4 ms·

I am never handing my phone to a cop.

by xd1936 11mo ago

bitpush 11mo ago
I get what you're saying, but if you think of it what we're doing today - handing over the one and only official piece of document to a) cop b) club bouncer etc. They can hold onto it, and never return it. They can deface it. All of that is a possibilty. You could argue, a sufficiently locked down phone is a better alternative. If they do something, you'll only lose $$
- barbazoo 11mo ago
  > They can hold onto it, and never return it. They can deface it. All of that is a possibility. But they can't potentially look at your banking app, read private notes, messages and emails, operate your home automation, look at your calendar, etc. if all they have is a plastic card.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - magnetic 11mo ago
    They can't do that either with Wallet items. That's kind of the point: you can hand over your phone with a wallet item "unlocked" and visible on the screen, and that's all they'll have access to.
    - barbazoo 11mo ago
      Sure but then you've already given them your phone after which you don't know what happens. Plus it's a lot of leverage for them to have it, e.g. "unlock or you won't get it back".
    - iamnothere 11mo ago
      Until they covertly plug it in to the Cellebrite unit back in the patrol car.
- therein 11mo ago
  I feel exactly the opposite about what you said. The ID is just an ID, my phone is my phone with other stuff in it.
- ayntkilove 11mo ago
  ... and if they hold the document upside down they can see your browser history and with a UV flashlight they can quick scan your app list for intel.
- JoshTriplett 11mo ago
  If I lose a piece of ID, I've lost a piece of paper/plastic. I'm inconvenienced, but can easily get a replacement and have the original invalidated.
  - 0x457 11mo ago
    > have the original invalidated. Only for it's "original" use case - traffic laws enforcement. I don't think any other entity can validate if this piece of plastic is invalidated or not. Also, it's not like information on lost ID gets erased when you get a new one: still has your address, DOB and other info that can be misused.
  - op00to 11mo ago
    > have the original invalidated. I once had three valid drivers' licenses, because my wallet was stolen (later returned), and I left my ID at a bar. All three were valid for use at the same time despite being reported lost/stolen - they had identical barcodes, etc.
- runako 11mo ago
  Exactly this. If your only license is on your phone, and the police officer decides to confiscate your license, now you have a lot more problems beyond not being able to legally drive.
throw0101d 11mo ago
> I am never handing my phone to a cop. The point is that you don't have to: > To present a Digital ID in person, users can double-click the side button or Home button to access Apple Wallet and select Digital ID. From there, they can hold their iPhone or Apple Watch near an identity reader, review the specific information being requested, and use Face ID or Touch ID to authenticate. "hold … near … review" If you're (e.g.) buying alcohol, then the "specific information" would be your birthday, and that is all that would be sent over. With a regular ID, verifying your age would mean handing over your physical card which would have all sorts of other non-relevant information to the task at hand. Further: > Only the information needed for a transaction is presented, and the user has the opportunity to review and authorize the information being requested with Face ID or Touch ID before it is shared. Users do not need to unlock, show, or hand over their device to present their ID. AIUI, cops would have a verifying device or app and the information requested—which you authorize—is sent over wirelessly. Kind of like how you no longer have to hand over your credit/debit cards to (possibly malicious) cashiers, and just keep it in your hand and tap. (Older people may remember the carbon copy 'ka-chunk' machines.) With a physical ID you have to hand that over because that is the only way the information can be read off of it. With a digital ID you can send a copy of your ID without physical exchange / handover.
- 0x457 11mo ago
  > If you're (e.g.) buying alcohol, then the "specific information" would be your birthday, and that is all that would be sent over. Unless there is a very tight control over this - lol nope. Big stores will request as much as they can to target you with ads.
  - op00to 11mo ago
    You could then decide not to buy the alcohol. Unless you are severely addicted, you will not die if you don't purchase alcohol.
    - 0x457 11mo ago
      Yes, but the point is that we already know (app permissions, cookie tracking consents) that "ask only what you need to function" isn't how sellers operate. Also, you need an ID to buy some OTC medicine and to pick up some prescribed medicine. As well some other cases when ID needs to be presented, but those probably require more than just DOB anyway.
moralestapia 11mo ago
That is usually not something you choose.
- dmix 11mo ago
  Only if you're being arrested. If you're at a traffic stop or tons of other scenarios would never need to.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - runako 11mo ago
    It's normal for police at a traffic stop to take your license back to their car while they write a ticket or whatever. Until laws change, having your only license on your phone means handing your phone to an officer until they are satisfied they no longer need it.
    - dmix 11mo ago
      Yeah that’s why OP said he wouldn’t hand his phone over. Implying he prefers a physical one.
    - tjohns 11mo ago
      States that have implemented mobile drivers licenses are starting to issue handheld readers to police officers, precisely so what you describe doesn't happen. The people building this know nobody wants to hand their phone over to the police.
      - Muromec 11mo ago
        Surely police would never say their reader is broken and never make it your problem
      - runako 11mo ago
        Police sometimes confiscate licenses (rightly or wrongly). Having your license confiscated when it doubles as your wallet, MFA device for work, and primary communications device sounds like a disaster.

I am never handing my phone to a cop.

by xd1936 11mo ago

I am never handing my phone to a cop.

I get what you're saying, but if you think of it what we're doing today - handing over the one and only official piece of document to a) cop b) club bouncer etc. They can hold onto it, and never return it. They can deface it. All of that is a possibilty. You could argue, a sufficiently locked down phone is a better alternative. If they do something, you'll only lose $$

barbazoo 11mo ago
> They can hold onto it, and never return it. They can deface it. All of that is a possibility. But they can't potentially look at your banking app, read private notes, messages and emails, operate your home automation, look at your calendar, etc. if all they have is a plastic card.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- magnetic 11mo ago
  They can't do that either with Wallet items. That's kind of the point: you can hand over your phone with a wallet item "unlocked" and visible on the screen, and that's all they'll have access to.
  - barbazoo 11mo ago
    Sure but then you've already given them your phone after which you don't know what happens. Plus it's a lot of leverage for them to have it, e.g. "unlock or you won't get it back".
  - iamnothere 11mo ago
    Until they covertly plug it in to the Cellebrite unit back in the patrol car.
therein 11mo ago
I feel exactly the opposite about what you said. The ID is just an ID, my phone is my phone with other stuff in it.
ayntkilove 11mo ago
... and if they hold the document upside down they can see your browser history and with a UV flashlight they can quick scan your app list for intel.
JoshTriplett 11mo ago
If I lose a piece of ID, I've lost a piece of paper/plastic. I'm inconvenienced, but can easily get a replacement and have the original invalidated.
- 0x457 11mo ago
  > have the original invalidated. Only for it's "original" use case - traffic laws enforcement. I don't think any other entity can validate if this piece of plastic is invalidated or not. Also, it's not like information on lost ID gets erased when you get a new one: still has your address, DOB and other info that can be misused.
- op00to 11mo ago
  > have the original invalidated. I once had three valid drivers' licenses, because my wallet was stolen (later returned), and I left my ID at a bar. All three were valid for use at the same time despite being reported lost/stolen - they had identical barcodes, etc.
runako 11mo ago
Exactly this. If your only license is on your phone, and the police officer decides to confiscate your license, now you have a lot more problems beyond not being able to legally drive.

throw0101d 11mo ago

> I am never handing my phone to a cop. The point is that you don't have to: > To present a Digital ID in person, users can double-click the side button or Home button to access Apple Wallet and select Digital ID. From there, they can hold their iPhone or Apple Watch near an identity reader, review the specific information being requested, and use Face ID or Touch ID to authenticate. "hold … near … review" If you're (e.g.) buying alcohol, then the "specific information" would be your birthday, and that is all that would be sent over. With a regular ID, verifying your age would mean handing over your physical card which would have all sorts of other non-relevant information to the task at hand. Further: > Only the information needed for a transaction is presented, and the user has the opportunity to review and authorize the information being requested with Face ID or Touch ID before it is shared. Users do not need to unlock, show, or hand over their device to present their ID. AIUI, cops would have a verifying device or app and the information requested—which you authorize—is sent over wirelessly. Kind of like how you no longer have to hand over your credit/debit cards to (possibly malicious) cashiers, and just keep it in your hand and tap. (Older people may remember the carbon copy 'ka-chunk' machines.) With a physical ID you have to hand that over because that is the only way the information can be read off of it. With a digital ID you can send a copy of your ID without physical exchange / handover.

0x457 11mo ago
> If you're (e.g.) buying alcohol, then the "specific information" would be your birthday, and that is all that would be sent over. Unless there is a very tight control over this - lol nope. Big stores will request as much as they can to target you with ads.
- op00to 11mo ago
  You could then decide not to buy the alcohol. Unless you are severely addicted, you will not die if you don't purchase alcohol.
  - 0x457 11mo ago
    Yes, but the point is that we already know (app permissions, cookie tracking consents) that "ask only what you need to function" isn't how sellers operate. Also, you need an ID to buy some OTC medicine and to pick up some prescribed medicine. As well some other cases when ID needs to be presented, but those probably require more than just DOB anyway.

moralestapia 11mo ago

That is usually not something you choose.

dmix 11mo ago
Only if you're being arrested. If you're at a traffic stop or tons of other scenarios would never need to.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- runako 11mo ago
  It's normal for police at a traffic stop to take your license back to their car while they write a ticket or whatever. Until laws change, having your only license on your phone means handing your phone to an officer until they are satisfied they no longer need it.
  - dmix 11mo ago
    Yeah that’s why OP said he wouldn’t hand his phone over. Implying he prefers a physical one.
  - tjohns 11mo ago
    States that have implemented mobile drivers licenses are starting to issue handheld readers to police officers, precisely so what you describe doesn't happen. The people building this know nobody wants to hand their phone over to the police.
    - Muromec 11mo ago
      Surely police would never say their reader is broken and never make it your problem
    - runako 11mo ago
      Police sometimes confiscate licenses (rightly or wrongly). Having your license confiscated when it doubles as your wallet, MFA device for work, and primary communications device sounds like a disaster.