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Windows is not really just a gaming OS, at least after WSL was launched. Development experience using Windows Terminal + WSL has been pretty great when I did it

Windows is not really just a gaming OS, at least after WSL was launched. Development experience using Windows Terminal + WSL has been pretty great when I did it 3 years ago - I can only imagine it being better today. Also note that the cost of Windows machines is half the price of their Mac counterparts, even with the specs doubled. For many folks Windows is an all-round multipurpose platform (gaming included) and they wouldn't want to invest in other machines just for doing development work, so they stick to it as their main OS. Yes we know of the horrible bloat, tracking and privacy invasion that the OS does to us, but many people tend to just ignore it and move on.

yoyohello13 11mo ago
Yeah My company requires Windows. windows Terminal + WSL at least makes development bearable.
- eptcyka 11mo ago
  Why not run Windows in a VM?
  - jwatte 11mo ago
    Or run a VM in Windows? Hyper-V is pretty decent for many use cases.
skrebbel 11mo ago
You’re right but you’re responding to a troll.
thewebguyd 11mo ago
> Yes we know of the horrible bloat, tracking and privacy invasion that the OS does to us, but many people tend to just ignore it and move on. Or in the case of enterprises, Windows gets controlled and managed by a (hopefully) competent IT team or enterprise desktop group, and with LTSC versions Microsofts give them the tools to strip the bloat, tracking, and most of the privacy invasions (to then be replaced with corporate privacy invasions in a lot of cases). Point being, Windows as an enterprise user desktop is a whole different beast from Windows on the laptop mom and dad just bought from Best Buy. HN lives in a macOS/Linux bubble, but outside of SV it's a Windows world still. So much of the world runs on Windows in places that you wouldn't even expect to see Windows. And with enterprise purchasing agreements, you can get some good deals on bulk laptop purchases that you aren't getting from Apple. $1,000 or less per 32GB of RAM laptop, depending on how many you are buying. I've seen bulk purchases as low as $700/laptop for enterprises that buy thousands at a time for scheduled refreshes. You're not going to be able to buy everyone a MacBook Pro for that pricing. Windows remains one of the best general purpose OSes for generic office worker productivity, and I don't see that changing anytime soon unless Microsoft really fucks it up with whatever Copilot garbage they are doing.
- jiggawatts 11mo ago
  > LTSC versions Microsoft consultants very actively discourage the use of LTSC for... "reasons". Translation: "It hurts our KPIs if our telemetry starts falling off and we can't push Minecraft and AI updates to as many desktops at will!"
  - gruez 11mo ago
    The quite sensible reason is that LTSC doesn't contain the windows store, and as a result a bunch of driver apps don't work because they moved to using UWP apps (eg. realtek audio console). Not to mention that you'll eventually get weird compatibility issues because you'll eventually be running a windows version 5-10 years old, whereas most devs assume you're using be using the normal versions which are at most 2 years out of date. All of these issues can be worked around if you're sufficiently technically inclined, but people who are hiring "Microsoft consultants" probably aren't.
    - 1718627440 11mo ago
      But you can install it?
      - gruez 11mo ago
        >All of these issues can be worked around [...]
    - jiggawatts 11mo ago
      I recommend LTSC for terminal services environments like Azure Virtual Desktop, where driver issues just aren’t a problem. Windows LTSC has semi annual updates, the same as Windows Server. Speaking of which, that’s essentially what it is: a cut-down version of the Server Desktop Experience with pretty much the same defaults and capabilities. Microsoft could implement App Store support for LTSC (and Served), they simply choose not to. It’s telling that this isn’t a problem in practice.
      - 11mo ago
pinkgolem 11mo ago
>Also note that the cost of Windows machines is half the price of their Mac counterparts, even with the specs doubled. Bullshit, MacBooks are one of the cheaper options for usable devices today. Esp in there entry segment.
- chrisweekly 11mo ago
  Yeah. An M4 macbook air is about a grand.
  - thewebguyd 11mo ago
    Now spec it with 32GB of RAM, and try to get a bulk discount for ordering 1,000 of them. Try to get the price of said 32GB M4 Airs down to ~$700/laptop or less. Not going to happen with Apple. No company that's big enough is paying sticker price for windows laptops.
    - princevegeta89 11mo ago
``` Now spec it with 32GB of RAM, and try to get a bulk discount for ordering 1,000 of them. Try to get the price of said 32GB M4 Airs down to ~$700/laptop or less. Not going to happen with Apple. ``` Exactly. Thanks for explaining this. Also one more point to note is Windows machines go on discount sales very frequently. It's usually way too easy to find one with 32GB and 1TB, with the latest Ryzen or Intel mobile processors. Bonus when you find one like Lenovo Legion which allows you to buy and shove-in extra RAM/storage as you need them.
- pinkgolem 11mo ago
  Is ram and SSD and CPU all you care about? I mean yeah, you will get a PC a bit cheaper.. But then you just ignored everything else, build quality, webcam, speakers, sound, SSD speed, keyboard, battery runtime, screen quality.. With business line for comparable build quality/durability you are not getting half price anymore, and I have not yet seen any laptop speaker/webcam not on a MacBook with comparable quality. I do not have access to bulk discounts, but you are more then invited to post some samples.
Night_Thastus 11mo ago
We use WSL for development where I work. Sadly, the one problem with WSL(g) is graphical rendering. It can't handle DPI scaling properly at all (yes, even with experimental settings) and the result is blurriness, gigantic mouse cursor, clicks not registered where the cursor appears to be, or itty-bitty icons and UI that you can barely see. I can't stand that they haven't fixed it in all this time.
- flatline 11mo ago
  It has gotten better. The `vmmem` hyper-v process would regularly freeze up and require a reboot on my Windows 10 work laptop. I’ve successfully run WSL for days/weeks without issue on Windows 11. As a tradeoff, I’ve had the Weston container freeze up and be unrecoverable without restarting WSL.

yoyohello13 11mo ago

Yeah My company requires Windows. windows Terminal + WSL at least makes development bearable.

eptcyka 11mo ago
Why not run Windows in a VM?
- jwatte 11mo ago
  Or run a VM in Windows? Hyper-V is pretty decent for many use cases.

skrebbel 11mo ago

You’re right but you’re responding to a troll.

thewebguyd 11mo ago

> Yes we know of the horrible bloat, tracking and privacy invasion that the OS does to us, but many people tend to just ignore it and move on. Or in the case of enterprises, Windows gets controlled and managed by a (hopefully) competent IT team or enterprise desktop group, and with LTSC versions Microsofts give them the tools to strip the bloat, tracking, and most of the privacy invasions (to then be replaced with corporate privacy invasions in a lot of cases). Point being, Windows as an enterprise user desktop is a whole different beast from Windows on the laptop mom and dad just bought from Best Buy. HN lives in a macOS/Linux bubble, but outside of SV it's a Windows world still. So much of the world runs on Windows in places that you wouldn't even expect to see Windows. And with enterprise purchasing agreements, you can get some good deals on bulk laptop purchases that you aren't getting from Apple. $1,000 or less per 32GB of RAM laptop, depending on how many you are buying. I've seen bulk purchases as low as $700/laptop for enterprises that buy thousands at a time for scheduled refreshes. You're not going to be able to buy everyone a MacBook Pro for that pricing. Windows remains one of the best general purpose OSes for generic office worker productivity, and I don't see that changing anytime soon unless Microsoft really fucks it up with whatever Copilot garbage they are doing.

jiggawatts 11mo ago
> LTSC versions Microsoft consultants very actively discourage the use of LTSC for... "reasons". Translation: "It hurts our KPIs if our telemetry starts falling off and we can't push Minecraft and AI updates to as many desktops at will!"
- gruez 11mo ago
  The quite sensible reason is that LTSC doesn't contain the windows store, and as a result a bunch of driver apps don't work because they moved to using UWP apps (eg. realtek audio console). Not to mention that you'll eventually get weird compatibility issues because you'll eventually be running a windows version 5-10 years old, whereas most devs assume you're using be using the normal versions which are at most 2 years out of date. All of these issues can be worked around if you're sufficiently technically inclined, but people who are hiring "Microsoft consultants" probably aren't.
  - 1718627440 11mo ago
    But you can install it?
    - gruez 11mo ago
      >All of these issues can be worked around [...]
  - jiggawatts 11mo ago
    I recommend LTSC for terminal services environments like Azure Virtual Desktop, where driver issues just aren’t a problem. Windows LTSC has semi annual updates, the same as Windows Server. Speaking of which, that’s essentially what it is: a cut-down version of the Server Desktop Experience with pretty much the same defaults and capabilities. Microsoft could implement App Store support for LTSC (and Served), they simply choose not to. It’s telling that this isn’t a problem in practice.
    - 11mo ago

pinkgolem 11mo ago

>Also note that the cost of Windows machines is half the price of their Mac counterparts, even with the specs doubled. Bullshit, MacBooks are one of the cheaper options for usable devices today. Esp in there entry segment.

chrisweekly 11mo ago
Yeah. An M4 macbook air is about a grand.
- thewebguyd 11mo ago
  Now spec it with 32GB of RAM, and try to get a bulk discount for ordering 1,000 of them. Try to get the price of said 32GB M4 Airs down to ~$700/laptop or less. Not going to happen with Apple. No company that's big enough is paying sticker price for windows laptops.
  - princevegeta89 11mo ago
``` Now spec it with 32GB of RAM, and try to get a bulk discount for ordering 1,000 of them. Try to get the price of said 32GB M4 Airs down to ~$700/laptop or less. Not going to happen with Apple. ``` Exactly. Thanks for explaining this. Also one more point to note is Windows machines go on discount sales very frequently. It's usually way too easy to find one with 32GB and 1TB, with the latest Ryzen or Intel mobile processors. Bonus when you find one like Lenovo Legion which allows you to buy and shove-in extra RAM/storage as you need them.
- pinkgolem 11mo ago
  Is ram and SSD and CPU all you care about? I mean yeah, you will get a PC a bit cheaper.. But then you just ignored everything else, build quality, webcam, speakers, sound, SSD speed, keyboard, battery runtime, screen quality.. With business line for comparable build quality/durability you are not getting half price anymore, and I have not yet seen any laptop speaker/webcam not on a MacBook with comparable quality. I do not have access to bulk discounts, but you are more then invited to post some samples.

Night_Thastus 11mo ago

We use WSL for development where I work. Sadly, the one problem with WSL(g) is graphical rendering. It can't handle DPI scaling properly at all (yes, even with experimental settings) and the result is blurriness, gigantic mouse cursor, clicks not registered where the cursor appears to be, or itty-bitty icons and UI that you can barely see. I can't stand that they haven't fixed it in all this time.

flatline 11mo ago
It has gotten better. The `vmmem` hyper-v process would regularly freeze up and require a reboot on my Windows 10 work laptop. I’ve successfully run WSL for days/weeks without issue on Windows 11. As a tradeoff, I’ve had the Weston container freeze up and be unrecoverable without restarting WSL.