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You don’t. I have never grinded leet code and never will. I have personally ended interviews where they tried to get me to do these. Not worth my time. Any

You don’t. I have never grinded leet code and never will. I have personally ended interviews where they tried to get me to do these. Not worth my time. Any company that wants me to regurgitate toy problems that don’t have any relevance to the role is not one Im willing to bother working for. I fee like if you’re “grinding” the goal is to memorize the solutions, which is kinda defeating the purpose anyway.

notepad0x90 11mo ago
For the sake of argument: What if they have multiple candidates and they want to know which ones can solve problems better with code instead of hiring by vibes.
- AnimalMuppet 11mo ago
  Even so, why see which ones can solve problems that aren't the problems that the job actually calls for solving? I mean, if you're Google, and a small improvement in algorithmic efficiency means needing a thousand less servers, yes, you want people who know that kind of stuff like the back of their hand. Most places aren't Google, though. Places that interview like Google that don't have Google-like problems have a mis-fit between their interview process and the roles they are interviewing for. So, places that aren't really on top of what they're doing as an organization.
  - notepad0x90 11mo ago
    Let's assume all the other candidates can get the job done, the problems that need solving can be solved by most competent programmers. They want to know if you can solve problems they haven't even thought of at that point. Salaried employment is not the same as a contract with specific scope of work.
    - AnimalMuppet 11mo ago
      > Let's assume all the other candidates can get the job done Let's not assume that. There are places that have trouble finding people that can code at all.
      - notepad0x90 11mo ago
        Those places don't use leetcode.
        AnimalMuppet 11mo ago
        Another assumption? Or a claim? If it's a claim, I don't think it's as true as you do. You made the claim, so you have the burden of proof. And if it's just an assumption, well, I don't assume that either...
- theoldgreybeard 11mo ago
  The topic is leetcode. I've written code during interviews and in reasonable takehomes before. If your choice of candidate is boiling down to fizzbuzz I'm not interested.
  - notepad0x90 11mo ago
    I can respect that, you must have enough talent and experience to allow to pick and choose opportunities. The job market is rough these days and for most, they need to eat and pay bills.
- JonChesterfield 11mo ago
  Look at the code those people have put into production instead. Or accept that you're filtering for pain tolerance of nonsense and the people you get will put up with grindy nonsense in your company. Which could be a blessing or lethal, depending on what you're doing.
- jimbomins 11mo ago
  It strikes me that software has become a bit like law and accounting used to be. "We had to suffer and so must you". Making it pointlessly hard to keep people out. Rather than dealing with people on real problems. I'm currently getting interviews. For work that I know from having done it for twenty years that coding is only a small subset of. But the emphasis is far more on coding than application of experience gained to overcoming similar problems quicker the second, third or fourth times I'd be working them. It's sad. I'll certainly just say no to leetcode for the kind of engineering I'm looking for. Rather go do some (paid) gardening.
AnimalMuppet 11mo ago
This. Seriously. In a world with both Google and AI, why does anyone expect you to memorize the solutions to problems, especially to problems that won't actually be the ones you need to solve on the job? But I wonder if, in order to get a job with the "just say no" approach, you need to leave the Bay Area. I wonder if most places there are so into the "that's the way it's done" that they can't see the absurdity of it. Other places in the country don't seem to be as infatuated with leetcode. But if you're determined to stay there, then it may be a search to find someone who doesn't use that standard for interviewing. So you have a choice. Would you rather grind leetcode, or would you rather grind the job search for a place that doesn't interview that way? (I had decent success with Robert Half. They're a recruiter that actually has a clue about tech people. They can work with more senior people, which 10 years qualifies you as. I forget whether they were the ones that led to my most recent role, but I remember being impressed with them as headhunters. They may be worth a shot in your situation.)
- JustExAWS 11mo ago
  Let’s not pretend that the companies that Robert Half recruits for is near the same league of compensation of the companies that require leetCode. Yes I realize those are the types of jobs most developers had - and the same types of jobs I had from 1096-2020.
pan69 11mo ago
I agree. But it also depends on the role you're hiring. When I hire grads or juniors onto my team I will focus a lot more on leetcode style problems because a) they don't have much work experience so delving into real-world problems they have solved is typically not useful (exceptions there) and b) leetcode is usually closer to their recent experience which tends to be more academic in nature. More senior roles typically have very different requirements. I don't need a staff or principal engineer to pass a leetcode test as it typically isn't relevant to that role. I respect their lived experience so I dive into real world problems they have solved, not just software but also people, culture, etc.
whatamidoingyo 11mo ago
Agreed. I have done some in the past, did well, but still didn't get hired. Nowadays, I flat out tell companies upfront I'm not doing them. Two companies still hired me after telling them this. I don't think it would work for juniors, though.
hshdhdhj4444 11mo ago
When was the last time you interviewed? Because the job market is very different today.
JustExAWS 11mo ago
Well, that’s a fine ideal and I agree with you. But let’s not pretend that with your ideal you aren’t leaving money on the table. I can afford to leave that money on the table at 51, grown kids, downsized to a condo in central Florida with just me and my wife. But in my case, it’s not even a trade off between not grinding leetcode and not getting (back) into BigTech. It’s just that I refuse to ever work in an office again. The “goal” is to make a lot of money in cash + RSUs (public BigTech), if I were younger I would definitely do it and I encourage all new grads to do whatever it takes to get into a high paying tech company and then give them advice on how to play the game once they are there.
roland35 11mo ago
Leetcode stinks but you are really filtering out a lot of high paying jobs if you refuse to do it

notepad0x90 11mo ago

For the sake of argument: What if they have multiple candidates and they want to know which ones can solve problems better with code instead of hiring by vibes.

AnimalMuppet 11mo ago
Even so, why see which ones can solve problems that aren't the problems that the job actually calls for solving? I mean, if you're Google, and a small improvement in algorithmic efficiency means needing a thousand less servers, yes, you want people who know that kind of stuff like the back of their hand. Most places aren't Google, though. Places that interview like Google that don't have Google-like problems have a mis-fit between their interview process and the roles they are interviewing for. So, places that aren't really on top of what they're doing as an organization.
- notepad0x90 11mo ago
  Let's assume all the other candidates can get the job done, the problems that need solving can be solved by most competent programmers. They want to know if you can solve problems they haven't even thought of at that point. Salaried employment is not the same as a contract with specific scope of work.
  - AnimalMuppet 11mo ago
    > Let's assume all the other candidates can get the job done Let's not assume that. There are places that have trouble finding people that can code at all.
    - notepad0x90 11mo ago
      Those places don't use leetcode.
      - AnimalMuppet 11mo ago
        Another assumption? Or a claim? If it's a claim, I don't think it's as true as you do. You made the claim, so you have the burden of proof. And if it's just an assumption, well, I don't assume that either...
theoldgreybeard 11mo ago
The topic is leetcode. I've written code during interviews and in reasonable takehomes before. If your choice of candidate is boiling down to fizzbuzz I'm not interested.
- notepad0x90 11mo ago
  I can respect that, you must have enough talent and experience to allow to pick and choose opportunities. The job market is rough these days and for most, they need to eat and pay bills.
JonChesterfield 11mo ago
Look at the code those people have put into production instead. Or accept that you're filtering for pain tolerance of nonsense and the people you get will put up with grindy nonsense in your company. Which could be a blessing or lethal, depending on what you're doing.
jimbomins 11mo ago
It strikes me that software has become a bit like law and accounting used to be. "We had to suffer and so must you". Making it pointlessly hard to keep people out. Rather than dealing with people on real problems. I'm currently getting interviews. For work that I know from having done it for twenty years that coding is only a small subset of. But the emphasis is far more on coding than application of experience gained to overcoming similar problems quicker the second, third or fourth times I'd be working them. It's sad. I'll certainly just say no to leetcode for the kind of engineering I'm looking for. Rather go do some (paid) gardening.

AnimalMuppet 11mo ago

This. Seriously. In a world with both Google and AI, why does anyone expect you to memorize the solutions to problems, especially to problems that won't actually be the ones you need to solve on the job? But I wonder if, in order to get a job with the "just say no" approach, you need to leave the Bay Area. I wonder if most places there are so into the "that's the way it's done" that they can't see the absurdity of it. Other places in the country don't seem to be as infatuated with leetcode. But if you're determined to stay there, then it may be a search to find someone who doesn't use that standard for interviewing. So you have a choice. Would you rather grind leetcode, or would you rather grind the job search for a place that doesn't interview that way? (I had decent success with Robert Half. They're a recruiter that actually has a clue about tech people. They can work with more senior people, which 10 years qualifies you as. I forget whether they were the ones that led to my most recent role, but I remember being impressed with them as headhunters. They may be worth a shot in your situation.)

JustExAWS 11mo ago
Let’s not pretend that the companies that Robert Half recruits for is near the same league of compensation of the companies that require leetCode. Yes I realize those are the types of jobs most developers had - and the same types of jobs I had from 1096-2020.

pan69 11mo ago

I agree. But it also depends on the role you're hiring. When I hire grads or juniors onto my team I will focus a lot more on leetcode style problems because a) they don't have much work experience so delving into real-world problems they have solved is typically not useful (exceptions there) and b) leetcode is usually closer to their recent experience which tends to be more academic in nature. More senior roles typically have very different requirements. I don't need a staff or principal engineer to pass a leetcode test as it typically isn't relevant to that role. I respect their lived experience so I dive into real world problems they have solved, not just software but also people, culture, etc.

whatamidoingyo 11mo ago

Agreed. I have done some in the past, did well, but still didn't get hired. Nowadays, I flat out tell companies upfront I'm not doing them. Two companies still hired me after telling them this. I don't think it would work for juniors, though.

hshdhdhj4444 11mo ago

When was the last time you interviewed? Because the job market is very different today.

JustExAWS 11mo ago

Well, that’s a fine ideal and I agree with you. But let’s not pretend that with your ideal you aren’t leaving money on the table. I can afford to leave that money on the table at 51, grown kids, downsized to a condo in central Florida with just me and my wife. But in my case, it’s not even a trade off between not grinding leetcode and not getting (back) into BigTech. It’s just that I refuse to ever work in an office again. The “goal” is to make a lot of money in cash + RSUs (public BigTech), if I were younger I would definitely do it and I encourage all new grads to do whatever it takes to get into a high paying tech company and then give them advice on how to play the game once they are there.

roland35 11mo ago

Leetcode stinks but you are really filtering out a lot of high paying jobs if you refuse to do it