8 ms·

How will Waymos handle speed limits on highways? In the city, they seem to stick to the rules. A large percentage of drivers in the bay area, including non-emer

by s1mon 11mo ago

How will Waymos handle speed limits on highways? In the city, they seem to stick to the rules. A large percentage of drivers in the bay area, including non-emergency police, drive well above the legal limit regularly. Unless Waymo sticks to the slow lane, it's going to be a weird issue.

tintor 11mo ago
[flagged]
- embedding-shape 11mo ago
  Indeed, and I'm guessing the Waymos have forward facing cameras + know their own speed? Feels like a natural jump to begin automatically reporting cars that are speeding past them to the police, with a camera snapshot of the plate, with everything else censored.
- dogman144 11mo ago
  Why is that the problem for above the legal speed limit drivers? A slow fleet of Waymo’s will impact your average 5-10 over same as your 20 over, and that’ll collectively impact traffic. The implicit assumption you and many other in tech share is humans must adapt to the tech protocol, and not the other way around. After 20 years of growing negative externalities from this general approach, which I see baked into your comment - are we seriously about to let this occur all over again with a new version of tech? Fool me once, fool me twice… I think we’re at fool me 10 times and do it again in terms of civic trust of tech in its spaces.
  - testdummy13 11mo ago
    As long as they don't sit in the passing lane, I don't see how a fleet of vehicles moving at a consistent speed and not driving erratically will have any more negative impact on traffic than a human driver. Like other's have mentioned, it might actually improve traffic as you don't have people speeding up to get close to a person and then quickly slowing down, causing "phantom" traffic jams. Also, if the Waymos are following the laws, and that causes problems... then maybe those laws should be changed? Especially if most drivers already don't follow the laws.
- andy99 11mo ago
  Sounds like you’ve never driven on a highway. Taking some imaginary moral high ground doesn’t make one any less dangerous.
  - bigstrat2003 11mo ago
    There is nothing whatsoever dangerous about driving the speed limit on a highway.
- gs17 11mo ago
  That's a great way to make them targets for vandalism. I'm in a city they're about to get in to (Nashville), and if the snitch-mobile tattled on everyone (the highways here that are officially 55 are "really" 75 with some exceptions, and going the speed limit can end up being more dangerous), sensors would start getting bullet holes. Of course, unlike the normal car break-ins here, the cops might do something about them.
  - IncreasePosts 11mo ago
    How about you just change the speed limits to 75 then
  - Yizahi 11mo ago
    Does speed cameras not exist in the USA? If I were to drive 30% faster above the limit regularly, I would go broke over here, across the pond.
    - gs17 11mo ago
      I've never heard of them on highways, but several states ban their use for enforcement in general.
- toss1 11mo ago
  No, it is not only a problem for "'well above the legal limit' speeding drivers"; it is a problem for you, and the solution requires more thought than the "just follow the rules" that you put into your post. There are many instances where the entire mass of traffic across three or four lanes is 10-20mph above the stated limit, e.g., going 75-85mph in a 66mph posted area. It may not be legal, but it is reality. And when it is everyone, it is not only "aggressive" drivers. It is everyone. And one driver thinking they will change the situation only makes it worse. If you are going 20-30mph below the speed of traffic you are at least as much a hazard to yourself and everyone around you as going 20-30mph above the speed of traffic, and the stated speed limit has nothing to do with it. Going substantially slower than traffic, even in the slow lane with flashers on, nearly all of the threats and actions are overtaking you and coming from behind you, meaning to see and react to most of the developing situations, you must be driving through your rear-view mirrors. And the situation you create can be very deadly, as one car can change lanes to avoid you, revealing you late to the next car, which barely changes lanes, and further reduces time for the next, who hits you and starts the pile-up. It is not only their problem, it is yours too. Sure, you may be legally in the right, but you have still caused yourself to get hit. What my grandfather explained to me is still correct: "You never want to be dead right."
mkinsella 11mo ago
In the few times I’ve seen a Waymo on the freeway in the Bay Area, they have always been in the slow lane and driving 55-65 MPH.
jeffbee 11mo ago
If you watch the videos that insiders have been posting, it never exceeds the speed limits. If you watch the videos more carefully, you will notice the people who speed by at 85 MPH later enter the screen again, because that is the nature of freeway traffic. I predict that a few hundred of these on the road will measurably improve safety and decrease severe congestion by being that one sane driver that defuses stop-and-go catastrophes. In fact I think CHP should just contract with them to pace 101 in waves.
- aworks 11mo ago
  I was on 101 during evening rush hour, speeding along like everyone. Then I saw brake lights from a Waymo. Later followed by all the surrounding cars. Interesting that it was the first to detect a slowdown.
  - potato3732842 11mo ago
    First to apply brake, not first to detect. Normal human drivers tend to lift off the gas and only brake when they decide that just lifting won't do.
    - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
      > Normal human drivers tend to lift off the gas and only brake when they decide that just lifting won't do Don't EVs light up the brake lights when regenerative braking engages?
      - macintux 11mo ago
        As best as I can tell, not universally. I'm rather obsessive about watching brake lights around me; my state doesn't have safety inspections, so I try my best to alert other drivers when they have brake lights out. I've definitely observed Teslas coming to a halt, and the brake lights only kick on at the very end. I don't know how widespread the problem is, but it's very annoying.
cortesoft 11mo ago
Luckily this won't be a problem in Los Angeles, because traffic prevents you from ever going over the speed limit.
- nradov 11mo ago
  It's hilarious to see people in LA buying sports cars. Like even if you're willing to risk a speeding ticket you won't be able to drive faster than the traffic in front of you. Just a status symbol, I guess.
  - btian 11mo ago
    There are many race tracks in LA area.
  - kirubakaran 11mo ago
    To the extent that it's rational, it's more about acceleration than velocity
    - djoldman 11mo ago
      It's about acceleration + other things. If the other things didn't matter, they would just drive a Tesla Model S Plaid with 2 second 0-60mph.
  - sib 11mo ago
    A sports car on the roads through the Malibu hills is very fun...
    - astrange 11mo ago
      But not as much as knowledge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GIwTG8V-Ko https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GIwTG8V-Ko
  - kjkjadksj 11mo ago
    There are car clubs that go on drives in the twisty santa monica mountains and san gabriel mountains.
circuit10 11mo ago
As someone who doesn’t drive but has done a UK theory test - aren’t you supposed to stick to the “slow lane” (no matter how fast you’re going) unless you’re overtaking? And that’s why it’s not actually called the “fast lane” but the “passing lane”. So I don’t see why you would be in the passing lane unless you’re going faster than others anyway. And there are plenty of lorries and coaches (trucks and buses in US terms?) that are physically limited to below the speed limit anyway Though I’ve heard people treat it differently in the US
- jjfoooo4 11mo ago
  Yes. People do in fact safely drive the speed limit. If "we'll have too many cars on the freeway following the speed limit" ranks as a serious concern, I think we've really lost the plot. I recently drove by a fatal accident that had just happened on the freeway. A man on the street had been ripped in half, and his body was lying on the road. I can't imagine the scene is all that unlike the 40 thousand other US road deaths that happen every year. As a driver I'm willing to accept some minor inconvenience to improve the situation. As a rider I trust Waymo's more than human drivers.
  - iteria 11mo ago
    It depends on where you are. There was a protest in in Atlanta about the speed limit. What did they do? They got in every. Single. Lane. As did the speed limit. This backed up traffic for miles. It stopped commercial delivery and had ramifications for entire area. The protesters were arrested. For going the legal limit. The speed limit did not change, but there is a reason why it's never enforced. I've lived in a couple of places where going the speed limit is a whole problem that can cascade outside of just yourself. There is an argument to be made that perhaps then the speed limit shouldn't be that low, but in driving safety is far more important than legality. It will be interesting to see how Waymo handles these realities when it gets to those areas.
    - robocat 11mo ago
      I'd really love to see some good statistics on the risks of speeding on motorways. I often wonder about laws that are ostensibly there to prevent dangerous actions, about whether they actually help prevent dangerous driving. This guy analyses tailgating: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6n_lR09sjoU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6n_lR09sjoU Awesome software although he seems biased (e.g. no mention of pedestrians), but he does say that tailgating is much more dangerous than speeding. I'm interested whether cameras will start to catch dangerous drivers. I regularly seeing drivers do very dangerous things. Yet we have no easy way to train them (for those that care but are unaware), or catch them (for the antisocial that don't care).
mixedbit 11mo ago
With self driving cars population on roads increasing, a side effect can be that all traffic will be shaped towards staying within the speed limits. With more cars staying within the limits, breaking the limits becomes more difficult.
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
boulos 11mo ago
We comply with the posted speed limits. Definitely on 101 near San Francisco where there are 55 mph zones (and maybe even 50 mph?) it's pretty noticeable. But we do hug the right lanes.
wagwang 11mo ago
going the speed limit is actually a good thing, even on the 101
saalweachter 11mo ago
It always blows my mind how aghast some people are at the idea of driving the speed limit. How dangerous they make it sound! My dudes, I have been driving the speed limit, even on freeways, for decades. Nothing bad happens. Your car doesn't explode. You don't instantly create thousand-car pileups. You get passed slightly more often than when you are speeding. You pass fewer cars. You get to your destination a few minutes later. A car going the speed limit on the freeway is not a problem.
- bsder 11mo ago
  > Nothing bad happens. Until it does. The biggest problem in car accidents is speed differential. When you are not driving the prevailing speed, your speed differential is significantly higher and the accident will be worse than average.
  - bigstrat2003 11mo ago
    That is the fault of the person driving faster than the speed limit, not the person driving the speed limit.
    - bsder 11mo ago
      Many people involved in car accidents are dead even though they were in the right. Motorcyclists can give you long lectures about this.
      - RivieraKid 11mo ago
        Driving at the speed limit will not meaningfully increase the chance of an accident.
  - saalweachter 11mo ago
    > The biggest problem in car accidents is speed differential. Yes: it is way more dangerous to slam into a stationary object going 80mph than it is to be rear-ended by an object going 80mph while you're going 65. Only a 15mph differential in the initial collision. Also, it almost never happens, compared to vehicles losing control due to excessive speed.

by s1mon 11mo ago

tintor 11mo ago

[flagged]

embedding-shape 11mo ago
Indeed, and I'm guessing the Waymos have forward facing cameras + know their own speed? Feels like a natural jump to begin automatically reporting cars that are speeding past them to the police, with a camera snapshot of the plate, with everything else censored.
dogman144 11mo ago
Why is that the problem for above the legal speed limit drivers? A slow fleet of Waymo’s will impact your average 5-10 over same as your 20 over, and that’ll collectively impact traffic. The implicit assumption you and many other in tech share is humans must adapt to the tech protocol, and not the other way around. After 20 years of growing negative externalities from this general approach, which I see baked into your comment - are we seriously about to let this occur all over again with a new version of tech? Fool me once, fool me twice… I think we’re at fool me 10 times and do it again in terms of civic trust of tech in its spaces.
- testdummy13 11mo ago
  As long as they don't sit in the passing lane, I don't see how a fleet of vehicles moving at a consistent speed and not driving erratically will have any more negative impact on traffic than a human driver. Like other's have mentioned, it might actually improve traffic as you don't have people speeding up to get close to a person and then quickly slowing down, causing "phantom" traffic jams. Also, if the Waymos are following the laws, and that causes problems... then maybe those laws should be changed? Especially if most drivers already don't follow the laws.
andy99 11mo ago
Sounds like you’ve never driven on a highway. Taking some imaginary moral high ground doesn’t make one any less dangerous.
- bigstrat2003 11mo ago
  There is nothing whatsoever dangerous about driving the speed limit on a highway.
gs17 11mo ago
That's a great way to make them targets for vandalism. I'm in a city they're about to get in to (Nashville), and if the snitch-mobile tattled on everyone (the highways here that are officially 55 are "really" 75 with some exceptions, and going the speed limit can end up being more dangerous), sensors would start getting bullet holes. Of course, unlike the normal car break-ins here, the cops might do something about them.
- IncreasePosts 11mo ago
  How about you just change the speed limits to 75 then
- Yizahi 11mo ago
  Does speed cameras not exist in the USA? If I were to drive 30% faster above the limit regularly, I would go broke over here, across the pond.
  - gs17 11mo ago
    I've never heard of them on highways, but several states ban their use for enforcement in general.
toss1 11mo ago
No, it is not only a problem for "'well above the legal limit' speeding drivers"; it is a problem for you, and the solution requires more thought than the "just follow the rules" that you put into your post. There are many instances where the entire mass of traffic across three or four lanes is 10-20mph above the stated limit, e.g., going 75-85mph in a 66mph posted area. It may not be legal, but it is reality. And when it is everyone, it is not only "aggressive" drivers. It is everyone. And one driver thinking they will change the situation only makes it worse. If you are going 20-30mph below the speed of traffic you are at least as much a hazard to yourself and everyone around you as going 20-30mph above the speed of traffic, and the stated speed limit has nothing to do with it. Going substantially slower than traffic, even in the slow lane with flashers on, nearly all of the threats and actions are overtaking you and coming from behind you, meaning to see and react to most of the developing situations, you must be driving through your rear-view mirrors. And the situation you create can be very deadly, as one car can change lanes to avoid you, revealing you late to the next car, which barely changes lanes, and further reduces time for the next, who hits you and starts the pile-up. It is not only their problem, it is yours too. Sure, you may be legally in the right, but you have still caused yourself to get hit. What my grandfather explained to me is still correct: "You never want to be dead right."

mkinsella 11mo ago

In the few times I’ve seen a Waymo on the freeway in the Bay Area, they have always been in the slow lane and driving 55-65 MPH.

jeffbee 11mo ago

If you watch the videos that insiders have been posting, it never exceeds the speed limits. If you watch the videos more carefully, you will notice the people who speed by at 85 MPH later enter the screen again, because that is the nature of freeway traffic. I predict that a few hundred of these on the road will measurably improve safety and decrease severe congestion by being that one sane driver that defuses stop-and-go catastrophes. In fact I think CHP should just contract with them to pace 101 in waves.

aworks 11mo ago
I was on 101 during evening rush hour, speeding along like everyone. Then I saw brake lights from a Waymo. Later followed by all the surrounding cars. Interesting that it was the first to detect a slowdown.
- potato3732842 11mo ago
  First to apply brake, not first to detect. Normal human drivers tend to lift off the gas and only brake when they decide that just lifting won't do.
  - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
    > Normal human drivers tend to lift off the gas and only brake when they decide that just lifting won't do Don't EVs light up the brake lights when regenerative braking engages?
    - macintux 11mo ago
      As best as I can tell, not universally. I'm rather obsessive about watching brake lights around me; my state doesn't have safety inspections, so I try my best to alert other drivers when they have brake lights out. I've definitely observed Teslas coming to a halt, and the brake lights only kick on at the very end. I don't know how widespread the problem is, but it's very annoying.

cortesoft 11mo ago

Luckily this won't be a problem in Los Angeles, because traffic prevents you from ever going over the speed limit.

nradov 11mo ago
It's hilarious to see people in LA buying sports cars. Like even if you're willing to risk a speeding ticket you won't be able to drive faster than the traffic in front of you. Just a status symbol, I guess.
- btian 11mo ago
  There are many race tracks in LA area.
- kirubakaran 11mo ago
  To the extent that it's rational, it's more about acceleration than velocity
  - djoldman 11mo ago
    It's about acceleration + other things. If the other things didn't matter, they would just drive a Tesla Model S Plaid with 2 second 0-60mph.
- sib 11mo ago
  A sports car on the roads through the Malibu hills is very fun...
  - astrange 11mo ago
    But not as much as knowledge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GIwTG8V-Ko https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GIwTG8V-Ko
- kjkjadksj 11mo ago
  There are car clubs that go on drives in the twisty santa monica mountains and san gabriel mountains.

circuit10 11mo ago

As someone who doesn’t drive but has done a UK theory test - aren’t you supposed to stick to the “slow lane” (no matter how fast you’re going) unless you’re overtaking? And that’s why it’s not actually called the “fast lane” but the “passing lane”. So I don’t see why you would be in the passing lane unless you’re going faster than others anyway. And there are plenty of lorries and coaches (trucks and buses in US terms?) that are physically limited to below the speed limit anyway Though I’ve heard people treat it differently in the US

jjfoooo4 11mo ago
Yes. People do in fact safely drive the speed limit. If "we'll have too many cars on the freeway following the speed limit" ranks as a serious concern, I think we've really lost the plot. I recently drove by a fatal accident that had just happened on the freeway. A man on the street had been ripped in half, and his body was lying on the road. I can't imagine the scene is all that unlike the 40 thousand other US road deaths that happen every year. As a driver I'm willing to accept some minor inconvenience to improve the situation. As a rider I trust Waymo's more than human drivers.
- iteria 11mo ago
  It depends on where you are. There was a protest in in Atlanta about the speed limit. What did they do? They got in every. Single. Lane. As did the speed limit. This backed up traffic for miles. It stopped commercial delivery and had ramifications for entire area. The protesters were arrested. For going the legal limit. The speed limit did not change, but there is a reason why it's never enforced. I've lived in a couple of places where going the speed limit is a whole problem that can cascade outside of just yourself. There is an argument to be made that perhaps then the speed limit shouldn't be that low, but in driving safety is far more important than legality. It will be interesting to see how Waymo handles these realities when it gets to those areas.
  - robocat 11mo ago
    I'd really love to see some good statistics on the risks of speeding on motorways. I often wonder about laws that are ostensibly there to prevent dangerous actions, about whether they actually help prevent dangerous driving. This guy analyses tailgating: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6n_lR09sjoU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6n_lR09sjoU Awesome software although he seems biased (e.g. no mention of pedestrians), but he does say that tailgating is much more dangerous than speeding. I'm interested whether cameras will start to catch dangerous drivers. I regularly seeing drivers do very dangerous things. Yet we have no easy way to train them (for those that care but are unaware), or catch them (for the antisocial that don't care).

mixedbit 11mo ago

With self driving cars population on roads increasing, a side effect can be that all traffic will be shaped towards staying within the speed limits. With more cars staying within the limits, breaking the limits becomes more difficult.

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

boulos 11mo ago

We comply with the posted speed limits. Definitely on 101 near San Francisco where there are 55 mph zones (and maybe even 50 mph?) it's pretty noticeable. But we do hug the right lanes.

wagwang 11mo ago

going the speed limit is actually a good thing, even on the 101

saalweachter 11mo ago

It always blows my mind how aghast some people are at the idea of driving the speed limit. How dangerous they make it sound! My dudes, I have been driving the speed limit, even on freeways, for decades. Nothing bad happens. Your car doesn't explode. You don't instantly create thousand-car pileups. You get passed slightly more often than when you are speeding. You pass fewer cars. You get to your destination a few minutes later. A car going the speed limit on the freeway is not a problem.

bsder 11mo ago
> Nothing bad happens. Until it does. The biggest problem in car accidents is speed differential. When you are not driving the prevailing speed, your speed differential is significantly higher and the accident will be worse than average.
- bigstrat2003 11mo ago
  That is the fault of the person driving faster than the speed limit, not the person driving the speed limit.
  - bsder 11mo ago
    Many people involved in car accidents are dead even though they were in the right. Motorcyclists can give you long lectures about this.
    - RivieraKid 11mo ago
      Driving at the speed limit will not meaningfully increase the chance of an accident.
- saalweachter 11mo ago
  > The biggest problem in car accidents is speed differential. Yes: it is way more dangerous to slam into a stationary object going 80mph than it is to be rear-ended by an object going 80mph while you're going 65. Only a 15mph differential in the initial collision. Also, it almost never happens, compared to vehicles losing control due to excessive speed.