work. Also don't forget a little fat, milk before a meal will also actualy reduce the amount of food you absorb. Whilst were on about eating more then reducing your vitimin D by avoiding sunlight will effect the vitimin C's ability to take on and absorb foods. But a adict can argue anything, even a salt, sugar caffine, never going out addict :-). Rule of thumb everything is bad for you, some take larger amounts than others so in that everything in moderation works best. Also worth noting that if you work in a very hot enviroment were you sweat alot then as well as water salt tablets are required, signs of low sodium are headaches, aches, and flu like sympton feeling and generaly feeling shit, too much salt may be bad for you in general in the longterm but not enough can be more detremental.
crazygringo 14y ago
> salt really seems to be way worse Citation? From what I understand, salt can be harmful for people who already have high blood pressure, but there isn't any real proof that salt is harmful for people with normal blood pressure. Evidence seems to be strongly accumulating that sugar/carbs are very unhealthy. For salt (in people with normal blood pressure), there isn't actually convincing evidence, from what I'm aware. And there are real risks associated with eating too little salt.
- riffic 14y ago
  >And there are real risks associated with eating too little salt. Salt intake is a necessity for life.

Zenst 14y ago

I can see it now; Soft drink cans with sugar will start having to do pictures akin to the smoking ones. First there will be the small label warning, then the larger ones, then the full blown pictures of somebody out of a horror movie type extreme. Heck even a picture of dirty British teeth (I'm a Brit so I'm allowed that one pandering to cliché). It will happen eventually. But that is only if people start using it irresponsibly, like anything, be it water, any vitamin, in excess will not work out great for you. It is when it starts having a noticeable effect upon many that laws and acts change. That is one drive of change, but probably the first sign will be insurance forms asking how many sugars you have in your coffee and how many per week/day. But as long as I don't have to hovel outside a fire door in the poring rain to get my sugar fix then I'm not too worried about my addiction, worry causes more ill health than the excess sugar I consume and in that I raise my cup (though I did use brown sugar and I'm talking the supermarket version).

jarin 14y ago
Might I recommend spellcheck
- Zenst 14y ago
  That I can do, involves copy and pasting but it has been done, I better appologise for my grammer now, though feedback well receieved and thank you for that.
  - tisme 14y ago
    Grammer? Appologise? receieved? Maybe you can set your browser to use English as the default language, then words that are spelled wrong will show up with a red underline.

fatbird 14y ago

Off the top of my head, a large part of his problem seems to be the need to overdramatize issues like this. If he's that biorythmically dependant upon sugar, then the likely problem is that he's not getting sufficient sugar elsewhere in his diet. He could reduce the sugar in his tea while adding fruit and likely achieve the same end more effectively (while upping fibre intake, for example). But phrasing this as a problem of addiction to a "poison" is a loaded approach that closes off less dramatic and likely much more effective measures. And honestly, if his weight's not a problem, then relax and enjoy your addiction--you could have it a lot worse :)

JohnsonB 14y ago
>adding fruit Just a sidenote: fruits are carby, so you still have the same problem if you replace wheat/sugar with fruit. They are slightly better for you because of the balance of fiber, but if you just replace wheat and sugar for fruit you are likely to end up similar health issues.
- crazygringo 14y ago
  Even though an apple might have up to half the sugar of a 12-oz can of Coca-Cola, somehow it affects my body completely differently. From a Coke, you feel the stimulation and then the drop in energy afterwards. An apple just makes me feel good. There's no over-stimulation like sugar, and no drop in energy afterwards. It's well known that the body processes sugars in foods very differently (sodas, honey, fruits, etc.). Unfortunately, not much is known about why or how, from what I know. But something to keep in mind: humans have been eating fruits, presumably as long as we've existed. Drinks and desserts with concentrated cane sugar is a new thing. It wouldn't be surprising if evolution has adapted us well to the former (in moderation), but not that latter.
  - JohnsonB 14y ago
    Yes, it is harder to overeat or get addicted on natural fresh fruits, and there's less of a negative effect. But if you do, you're still back to square one: significant insulin spikes, a tendency to turn those calories to fat just like pure sugar, and some of the detrimental health effects mentioned in the article. You mentioned honey, and I don't know which group you assigned it to, but many people make this mistake: honey is "natural", but it is every bit as pure and unhealthy a sugar as high fructose corn syrup, or similar.

zdean 14y ago

"Extra frustrating because I know just how bad taking in these quantities of sugar is." Well, the same thing can be said about anything. Drink water in excess and it can and will kill you (the dose makes the poison). These pieces are frustrating because they take something (fats, sugars, carbs, etc.) that is perfectly healthy in moderation and within a balanced diet and position it as a vice when in fact the vice is the person's over-indulgence. A better title would have been: "Something that I consume too much of will kill me one day".

dredmorbius 14y ago

Buried lede: sugar is bad for you. While the entry notes some well-known harms of sugar, it fails to note a few thing points: - Sugar withdrawal can be modestly severe, but it's not physiologically habituating, and a couple of weeks of abstinence will get you through the worst of it. - Quantity, quality, and timing matter. Keeping total carbohydrate low (~50 - 150g day) will minimize much of the effects. Keeping sugars/carbs mostly low-glycemic minimizes the negative impacts. Consuming carbs in the morning or post-exercise (when body stores are naturally depleted) puts them where they can be utilized immediately (liver and muscle glycogen stores, not converted to fats). - Much of the sugar in the standard American / standard western diet (SAD/SWD) is in the form of hidden, added sugars in processed foods. A teaspoon of added sugar in tea is minimal. The 10 teaspoons in a 12 oz. can of Coke (or any other soft drink) are rather more. Or the sugars in various canned, prepared, baked, or other foods. Make your own food or eat raw / natural / unprepared foods and you'll greatly reduce your sugar intake. - Exercise, both strength training and cardio, change how your body processes sugar, and greatly reduces the negative effects of same. Something's going to kill you. Need not be sugar. You have agency.

com2kid 14y ago
> Sugar withdrawal can be modestly severe, but it's not physiologically habituating, and a couple of weeks of abstinence will get you through the worst of it. Simple carbs spike serotonin levels, and then collapse them soon afterwards. People want to feel good, so they eat more sugar, which leads to another spike. This is by definition addictive! It is also a vicious cycle. Too much sugar consumption can lead to obesity, which can then lead to depression, and of course sugar is already a person's go to treatment for feeling "down". Thus the cycle continues.
- charlieflowers 14y ago
  When you say obesity can lead to depression, what do you mean? (I'm not asking for a citation or evidence ... rather, just clarification on your meaning). Do you mean that obese people suffer reduced self-esteem which leads to depression, or do you refer to some kind of bio-chemical linkage? (Or something else entirely?)

graeme 14y ago

I found Stickk and chains.cc aren't bad for kicking habits. I'm currently trying to quit sugar. If I don't, I give $200 to a disliked politician. It's depending on me not lying, but making that committment has already made it a lot easier. 17 days in so far, and hasn't been hard, after total failure before.

dreeves 14y ago
Ooh, do you know about Beeminder? Cold turkey is probably fine for sugar but if you want to gradually wean yourself, or if you want to build in some flexibility like averaging at most 2 days of the week where you eat sugar (without pre-specifying which days those would be) then Beeminder's more quantitative approach should work better. Good luck either way! Danny (of Beeminder)

digitalWestie 14y ago

Why is this on the front page?

duey 14y ago
I actually like these health articles appearing on HN - I understand it's not on-topic, but the majority of people here sit on computers all day so the occasional tip is useful. I guess you could argue being healthier makes you a better entrepreneur/engineer/etc?
lazugod 14y ago
Because jacquesm is a well-known HN user.

apaprocki 14y ago

Personal anecdote: I just started a ~30-50g carb a day diet 15 days ago. I had maybe 2 days of withdrawal from all the sugar/carbs I used to consume, but afterwards had way more energy than I ever did in recent memory. (Assuming you eat the right amount of fat/protein.) After 2 weeks I've also lost 10 lbs (4.53 kg). I recommend everyone give it a try to see how it changes your daily routine and general sense of health.

crazygringo 14y ago
I've done that a number of times, and I always feel like I have more energy, lose weight, etc. It's fantastic. But the problem is, carbs are so damned tasty. I always wind up starting to eat a few french fries, a piece of croissant in the morning, a bit of crusty baguette, a bit of cherry pie, a homemade chocolate-chip cookie, a buttered toasted English muffin, a waffle, kettle potato chips, a hamburger with bun, a slide of brick oven thin-crust pizza... ...and pretty soon you're back to where you were before. I eat a lot less carbs now than I used to, and make sure they always have high fat content so I eat less (lots of olive oil on bread/pizza, cookies with lots of butter, etc.), and also try to make sure they're tasty enough to be worth it. But it's really hard to say no to so many of the delicious things out there!
- fingerprinter 14y ago
  Dude....carb-cycling! Seriously, this is the way to go. This one variant of the carb-cycling I used to cut down for various reason (mentioned earlier in the post). What I do: 6.5 days of VLC (Very Low Carb) of just protein+fat+green veggies (my typical meal is eggs, bacon and broccoli), less than 30g. On the 7th day, I go carb nuts at night, 2-3 hrs before bed. I don't limit carbs in this to low-GI, either, I eat what I want. I just make sure to get quality protein and keep it low fat as well. As an added bonus, on the 7th day, just before I go carb nuts, I hit the gym and really, really blast whatever body part I want to see grow. The carbs I consume later are going to spike my insulin so if I make sure my body is primed to actually use the insulin spike, I can actually grow a bit of muscle. BONUS!
olliesaunders 14y ago

santry 14y ago

One day about 3 years ago I quit sugar "cold turkey." At the time I was rather highly motivated by seeing a friend nearly killed by necrotizing fasciitis. (Not that his illness was sugar related. It's just that seeing a close friend nearly die puts things in perspective.) My taste changed within just a couple of weeks. By the third or fourth week if I accidentally drank sweetened iced tea instead of unsweetened I would nearly spit it out due to the awful taste. I also cut out all artificial sweeteners, effectively eliminating any experience of sweetness from my diet. I think previously I had drunk so much Diet Coke and eaten so many sugary things that I had conditioned myself to need that sweet taste on a regular schedule. I think one thing that helped was that I started making tea using high-quality, whole-leaf teas from adagio.com. They have such interesting flavors, I find they don't need sugar. I'm not sure I can speak to the work-related effects of not eating sugar since I was spending most of the time in the hospital with my friend. I can say that my overall mood became much more stable; there were no more mid-afternoon crashes and I genearlly found I had more energy. Being about 360 pounds at the time, this one dietary change was enough for me to lose 60 pounds over the next 12 months while still leading a mostly sedentary lifestyle.

stcredzero 14y ago
I have just quit sugar cold turkey. Carbohydrates in general, actually. (< 20 grams per day.) One thing that I will highly recommend to everyone who is trying to do this: small amounts of powdered Psyllium supplement. The best known brand in the US is Metamucil. This might set off some mental alarms, as it is marketed as a "laxative." However, it's just a concentrated source of soluble fiber that acts to bulk up material passing through the gut, helping to keep it passing through. This prevents many of the disadvantages of eating mostly foods that are rich in proteins and fats. The instructions on this stuff allow for 1 to 3 doses per day. I'm only taking 1/2 a dose at any one time, so it's acting more as a fiber supplement. That said, I also cook and eat lots of vegetables. (Green beans are quick and great! Just rinse them, steam them, and don't eat any inedible looking ends. It's best if you don't overcook them.) I never feel run down after meals any more like I used to, though I can still feel a bit tired after a particularly high fat meal. On the whole, I have a lot more energy, though I have been told that I'm a lot more irritable now. Maybe it's time to do some programming "in anger?"

gburt 14y ago

It sure sounds like he's addicted to caffeine, and just happens to put sugar in his tea.

philf 14y ago
First I thought that, too, but he mentions explicitly that tea alone doesn't work for him. So I tend to agree with what someone else on this thread said, that he might need to simply up his intake of nutrients in his diet. Especially protein and fat which produce more stable energy levels.
- Ixiaus 14y ago
  This. Far too many people believe fat is bad and don't understand that simple carbs and fat are the most easily converted to energy for the brain.
- eavc 14y ago
  Unless he's drinking decaf, several liters of iced tea intake a day would almost certainly indicate addiction and dependency. Replace 'tea' in this article with cocaine. The cocaine alone doesn't do it for him, he requires there to be some sugar in it. And then blaming the sugar withdrawal for his fuzzy head. That's basically what's happening here. Except that people tend to ignore that caffeine is a drug that can have some pretty pronounced effects when used a lot and over a long time.
  - nisa 14y ago
    > that caffeine is a drug that can have some pretty pronounced effects when used a lot and over a long time. As an avid coffee-drinker - what are these effects? I've read upon caffeine and I've found no clear evidence for permanent harm or good out of coffee.
    - eavc 14y ago
      Dependency is the big one relevant to the OP. Withdrawal can impact energy, mood, cognitive function, and cause bad headaches, among other things, I'm sure. Caffeine use can also compromise sleep, raise blood pressure, and increase anxiety. Caffeine intoxication is an acute state and has a range of effects as well, but that's not really what you're asking about. The wikipedia article actually has a good summary of some of these issues as well as others. You'll notice that the higher dosages given in that article as being risk factors for things are within the range of 'several liters of iced tea.'

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

Tichy 14y ago

Try drinking tea without sugar? Better to wean off the caffeine, though.

Kishin 14y ago

I too was pretty much addicted to sugar. Mostly dessert-like foods and soda. There are a few things that will help reduce the sugar cravings: - Eat a little more protein. No need to go crazy, but just have more protein. - Eat more fiber. Very few people eat enough fiber. Eat more fruits and vegetables. Fruits are a great way to get some sugar, but the fructose in fruit is absorbed more slowly than a cookie. - Have some cinnamon. I sprinkle a little cinnamon on everything. Occasionally I'll even take a cinnamon tablet. Supposedly helps with cravings. - Drink more water. When I pretty much stopped having sugar I was having 3-4 liters (roughly a gallon) of water a day. - Eat good fats. Nuts, peanut butter, almond butter, avocados, etc. Helps with cravings too. - And of course exercise. There are too many good things exercise does for you. I have pretty much stopped having sugar (other than in social situations i.e. given a piece of birthday cake). I drink my coffee black, no sugar in my tea, and don't drink any more soda.

eavc 14y ago

"I drink tea, lots of it, several liters per day...If I don’t drink my tea my head feels like mush." Sugar may be a red herring here. That sounds like a massive caffeine dependency.

crazygringo 14y ago
Yeah... several liters a day?? That's absolutely insane. That is not healthy at all.
- wisty 14y ago
  AFAIK, there's only been one recorded death from lethal tea poisoning. I think it was something like 14 liters a day. 200 cups a day can be lethal, but the water poisoning will probably get you first. The real dangers are alcohol + caffeine (the caffeine stops you getting tired, so you can drink more), or caffeine powder (one spoon can kill you). Several liters probably isn't healthy though.
  - eavc 14y ago
    The headline is pure hyperbole. He thinks he has a problem because he gets a fuzzy head when he doesn't drink his tea. That's caffeine withdrawal.
    - jacquesm 14y ago
      I ruled out caffeine addiction already, it's the sugar.
      - eavc 14y ago
        I would really encourage you to revisit that assumption. I'm sorry to challenge you on this, but unless the tea you drink has very low levels of caffeine, you are ingesting quite a bit of the drug each day, levels that would cause dependency and addiction. The fuzzy head thing is a typical description of caffeine withdrawal. Why do you think otherwise?

mistercow 14y ago

You can buy pure sucralose (the stuff in splenda) online for $10/ounce. It's around 600 times as sweet as sugar, so that's equivalent to paying about 25¢/lb of sugar. The upsides are that there are no documented negative health effects, it tastes pretty much like sugar, and it has no calories. The downsides are that it doesn't work like sugar chemically (you can't caramelize it or use it to activate yeast), and that you have to dilute it (I like to just make a very sweet sucralose+water solution to sweeten things with, but you could easily cut it with some other powder like maltodextrin).

olliesaunders 14y ago
And what happens after you eat this stuff for 50 years or so?
- klausjensen 14y ago
  You might be dead. Then again, I expect to be dead in 50 years regardless...
  - olliesaunders 14y ago
    What about your children?
    - mistercow 14y ago
      That's pointless speculation, and you can play that game all day until you're arguing that nothing is safe. How can we really be sure, after all, that trace compounds from sea salt aren't causing slight DNA damage that will turn our descendants 150 generations down the line into eight-legged mutants? The fact is that there is no more reason to believe that sucralose will have some as yet unobserved negative health effect than there is to believe that it will have some as yet unobserved health benefit.
- mistercow 14y ago
  It has been extensively studied (it's been around for 36 years), and there's no reason to believe anything will happen to you whatsoever. Keep in mind that you only eat one six hundredth as much as you would sugar. Conversely, imagine if sugar were a newly discovered sweetening compound, seeking FDA approval. They wouldn't get past one safety trial before "serious concerns about long term effects" knocked it out of the running. Analyzing the relative risks of sugar and sucralose, there is just no case to be made for sugar being the safer bet.

JohnsonB 14y ago

Quitting sugar is hard without a diet replacing it that satiates your appetite on a daily basis. I highly recommend Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It. Basically, an Atkins diet. That means eat as much as you want, but low carbs, high protein, high fat (including sat. fats, but no tranfats, etc.), high vegetable diet (and few fruits too, fruits are sugar.)

redcap 14y ago
But fruit has fibre, which counteracts the sugar in them, so eating fruit is ok. But fruit juice is a different matter as the pulp has been removed.
- crazygringo 14y ago
  Yeah, I'm kind of amazed by people who won't drink a Coke because it's unhealthy, but have no problem downing a 20 oz orange juice. The sugar in it may be natural, but it's still a mind-blowing amount of it.
  - ig1 14y ago
    If you're in the US Coke has corn syrup rather than sugar.

Ixiaus 14y ago

It also sounds like you're addicted to caffeine. You're probably addicted to Gluten as well. The paleo/primal food lifestyle would probably interest you greatly. (notably, sugar is my most major vice - I kicked gluten, caffeine, alcohol, and many other substances a long time ago. I still consume wheat here and there, but sugar (particularly in juice) is the worst.

ryanwaggoner 14y ago

You're not alone: sugar is the only thing I'm really addicted to, other than maybe the Internet. The only thing that has worked for me is going completely cold turkey for my two big sugar vices: candy and soda. I haven't had candy in about a year, and I haven't touched soda in three or four years. It gets easier...I don't really crave either of those things ever anymore. I still eat things that have sugar, but I don't really go overboard with anything other than candy and soda, so it's not a problem. Quit cold turkey; some of us can't handle moderation for some things.

wldlyinaccurate 14y ago

Try keeping a glass of water by you and drink that whenever you feel like having a cup of tea. If you can swap even half of your tea intake for water you'll start to feel much better within a few days since the caffeine and sugar is actually dehydrating you. I can't help but wonder if you had acquired a taste for beer as a teenager whether you would have less of a sweet tooth now...

ams6110 14y ago

Try replacing the sugar in your tea with fat, i.e. cream. Will help you feel more satiated.

duck 14y ago
Or a lemon... that is what worked for me. Now I can no longer drink sweetened tea.

cmccabe 14y ago

When I go to a restaurant, usually the only non-alcoholic things I can bear to drink are unsweetened tea and water. I really don't know how people can bear to drink the rest of the stuff. Putting sugar in drinks is nasty. Drinks with artificial sweeteners taste even worse. On the other hand, I hear the Chinese put salt in tea sometimes. That would be even worse. So how can I complain.

msutherl 14y ago

The reason that peer pressure to do drugs is so intense is that for those doing the pressuring, you look like a crazy person. They look at the vast majority of people in their environment who do drugs on a regular basis, often throughout their entire lives, and appear to be fine and happier for it. Then they look at you and, since you are in the minority, immediately conclude that you are overreacting. I grew up with a few friends who abstained from drugs completely. As they grew older and gained perspective, they slowly let down their guard and most of them fell into familiar patterns of reasonably healthy, occasional drug use. A few others had drug problems. The fact is that a minority of people have the right mix of personality, circumstances and chemistry to become addicts. To make the decision to abstain from any kind of drug use, you are eliminating the small chance that you could become an addict, which is commendable. But what you don't know is that eliminating that chance comes at a great cost. What your peers were trying to tell you was "dude, trust us, it's worth the risk!" A good friend might have said, "friend, if you never take risks, you'll never experience the full richness of life!" If I were your friend, I would say, quite honestly, that I cannot, almost as a rule, trust anybody who has not tried a variety of mind altering substances. The insight that they provide is, in my opinion, essential to developing an open mind and a deeper perspective on life. Moreover I would be wary of anybody so, to me, risk averse. But your argument would still be that I don't properly understand the risks. Perhaps that is true, but here is my point: I respect your decision to eliminate the risk of your becoming an addict, but I don't think that it is appropriate for you to be indignant. Rather, you should be sorrowful.

3pt14159 14y ago
Every single person I know that does drugs performs at or less than their potential. I've never done anything except for caffeine and alcohol, but this perspective you write about is overrated when it comes at the cost of performance, work ethic, and the possible risk of life altering addiction. It should, of course, be legal to do so.
- jules 14y ago
  Part of the reason why people want others to use the same drug is to feel less guilty about their using. That goes for people pressuring others to drink alcohol at parties, in high school to try cigarettes, in college to try marijuana, and other substances. The fact that there is a person in a group who is consciously not using the drug brings the idea to mind that using that particular drug might not be the best long term investment. Note that this does not apply to friendly advice given once (which I have no problem with), but it certainly applies to repeated social pressure or emotional blackmail. Even the grandparent borders on that territory: if you don't use drugs you can't be trusted, you have neither an open mind nor a deep perspective, and you're a wimp. If anybody who is encouraging others to use a drug wants to see the other side of the coin, try ordering a tea or water instead of a beer at a bar, and see how people react. Repeatedly I have been asked what I wanted to drink, answered tea or water, and a couple of minutes later a beer arrives. Don't be so boring, it's here now, drink it! Note that sometimes I do drink alcoholic beverages, so it's not even that they want me to experience something new. I never replace other people's drinks by tea, heck I've gladly helped people buy marijuana (legally). P.S. my kid brother is addicted to cigarettes and it's certainly not because one day somebody suggested it to him as friendly advice and he thought "Wow, you're right, smoking cigarettes would be so beneficial for me".

001sky 14y ago

Milk & Honey for your tea, folks =]

lubos 14y ago

I'm reading this article while drinking bottle of Red Bull and eating chocolate. Through the first paragraph I'm telling to myself "he is going to talk about sugar, he is going to talk about sugar". Then it comes. He says "Sugar" and I scream "Fuck!!!"

fingerprinter 14y ago
You didn't get that from the title? You must be new here ;)

delinquentme 14y ago

Sensationalist headlines! YAY! And seriously if your head feels disconnected without tea... you could probably use some exercise.

hcarvalhoalves 14y ago

Use honey or brown sugar. Quit drinking sodas and other crap you don't know how much sugar was poured into. Problem solved. Quitting carbohydrates altogether is a stupid idea. Don't do it.

eurleif 14y ago
Brown sugar is no better for you than white sugar. http://www.seattlepi.com/lifestyle/health/article/Reality-Check-Is-brown-sugar-healthier-than-1240510.php http://www.seattlepi.com/lifestyle/health/article/Reality-Ch... Xylitol is my preferred sugar substitute. It's lower in calories, and it has a much lower glycemic index. It also helps prevent cavities.
- hcarvalhoalves 14y ago
  Well, in Brazil you can buy real brown sugar (raw sugar). I don't known the crap they sell elsewhere under this name. You can even buy it in blocks here (google "rapadura"). The problem isn't in the calories, which is equivalent per gram with refined sugar, but the fact refined lacks many nutrients. The article you mention is full of crap and doesn't link to any studies, but I can tell you raw sugar has ~5mg per 100g of Iron alone. Refined sugar has absolutely zero. In a 2000kcal diety, you're consuming 50g of sugar daily. You're getting along 1/4 of daily Iron intake if raw sugar is used, for free. I'm not even going to mention Magnesium, which 70% of the world's population is deficient on. I wouldn't say the benefits are negligible. About Xylitol... what's the point in using an artificial sweetener that lacks any nutrients just because is has lower calories? Just cut caloric crap from the diet. The only benefit is for diabetics.

alan_cx 14y ago

Dunno about any one else, but I suddenly went right off sugar, suddenly it tasted foul. I have no idea why at all. I used to have 2 teaspoons in coffee, like normal coke, sprinkle it over cereal and fruit, and so on. One day I made my usual coffee and it was just sickly. I chucked it down the sink and made a new one with out sugar and its was fantastic. Same for everything else. Weird, but there it is.

sbochins 14y ago

Abstaining from sugar, tobacco, alcohol, or marijuana seems kind of silly to me. I know that the culture on HN is to try to empower people to be supermen and do extraordinary things. But, when I think of the dedication required to abstain from all these things given the environment I live in, I feel anxiety. I think anxiety and stress is something that is much more harmful to me than smoking a blunt or drinking a glass of whiskey. I never understood why some people take such a black and white (simple) perspective on this. I guess the only reason I could see is if someone very close to them died from one of these vices, but that is kind of an irrational reaction. I understand it, but wouldn't advocate anyone reacting that way. In short, I don't really see how soft drugs or unhealthy foods in moderate quantity are really harmful in the grand scheme of things.

nacker 14y ago

"I vowed to simply abstain from any drug at all. No Beer, Wine, Spirits, smokes, hash, coke or other dope for me. I wanted to be healthy and to live as long as possible while keeping my body in as good a shape as I could." Well Jacques, it is quite strange and disappointing to see that you have spent your life following such a simplistic approach to human brain chemistry. You seem to have accepted uncritically the message promulgated by your local government about the effects of psychoactive chemicals, that is, that alcohol, "smokes", hash, coke, or "other dope" is bad for your health, and will reduce your lifespan. In the first place, does it seem rational to you to group the effects of such a wide range of different chemicals together? Tobacco and alcohol, for example, have nothing in common chemically or pharmacologicaly. Their effects on your health or longevity are completely independent of each other. What they have in common is that they have a psychologically pleasant effect, like the other varieties of "dope" you mention. Perhaps you have bought into the Calvinistic worldview that what is pleasurable must be ultimately harmful. Do you not indulge in such temptingly wicked practices as dancing and umm, recreational sex either? How about an item by item rational, scientific approach to each chemical? I'm not going to attempt to be exhaustive here, as anyone can look up a hundred resources, but, as a first approach, I think that your strategy of "complete abstention" is misguided at best. Of course anything can be overdone to the point of being harmful, even internet usage, so all of my comments below apply only to moderate, reasonable, sensible use. Alcohol: Legal, moderate addictive potential, overuse increases violence and recklessness. Numerous studies have shown than moderate usage is beneficial to health. Overuse causes liver problems and Korsakoff's Syndrome. Social lubricant enjoyed around the world. Tobacco: Legal, highly addictive, carcinogenic. Mental stimulant. Cannabis: Illegal. Barely to zero addictive potential, cancer preventative/therapy. No known overdose. Stimulates creative ideas. Dissolves obedience to authoritarian world-views. Coke: Illegal. Highly addictive. Mental stimulant. Causes holes in internasal septum and generally manic asshole behavior. Psychedelics: Illegal. Highly NON-addictive. A large proportion of users say they have caused the most significant experiences of their entire lives. No known physical effects. Personally, although I agree with you about sugar, I'm really more concerned that you have accepted a bland, timid, dumbed-down, boring, government-dictated life, than that you are taking any serious health risks. I think you should take a few risks and get out a little, before you die. How about a fat spliff, a hearty Merlot, and an Ayahuasca trip to the Amazon? You never know, you might find that you've been living your life so far in black and white.

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ChristianMarks 14y ago

I have never taken narcotics. I have no interest in alcohol or tobacco. These days, the thought of sex is revolting. Peer pressure means little to me: I avoid people as much as possible, which helps. If I didn't, I might have to listen to self-serving, fatuous nonsense about how I ought to have an open mind about taking drugs or drinking, or at least take the trouble to examine every controlled substance on a case-by-case basis, despite a lack of interest and time. My justification for not doing so: I am rational, according to a cost-benefit analysis I haven't done. (Which is to say, I don't need a reason.) That said, I've tried to reduce my sugar intake--no sugar in coffee, etc, but this has been difficult.

nacker 14y ago
Why do you think it is "self-serving" to suggest that you ought to have an open mind? If you don't want to take the trouble to investigate subjects which are of no interest to you, and for which you are just too darn busy, that is just fine, you don't need a reason. You might choose to live your life in a cardboard box, after all, as long as you're happy there. Plenty of people will think you are missing out on life, though. But since you avoid people, you wouldn't care, I guess. Have a good one...
- deleted 14y ago
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- ChristianMarks 14y ago
  Why do you think I wrote that it is self-serving to suggest that I ought to have an open mind per se, when I wrote that it was self-serving to suggest that I ought to have an open mind about taking drugs or drinking? When you figure out what led you to distort my meaning, you should have the answer to your question.

jacquesm 14y ago

I'm kind of surprised to see this one on HN, it definitely wasn't the intention, there is no link to hacking here as far as I can see. That said, now that it is there it is a great source of feedback, for all those that have made constructive suggestions in this thread and in the comments on the blog post, thank you very much, and I will certainly take some of those suggestions to heart and implement them.

meric 14y ago
You can try chinese tea. It tastes horrible with sugar.
gbog 14y ago
I skimmed the comments and did not see this obvious suggestion: you are not really drinking tea, you are drinking tea-coke. Just start drinking the real stuff, a few leaves of green Chinese tea in hot water. I usually go for longjing tea. It is a tad sour with chocolate fragrance. No one would ever add sugar in this dope.

shanev 14y ago

Some people much smarter than myself, like Dr. Robert Lustig at UCSF, believe that sugar is the main cause for "diseases of affluence" like diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. I've been on the Paleo diet, which eschews refined sugar, for over four years. I've lost a lot of weight and feel better than I have felt in many years. I know this is just an n=1 study and doesn't vilify sugar in isolation, but I believe it played a huge role in making me healthier. Sugar is just as bad as those other drugs and maybe more so. Eating it is like shooting yourself, but with a very slow moving bullet. It'll catch up to you at some point.

endtime 14y ago

Try stevia, which (as far as we know) is a totally non-toxic sweetener. It doesn't work for everything, but I think it'd be just fine for tea.

rcthompson 14y ago

Something to consider regarding artificial sweeteners: your digestive tract has the same sweet-taste receptors as the taste buds on your tongue. It uses these to decide when to activate sugar metabolizing/storage pathways. Since artificial sweeteners activate the receptors on your tongue, it is reasonable to assume that they also activate the ones in your digestive tract, thus misleading your body about how much sugar it has consumed and causing it to respond inappropriately, probably causing something like a sugar crash as your body releases insulin to combat an influx of sugar that never arrives.

pault 14y ago
I can only speak for myself, but this is exactly what happens when I consume artificial sweeteners. I get tired, cranky, and hungry about 30 minutes afterwards. I switched from the 'milkshake' style protein drinks after workouts to pure whey isolate and my late night food cravings stopped completely. Too bad the whey isolate tastes, well, awful isn't strong enough of a word.

idonthack 14y ago

his apparent tea addiction is hilarious in context with all of this

rcthompson 14y ago

I can't tell if this article is completely serious or partially tongue-in-cheek. The bit that really stuck out at me: "If I don’t use sugar ... then I simply get ... very low on energy. ... I’m not sure what the link is here, all I know is that without that chemical in my bloodstream for some reason I can’t get my head in first gear, let alone second or third." I found it hard to take that seriously, given that your body will put sugar in your bloodstream regardless of what you eat, and without any sugar in your bloodstream you would quickly die. Of course, the overall point of the article still stands.

EGreg 14y ago

Your brain consumes a lot of energy, and it feeds off the sugar. I am not sure what studies have been done about intense concentration and conscious brain activity involved in coding and so forth, but I can see why your brain has developed a habit of relying on sugar. Sugar is actually more addictive than many other drugs. Rats often preferred it to cocaine and got addicted to it just like a drug. http://sarvahealthandwellness.com/?p=402 http://sarvahealthandwellness.com/?p=402 http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2008/12/12/22428/ http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2008/12/12/22428/ You might try varying the sugar to brown sugar or honey. Or eat fruits such as grapes which are a source of glucose! Also, apples have been known to wake you up in the morning better than coffee.

dllthomas 14y ago

Rather than dropping the sugar from your tea, try finding some good coffee and drinking it black. That way, you're not getting almost the same experience but without the sugar. You're getting a radically different experience with most of the same chemicals. Not that this is guaranteed to work, by a long shot, but it seems worth a try. Edited to add: The above assumes it's mostly psychosomatic, which seems quite possible and worth testing but isn't anything like guaranteed. If there is a nutritional component then eating more, smaller meals may help. I assume you're eating breakfast in the first place?

nodrama 14y ago

that seems a lot of tea too. The only really good liquid is pure water. I'm lucky enough that we drink water straigth from a spring.