7 ms·

Frame is obviously the main headline here, but they've also launching a new SteamOS mini-PC and a new controller. https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steammach

Frame is obviously the main headline here, but they've also launching a new SteamOS mini-PC and a new controller. https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steammachine https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steammachine https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamcontroller https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamcontroller No prices listed for any of them yet, as far as I can tell.

marcosscriven 1y ago
Real shame it’s only 60Hz at 4k. There’s a gap for good 120Hz@4k streaming. Hoping the next Apple TV will do it. Edit - updated specs claim it can do this, but it’s limited to HDMI 2.0
- skeaker 1y ago
  Where are you getting this number? I'm not seeing it on the specs page.
  - marcosscriven 1y ago
    This is for the steam machine, not the headset. Mentioned in the CPU & GPU section.
  - 4ndrewl 1y ago
    it's confusing rn because on the steam machine post people are commenting on the frame and vice-versa here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903404
- jsheard 1y ago
  (rewriting this comment because the spec sheet has seemingly been updated) Looks like it can do 4k 120hz, but since it's limited to HDMI 2.0 it will have to rely on 4:2:0 chroma subsampling to get there. Unfortunately the lack of HDMI 2.1 might be down to politics, the RDNA3 GPU they're using should support it in hardware, but the HDMI Forum has blocked AMD from releasing an open source HDMI 2.1 implementation. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/hdmi-forum-to-amd-no-you-cant-make-an-open-source-hdmi-2-1-driver/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/hdmi-forum-to-amd-no...
  - PaulHoule 1y ago
    ... but isn't it using a wireless dongle to connect to the headset to the PC so HDMI doesn't get involved? It seems to me the wireless is pretty important. I have an MQ3 and I have the link cable. For software development I pretty much have to plug the MQ3 into my PC and it is not so bad to wander around the living room looking in a Mars boulder from all sides and such. For games and apps that involve moving around, particularly things like Beat Saber or Supernatural the standalone headset has a huge advantage of having no cable. If I have a choice between buying a game on Steam or the MQ3 store I'm likely to buy the MQ3 game because of the convenience and freedom of standalone. A really good wireless link changes that.
    - jsheard 1y ago
      > but isn't it using a wireless dongle to connect to the headset to the PC so HDMI doesn't get involved? I'm talking about the Steam Machine here. In theory you could pipe 4k120 to the headset assuming there's enough wireless bandwidth, yeah.
  - OGWhales 1y ago
    It seems it supports DP 1.4 as well, so perhaps you could get an adapter if your display only supports HDMI 2.1
    - SchemaLoad 1y ago
      I'm not sure that would work. From what I can tell, the adapters are basically dumb straight through cables, they aren't converting anything. And it's the actual GPU that's outputting a HDMI signal over the Displayport connector, which the adapter than rewires in to a HDMI shaped connector.
      - cesarb 1y ago
        > And it's the actual GPU that's outputting a HDMI signal over the Displayport connector, which the adapter than rewires in to a HDMI shaped connector. There are two kinds of DP to HDMI adapters. The passive ones are like you said, they need special support on the GPU (these ports are usually labelled as DP++), IIRC they only do some voltage level shifting. The active ones work on any DP port (they don't need AFAIK any special support on the GPU), and they do the full protocol conversion.
- srjek 1y ago
  So, in the specs for the mini-pc, it claims the video out can do 4K @ 120Hz (even faster if displayport). I assume the 4K @ 60Hz you saw is from the "4K gaming at 60 FPS with FSR" line. I reckon it can probably stream at 4K@120 if it can game at half that.
  - marcosscriven 1y ago
    Interesting. I also saw HDMI 2.0 - I guess it’s technically possible but with subsampling?
- constantcrying 1y ago
  This is not true, from the specs: HDMI 2.0 Up to 4K @ 120Hz Supports HDR, FreeSync, and CEC I have zero doubts the device can do 4k @ 120Hz streaming Hardware wise. In the end it is just a normal Linux desktop.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- torginus 1y ago
  Considering how much they talk about Foveated rendering, I think it might not be constrained by the traditional limitations of screens - instead of sending a fixed resolution image at whatever frequency, it'll send a tiny but highly detailed image where your eyes are focusing, with the rest being considerably lower resolution. Or that's what I think I may be completely wrong.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
phantasmish 1y ago
Oh hell yes. There was a leak of specs (via a benchmarking database) of an upcoming machine from Valve and I had my fingers crossed that it was a mini PC and not some VR thingy, saw this thread, and was sad for a moment before I spotted this post. 6x as powerful as the Steam deck (that I use plugged in anyway 98% of the time—I’d have bought a Steam Deck 2, but I’m glad I get the option to put money toward more performance instead of battery and screen that I don’t use) is great. Not a lot of games I want to play won’t run well at least at 1080p with specs like that.
- torginus 1y ago
  Snapdragon doesn't really have a good history of supporting proper desktop games. Windows for ARM had kinda bad compatibility. It seems the aim is to have most games just be playable like with the Deck. Fingers crossed but I have some reservations.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - phantasmish 1y ago
    Their new mini PC isn’t ARM (the Frame is, though), it’s AMD hardware like the Steam Deck. Appears to be x86, should play basically anything in my library at 1080p or higher as long as it works under SteamOS.
    - torginus 1y ago
      I know but the Frame supports regular x86 games as well in standalone mode.
      - klohto 1y ago
        you run FEX, not direct ARM games
        torginus 1y ago
JBiserkov 1y ago
A bit of topic, but I was wondering how much bigger is the steam machine compared to the mac mini m4, since that's what I have and is my frame of reference. Obviously comparing apples to oranges and only talking about physical volume, not features, compatibility, price, personal preferences, etc. Mac Mini m4: 127 x 127 x 50 mm = 0.8 L Steam Machine: 156 x 162 x 152 = 3.8 L That's 4.76 times more volume.
- latexr 1y ago
  > Obviously comparing apples to oranges Or is it “comparing apples to steam engines”?
  - TuringTest 1y ago
    Given that Valve are the ones who released the Orange Box, methinks the original comparison is valid
- bakies 1y ago
  It's only a little bigger than Mac Studio. 9.5 x 19.7 x 19.7 cm = 3,687 cm³ and half the size of my SFFPC @ 8.3L
komali2 1y ago
I am incredibly excited for the new controller. The og steam controller for me was unmatched as a controller, I could never play any first person game on anything else other than mouse and keyboard, not to mention it allows playing rts or point and clicks from the couch. When they cancelled production I bought 8.
- tosmatos 1y ago
  The controller looks pretty cool for sure, my biggest fear is the dpad though. I hope they go for a clicky feel like on the latest xbox controllers, and not the mushy feel you've got on the Dualshock 5 or even the 8BitDo Pro 2, which, for me, really is the only think missing from those. I'm more of a "Dpad in the top left" kind of guy, but I want it to be clicky like on the Xbox controllers :( We'll see!
  - komali2 1y ago
    I'm with you on the dpad. For me I've never found better dpads outside of retro focused controllers from companies like 8bitdo, so when I want to play a retro game with dpad I just grab one of those and use my steam controller for everything else.
thefz 1y ago
> Frame is obviously the main headline here Why? VR headsets are a dying fad of the 2020s. Way more excited for SteamOS on ARM.
- russelg 1y ago
  ... which likely wouldn't have happened if they didn't want a computer inside their VR headset. The steam machine is x86 considering it's an AMD processor.

marcosscriven 1y ago

Real shame it’s only 60Hz at 4k. There’s a gap for good 120Hz@4k streaming. Hoping the next Apple TV will do it. Edit - updated specs claim it can do this, but it’s limited to HDMI 2.0

skeaker 1y ago
Where are you getting this number? I'm not seeing it on the specs page.
- marcosscriven 1y ago
  This is for the steam machine, not the headset. Mentioned in the CPU & GPU section.
- 4ndrewl 1y ago
  it's confusing rn because on the steam machine post people are commenting on the frame and vice-versa here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903404
jsheard 1y ago
(rewriting this comment because the spec sheet has seemingly been updated) Looks like it can do 4k 120hz, but since it's limited to HDMI 2.0 it will have to rely on 4:2:0 chroma subsampling to get there. Unfortunately the lack of HDMI 2.1 might be down to politics, the RDNA3 GPU they're using should support it in hardware, but the HDMI Forum has blocked AMD from releasing an open source HDMI 2.1 implementation. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/hdmi-forum-to-amd-no-you-cant-make-an-open-source-hdmi-2-1-driver/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/hdmi-forum-to-amd-no...
- PaulHoule 1y ago
  ... but isn't it using a wireless dongle to connect to the headset to the PC so HDMI doesn't get involved? It seems to me the wireless is pretty important. I have an MQ3 and I have the link cable. For software development I pretty much have to plug the MQ3 into my PC and it is not so bad to wander around the living room looking in a Mars boulder from all sides and such. For games and apps that involve moving around, particularly things like Beat Saber or Supernatural the standalone headset has a huge advantage of having no cable. If I have a choice between buying a game on Steam or the MQ3 store I'm likely to buy the MQ3 game because of the convenience and freedom of standalone. A really good wireless link changes that.
  - jsheard 1y ago
    > but isn't it using a wireless dongle to connect to the headset to the PC so HDMI doesn't get involved? I'm talking about the Steam Machine here. In theory you could pipe 4k120 to the headset assuming there's enough wireless bandwidth, yeah.
- OGWhales 1y ago
  It seems it supports DP 1.4 as well, so perhaps you could get an adapter if your display only supports HDMI 2.1
  - SchemaLoad 1y ago
    I'm not sure that would work. From what I can tell, the adapters are basically dumb straight through cables, they aren't converting anything. And it's the actual GPU that's outputting a HDMI signal over the Displayport connector, which the adapter than rewires in to a HDMI shaped connector.
    - cesarb 1y ago
      > And it's the actual GPU that's outputting a HDMI signal over the Displayport connector, which the adapter than rewires in to a HDMI shaped connector. There are two kinds of DP to HDMI adapters. The passive ones are like you said, they need special support on the GPU (these ports are usually labelled as DP++), IIRC they only do some voltage level shifting. The active ones work on any DP port (they don't need AFAIK any special support on the GPU), and they do the full protocol conversion.
srjek 1y ago
So, in the specs for the mini-pc, it claims the video out can do 4K @ 120Hz (even faster if displayport). I assume the 4K @ 60Hz you saw is from the "4K gaming at 60 FPS with FSR" line. I reckon it can probably stream at 4K@120 if it can game at half that.
- marcosscriven 1y ago
  Interesting. I also saw HDMI 2.0 - I guess it’s technically possible but with subsampling?
constantcrying 1y ago
This is not true, from the specs: HDMI 2.0 Up to 4K @ 120Hz Supports HDR, FreeSync, and CEC I have zero doubts the device can do 4k @ 120Hz streaming Hardware wise. In the end it is just a normal Linux desktop.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
torginus 1y ago
Considering how much they talk about Foveated rendering, I think it might not be constrained by the traditional limitations of screens - instead of sending a fixed resolution image at whatever frequency, it'll send a tiny but highly detailed image where your eyes are focusing, with the rest being considerably lower resolution. Or that's what I think I may be completely wrong.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

phantasmish 1y ago

Oh hell yes. There was a leak of specs (via a benchmarking database) of an upcoming machine from Valve and I had my fingers crossed that it was a mini PC and not some VR thingy, saw this thread, and was sad for a moment before I spotted this post. 6x as powerful as the Steam deck (that I use plugged in anyway 98% of the time—I’d have bought a Steam Deck 2, but I’m glad I get the option to put money toward more performance instead of battery and screen that I don’t use) is great. Not a lot of games I want to play won’t run well at least at 1080p with specs like that.

torginus 1y ago
Snapdragon doesn't really have a good history of supporting proper desktop games. Windows for ARM had kinda bad compatibility. It seems the aim is to have most games just be playable like with the Deck. Fingers crossed but I have some reservations.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- phantasmish 1y ago
  Their new mini PC isn’t ARM (the Frame is, though), it’s AMD hardware like the Steam Deck. Appears to be x86, should play basically anything in my library at 1080p or higher as long as it works under SteamOS.
  - torginus 1y ago
    I know but the Frame supports regular x86 games as well in standalone mode.
    - klohto 1y ago
      you run FEX, not direct ARM games
      - torginus 1y ago

JBiserkov 1y ago

A bit of topic, but I was wondering how much bigger is the steam machine compared to the mac mini m4, since that's what I have and is my frame of reference. Obviously comparing apples to oranges and only talking about physical volume, not features, compatibility, price, personal preferences, etc. Mac Mini m4: 127 x 127 x 50 mm = 0.8 L Steam Machine: 156 x 162 x 152 = 3.8 L That's 4.76 times more volume.

latexr 1y ago
> Obviously comparing apples to oranges Or is it “comparing apples to steam engines”?
- TuringTest 1y ago
  Given that Valve are the ones who released the Orange Box, methinks the original comparison is valid
bakies 1y ago
It's only a little bigger than Mac Studio. 9.5 x 19.7 x 19.7 cm = 3,687 cm³ and half the size of my SFFPC @ 8.3L

komali2 1y ago

I am incredibly excited for the new controller. The og steam controller for me was unmatched as a controller, I could never play any first person game on anything else other than mouse and keyboard, not to mention it allows playing rts or point and clicks from the couch. When they cancelled production I bought 8.

tosmatos 1y ago
The controller looks pretty cool for sure, my biggest fear is the dpad though. I hope they go for a clicky feel like on the latest xbox controllers, and not the mushy feel you've got on the Dualshock 5 or even the 8BitDo Pro 2, which, for me, really is the only think missing from those. I'm more of a "Dpad in the top left" kind of guy, but I want it to be clicky like on the Xbox controllers :( We'll see!
- komali2 1y ago
  I'm with you on the dpad. For me I've never found better dpads outside of retro focused controllers from companies like 8bitdo, so when I want to play a retro game with dpad I just grab one of those and use my steam controller for everything else.

thefz 1y ago

> Frame is obviously the main headline here Why? VR headsets are a dying fad of the 2020s. Way more excited for SteamOS on ARM.

russelg 1y ago
... which likely wouldn't have happened if they didn't want a computer inside their VR headset. The steam machine is x86 considering it's an AMD processor.