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Humanity’s greatest journey so far has only reached the closest world to us: the Moon ... in a universe that stretches endlessly in every direction and is seemi

Humanity’s greatest journey so far has only reached the closest world to us: the Moon ... in a universe that stretches endlessly in every direction and is seemingly infinite. It's kind of wild to think about: we might end up collapsing our own civilization before we ever make it beyond our solar system. At this point, I suspect the next real explorers won't be us, but probes carrying intelligent machines..our robotic descendants venturing where we can’t.

wormius 1y ago
"we might end up collapsing our own civilization before we ever make it beyond our solar system." Given what I see in the past 15 years, I don't particularly see that as a problem, honestly.
- antod 1y ago
  "Some say it has already happened..."
- freakynit 1y ago
  Lol
PeaceTed 1y ago
Many see this as the answer to the Fermi paradox. Any society on the path to being advanced enough to potentially leave their system probably gains the ability to destroy themselves before getting to that point. Short terms issues preventing long term gains.
- nake89 1y ago
  That is one answer. Another possibility (the one I prefer, since this is mere speculation anyway) is that we are early.
  - ojo-rojo 1y ago
    Early as in we may have developed before any other civilizations? That's interesting. We're speculating of course, but what would explain us being the first after so much time – 13.8 billion years?
    - theoreticalmal 1y ago
      I think that’s the question, is 13.8 billion years a lot of time, of not a lot of time?
    - chistev 1y ago
      Maybe we aren't the first living things to exist in the universe, but the first intelligent ones, and intelligent here meaning creatures with ability to ask these questions and make space probes to explore the universe. Maybe intelligence isn't always a product of evolution. Even here on Earth, in the, what, 4 billion years history of the planet, humans are the only evolved creatures with intelligence as defined here. Maybe intelligence doesn't always occur. A lengthy tangentially related post on my blog if you care - https://www.rxjourney.net/extraterrestrial-intelligence-and-immortality https://www.rxjourney.net/extraterrestrial-intelligence-and-...
      - C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
        > Even here on Earth, in the, what, 4 billion years history of the planet, humans are the only evolved creatures with intelligence as defined here. Maybe intelligence doesn't always occur. It is unlikely that other beings becoming intelligent enough to rival us and deny us the supremacy over the planet would ever be allowed. Homo sapiens are believed to have "contributed to" the extinction of several other modern-human-like species (one of them being the Neanderthals). How many other times before could something similar have happened, perhaps far earlier in the evolutionary timeline? The only way we would allow sufficiently highly intelligent life to develop and flourish is if it is completely subservient to us.
    - mycall 1y ago
      Quite unlikely, but if there is a multiverse, everything is possible.
- takinola 11mo ago
  One (terrifying) option is we are alone. There is no real reason to believe life is abundant in the universe. Even on Earth (the one place we know for sure can support life), life has only occurred once. Life may just be so much more rare than we think is possible.
  - kadoban 11mo ago
    > Even on Earth (the one place we know for sure can support life), life has only occurred once. We don't actually know that at all. It could have happened many times and one line won out, it could have been more of a diffuse process than a single event (picture how microbes share genetic material ~freely but even less structured), or there could be a ton of life out there on Earth that's from a completely different tree. We really have very little idea what's living around us.
    - takinola 11mo ago
      If there is a different tree of life right here on Earth and we don't know about it, that would cast doubt on our ability to detect life in worlds light years away. Also, if life had multiple false starts here on Earth, that does also suggest that it is very difficult to take hold even on the original Goldilocks planet. The idea that multiple versions of "life" co-developed and became a single strain is quite interesting to consider. I wonder what else needs to be true to support that theory.
      - kadoban 11mo ago
        > If there is a different tree of life right here on Earth and we don't know about it, that would cast doubt on our ability to detect life in worlds light years away. Hm, I don't think it does. The problem is vastly different. Here, on Earth the problem is: sift through all of life for some that's different than the rest. A _hard_ problem with how little of microscopic life we've cataloged completely and with how much of the volume of Earth we can't see. The problem looking for life in the stars is more: find evidence of _any_ life, so radio signals or chemicals that can't reasonably come from anything else but biology. Those are hard as hell, but fundamentally different. > Also, if life had multiple false starts here on Earth, that does also suggest that it is very difficult to take hold even on the original Goldilocks planet. That would be interesting. I kind of guess it's less likely than some kind of winner-take-all outcompeting thing, but who knows. Life that we see is just very good at spreading, escaping and holding on tight.
- thegrim33 11mo ago
  If there isn't a good rationale why it'd be applicable to every civilization that has ever arisen, then it isn't a good fermi paradox solution. Otherwise, if even 1%, or 0.1%, don't fall into the same trap, the galaxy still ends up completely colonized.
chistev 1y ago
Both Voyager space probes are way farther away than the moon. Is this a reference I'm not understanding?
- JohnBooty 1y ago
  Parent poster is considering only crewed journeys, surely.
Peteragain 1y ago
Yep. Ghost in the shell. The robots are just the next stage in the evolution of life..
xnx 1y ago
> Humanity’s greatest journey so far has only reached the closest world to us: the Moon ... in a universe that stretches endlessly in every direction and is seemingly infinite. I've never felt this impulse. To me it's like saying the Earth is 8,000 miles thick but we all chose to live within just a few feet of the surface.
Snowfield9571 11mo ago
Any manned mission in the next 100 years or so to the surface of a moon or planet is basically unnecessary and just to show we can. I am not saying this is a bad thing - but much of the reasons we haven't had manned missions is because it isn't worth it. Robots can do most of what we can do already and what they can't we can do remotely. There's really not a great science reason to send people with our current technology. Robots are already the real explorers.

wormius 1y ago

"we might end up collapsing our own civilization before we ever make it beyond our solar system." Given what I see in the past 15 years, I don't particularly see that as a problem, honestly.

antod 1y ago
"Some say it has already happened..."
freakynit 1y ago
Lol

PeaceTed 1y ago

Many see this as the answer to the Fermi paradox. Any society on the path to being advanced enough to potentially leave their system probably gains the ability to destroy themselves before getting to that point. Short terms issues preventing long term gains.

nake89 1y ago
That is one answer. Another possibility (the one I prefer, since this is mere speculation anyway) is that we are early.
- ojo-rojo 1y ago
  Early as in we may have developed before any other civilizations? That's interesting. We're speculating of course, but what would explain us being the first after so much time – 13.8 billion years?
  - theoreticalmal 1y ago
    I think that’s the question, is 13.8 billion years a lot of time, of not a lot of time?
  - chistev 1y ago
    Maybe we aren't the first living things to exist in the universe, but the first intelligent ones, and intelligent here meaning creatures with ability to ask these questions and make space probes to explore the universe. Maybe intelligence isn't always a product of evolution. Even here on Earth, in the, what, 4 billion years history of the planet, humans are the only evolved creatures with intelligence as defined here. Maybe intelligence doesn't always occur. A lengthy tangentially related post on my blog if you care - https://www.rxjourney.net/extraterrestrial-intelligence-and-immortality https://www.rxjourney.net/extraterrestrial-intelligence-and-...
    - C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
      > Even here on Earth, in the, what, 4 billion years history of the planet, humans are the only evolved creatures with intelligence as defined here. Maybe intelligence doesn't always occur. It is unlikely that other beings becoming intelligent enough to rival us and deny us the supremacy over the planet would ever be allowed. Homo sapiens are believed to have "contributed to" the extinction of several other modern-human-like species (one of them being the Neanderthals). How many other times before could something similar have happened, perhaps far earlier in the evolutionary timeline? The only way we would allow sufficiently highly intelligent life to develop and flourish is if it is completely subservient to us.
  - mycall 1y ago
    Quite unlikely, but if there is a multiverse, everything is possible.
takinola 11mo ago
One (terrifying) option is we are alone. There is no real reason to believe life is abundant in the universe. Even on Earth (the one place we know for sure can support life), life has only occurred once. Life may just be so much more rare than we think is possible.
- kadoban 11mo ago
  > Even on Earth (the one place we know for sure can support life), life has only occurred once. We don't actually know that at all. It could have happened many times and one line won out, it could have been more of a diffuse process than a single event (picture how microbes share genetic material ~freely but even less structured), or there could be a ton of life out there on Earth that's from a completely different tree. We really have very little idea what's living around us.
  - takinola 11mo ago
    If there is a different tree of life right here on Earth and we don't know about it, that would cast doubt on our ability to detect life in worlds light years away. Also, if life had multiple false starts here on Earth, that does also suggest that it is very difficult to take hold even on the original Goldilocks planet. The idea that multiple versions of "life" co-developed and became a single strain is quite interesting to consider. I wonder what else needs to be true to support that theory.
    - kadoban 11mo ago
      > If there is a different tree of life right here on Earth and we don't know about it, that would cast doubt on our ability to detect life in worlds light years away. Hm, I don't think it does. The problem is vastly different. Here, on Earth the problem is: sift through all of life for some that's different than the rest. A _hard_ problem with how little of microscopic life we've cataloged completely and with how much of the volume of Earth we can't see. The problem looking for life in the stars is more: find evidence of _any_ life, so radio signals or chemicals that can't reasonably come from anything else but biology. Those are hard as hell, but fundamentally different. > Also, if life had multiple false starts here on Earth, that does also suggest that it is very difficult to take hold even on the original Goldilocks planet. That would be interesting. I kind of guess it's less likely than some kind of winner-take-all outcompeting thing, but who knows. Life that we see is just very good at spreading, escaping and holding on tight.
thegrim33 11mo ago
If there isn't a good rationale why it'd be applicable to every civilization that has ever arisen, then it isn't a good fermi paradox solution. Otherwise, if even 1%, or 0.1%, don't fall into the same trap, the galaxy still ends up completely colonized.

chistev 1y ago

Both Voyager space probes are way farther away than the moon. Is this a reference I'm not understanding?

JohnBooty 1y ago
Parent poster is considering only crewed journeys, surely.

Peteragain 1y ago

Yep. Ghost in the shell. The robots are just the next stage in the evolution of life..

xnx 1y ago

> Humanity’s greatest journey so far has only reached the closest world to us: the Moon ... in a universe that stretches endlessly in every direction and is seemingly infinite. I've never felt this impulse. To me it's like saying the Earth is 8,000 miles thick but we all chose to live within just a few feet of the surface.

Snowfield9571 11mo ago

Any manned mission in the next 100 years or so to the surface of a moon or planet is basically unnecessary and just to show we can. I am not saying this is a bad thing - but much of the reasons we haven't had manned missions is because it isn't worth it. Robots can do most of what we can do already and what they can't we can do remotely. There's really not a great science reason to send people with our current technology. Robots are already the real explorers.