7 ms·

Terminal Latency on Windows (2024)

113 points by bariumbitmap 11mo ago

deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
CamperBob2 11mo ago
Does it still pause scrolling and stop whatever's running if you click on the window or press a key? That's one big reason why I still live in a plain old DOS box. It didn't appear that the Windows terminal developers had ever heard of ctrl-s.
- hobs 11mo ago
  That's called QuickEdit Mode and you have been able to turn that off for decades (and installing the new terminal fixes that too.) Otherwise click the top left icon, go to settings, uncheck QuickEdit.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
- alexchantavy 11mo ago
  Dang, I've never heard of anyone who actually _wanted_ that behavior haha, I've had so much wasted time in school projects where I thought something was running but it wasn't because I had selected text in cmd.exe haha.
  - 1718627440 11mo ago
    It stops running? I thought it just stops the output.
    - shigawire 11mo ago
      If you are waiting for the output as an indication that a task completed and you never see that output you may think the task is still running but it is actually done. Has happened to me quite a few times.
    - larkost 11mo ago
      I am not sure that if it actually stops the program, but it does at least stop programs from printing, so for anything that gives feedback on stderr/stdout you are at least pausing the main thread. I have a mostly-non-threaded program that this happens to, and it does not continue to send messages to other systems until I un-pause it.
      - jwatte 11mo ago
        Ctrl-Z suspends the program in most UNIX shells. ("fg" to resume) Ctrl-S may or may not end up stopping the program, depending on how much it's printing, and how much output buffering there is before it blocks on writing more.
- jwatte 11mo ago
  All my shell RCs turn off xon/xoff -- that's a relic from the PDP-11 days we can all do without. Windows has the Scroll Lock button that's supposed to do this if you need it, but typically, just selecting a character in a terminal emulator will stop the scroll while still buffering the output.
thermalmotion 11mo ago
Any chance of getting native support for Serial (DB9/RS232) communication in Windows Terminal? Would love to use it but I'm still using PuTTY and HyperTerminal.
- digitalDM 11mo ago
  I recommend Tera term. https://github.com/TeraTermProject/teraterm/releases https://github.com/TeraTermProject/teraterm/releases
  - opello 11mo ago
    As much as I like PuTTY the ergonomics for "monitor this port as I plug/unplug the USB-to-Serial adapter" are so much better in TeraTerm.
- GeorgeTirebiter 11mo ago
  Is there something lacking in PuTTY ?
  - zamadatix 11mo ago
    The PuTTY terminal has a few more features in certain areas but a lot fewer features overall. Also, of course, PuTTY does not share profiles/settings/window tabs+panes with WT, which is a bit of a pain.
- zamadatix 11mo ago
  I think it has been discussed but not implemented yet. In the meantime, tools like https://github.com/fasteddy516/SimplySerial https://github.com/fasteddy516/SimplySerial give what you are looking for instead of those alternative GUI tools.
- jcgl 11mo ago
  Is there not a suitable CLI or TUI client for Windows that can simply be called from within Windows Terminal? Honest question. I just know that on Linux, it'd be really weird to ask for my terminal emulator to embed a serial client rather than call e.g. screen or minicom from my shell.
PKop 11mo ago
(2024)
0x1ch 11mo ago
Another aspect of this is which pipeline is in use for the GPU accelerated terminals. *WezTerm on Windows for example, specific rendering issues occur with default NVIDIA settings related to DXGI. You will never interact with this pipeline if using the Web GPU vulkan renderer, which has its own issues. I personally experience some form of memory leak / latency when working in terminals that have been open for a 'good' amount of time.
semiinfinitely 11mo ago
[flagged]
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- princevegeta89 11mo ago
  Windows is not really just a gaming OS, at least after WSL was launched. Development experience using Windows Terminal + WSL has been pretty great when I did it 3 years ago - I can only imagine it being better today. Also note that the cost of Windows machines is half the price of their Mac counterparts, even with the specs doubled. For many folks Windows is an all-round multipurpose platform (gaming included) and they wouldn't want to invest in other machines just for doing development work, so they stick to it as their main OS. Yes we know of the horrible bloat, tracking and privacy invasion that the OS does to us, but many people tend to just ignore it and move on.
  - yoyohello13 11mo ago
    Yeah My company requires Windows. windows Terminal + WSL at least makes development bearable.
    - eptcyka 11mo ago
      Why not run Windows in a VM?
      - jwatte 11mo ago
        Or run a VM in Windows? Hyper-V is pretty decent for many use cases.
  - skrebbel 11mo ago
    You’re right but you’re responding to a troll.
  - thewebguyd 11mo ago
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
zadjii 11mo ago
Notably this article was written based on Windows Terminal 1.18. That was before WT 1.22, which included this PR: [^1] which roughly doubled the terminal's throughput. That combined with a couple of other PRs in 1.22 made some scenarios up to _16x_ faster[^2] [^1]: https://github.com/microsoft/terminal/pull/17510 https://github.com/microsoft/terminal/pull/17510 [^2]: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/windows-terminal-preview-1-22-release/#new-hosting-subsystem https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/windows-terminal-...
- zamadatix 11mo ago
  Thanks for the work on WT, it was really a massive step up I did not expect after all of these years.
  - zadjii 11mo ago
    You're most welcome! Working on it to help serve the whole developer ecosystem has been the delight of my career :)
    - typpilol 11mo ago
      Just want to say built in glyphs makes terminal ANSI art awesome. I forked a colorscripts project and added some true ANSI art after conversion and the built in glyphs look so much better than any other font. It's great but is there any special rendering for the built in glyphs that's not possible with fonts? Just curious
bluedino 11mo ago
Any similar benchmarks for MacOS? I daily drive a couple Macs and enjoy them but I can't help but notice they seem slower in the terminal than the alternatives. Can't get any kind of discussion on /r/mac as it's just 'Apple silicon is fast!'
- matternous 11mo ago
  This has been posted on HN a few times and seems to show that terminal.app is your best bet for most cases if you care about latency: https://danluu.com/term-latency/ https://danluu.com/term-latency/
  - Aurornis 11mo ago
    This was a great article when it came out, but it’s very outdated. The laptop used is over 10 years old now.
  - beanjuiceII 11mo ago
    seems like outdated info
  - worthless-trash 11mo ago
    Terminal app has no truecolor support, no highres mouse support, no kitty graphics protocol, no double height character support, i'm sure there is more but I now discard it from my tests.
- thewebguyd 11mo ago
  You can run the tests yourself, he describes them in the blog. Used the Is It Snappy! app to measure frames. I tried the throughput test myself just now between the native macOS terminal and ghostty. Ghostty: cat /tmp/lines.txt 0.00s user 0.02s system 36% cpu 0.069 total Native mac terminal: cat /tmp/lines.txt 0.00s user 0.02s system 18% cpu 0.115 total Seems much faster than any of the OP's windows terminals tested except for MinTTY. Likewise in one unscientific test with Is It Snappy, ghostty took 8 frames to render the output from pressing the key, but I didn't repeat multiple times. So, seems faster, but I know what you are talking about, I experience it too. Something about using the terminal on macOS feels sluggish compared to alternatives. It's especially noticeable for me over SSH
randomtoast 11mo ago
In case you want to compare the latency on Linux: https://beuke.org/terminal-latency/ https://beuke.org/terminal-latency/
zonovar 11mo ago
Not really on 'latency' per se as discussed in the articole but an interesting take on slow terminals is Casey Muratori's famous rant on the topic [0] that led him to write his own terminal [1], a reference renderer for monospace terminal displays that is several orders of magnitude faster than Windows Terminal despite being largely unoptimized. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxM8QmyZXtg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxM8QmyZXtg [1] https://github.com/cmuratori/refterm https://github.com/cmuratori/refterm
Cold_Miserable 11mo ago
Is there a simple way to get the "Legacy Console" back without having to format and reinstall windows? Installing packages / the windows modules installer is broken.

113 points by bariumbitmap 11mo ago

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

Does it still pause scrolling and stop whatever's running if you click on the window or press a key? That's one big reason why I still live in a plain old DOS box. It didn't appear that the Windows terminal developers had ever heard of ctrl-s.

hobs 11mo ago
That's called QuickEdit Mode and you have been able to turn that off for decades (and installing the new terminal fixes that too.) Otherwise click the top left icon, go to settings, uncheck QuickEdit.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
alexchantavy 11mo ago
Dang, I've never heard of anyone who actually _wanted_ that behavior haha, I've had so much wasted time in school projects where I thought something was running but it wasn't because I had selected text in cmd.exe haha.
- 1718627440 11mo ago
  It stops running? I thought it just stops the output.
  - shigawire 11mo ago
    If you are waiting for the output as an indication that a task completed and you never see that output you may think the task is still running but it is actually done. Has happened to me quite a few times.
  - larkost 11mo ago
    I am not sure that if it actually stops the program, but it does at least stop programs from printing, so for anything that gives feedback on stderr/stdout you are at least pausing the main thread. I have a mostly-non-threaded program that this happens to, and it does not continue to send messages to other systems until I un-pause it.
    - jwatte 11mo ago
      Ctrl-Z suspends the program in most UNIX shells. ("fg" to resume) Ctrl-S may or may not end up stopping the program, depending on how much it's printing, and how much output buffering there is before it blocks on writing more.
jwatte 11mo ago
All my shell RCs turn off xon/xoff -- that's a relic from the PDP-11 days we can all do without. Windows has the Scroll Lock button that's supposed to do this if you need it, but typically, just selecting a character in a terminal emulator will stop the scroll while still buffering the output.

thermalmotion 11mo ago

Any chance of getting native support for Serial (DB9/RS232) communication in Windows Terminal? Would love to use it but I'm still using PuTTY and HyperTerminal.

digitalDM 11mo ago
I recommend Tera term. https://github.com/TeraTermProject/teraterm/releases https://github.com/TeraTermProject/teraterm/releases
- opello 11mo ago
  As much as I like PuTTY the ergonomics for "monitor this port as I plug/unplug the USB-to-Serial adapter" are so much better in TeraTerm.
GeorgeTirebiter 11mo ago
Is there something lacking in PuTTY ?
- zamadatix 11mo ago
  The PuTTY terminal has a few more features in certain areas but a lot fewer features overall. Also, of course, PuTTY does not share profiles/settings/window tabs+panes with WT, which is a bit of a pain.
zamadatix 11mo ago
I think it has been discussed but not implemented yet. In the meantime, tools like https://github.com/fasteddy516/SimplySerial https://github.com/fasteddy516/SimplySerial give what you are looking for instead of those alternative GUI tools.
jcgl 11mo ago
Is there not a suitable CLI or TUI client for Windows that can simply be called from within Windows Terminal? Honest question. I just know that on Linux, it'd be really weird to ask for my terminal emulator to embed a serial client rather than call e.g. screen or minicom from my shell.

PKop 11mo ago

(2024)

0x1ch 11mo ago

Another aspect of this is which pipeline is in use for the GPU accelerated terminals. *WezTerm on Windows for example, specific rendering issues occur with default NVIDIA settings related to DXGI. You will never interact with this pipeline if using the Web GPU vulkan renderer, which has its own issues. I personally experience some form of memory leak / latency when working in terminals that have been open for a 'good' amount of time.

semiinfinitely 11mo ago

[flagged]

deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
princevegeta89 11mo ago
Windows is not really just a gaming OS, at least after WSL was launched. Development experience using Windows Terminal + WSL has been pretty great when I did it 3 years ago - I can only imagine it being better today. Also note that the cost of Windows machines is half the price of their Mac counterparts, even with the specs doubled. For many folks Windows is an all-round multipurpose platform (gaming included) and they wouldn't want to invest in other machines just for doing development work, so they stick to it as their main OS. Yes we know of the horrible bloat, tracking and privacy invasion that the OS does to us, but many people tend to just ignore it and move on.
- yoyohello13 11mo ago
  Yeah My company requires Windows. windows Terminal + WSL at least makes development bearable.
  - eptcyka 11mo ago
    Why not run Windows in a VM?
    - jwatte 11mo ago
      Or run a VM in Windows? Hyper-V is pretty decent for many use cases.
- skrebbel 11mo ago
  You’re right but you’re responding to a troll.
- thewebguyd 11mo ago

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

zadjii 11mo ago

Notably this article was written based on Windows Terminal 1.18. That was before WT 1.22, which included this PR: [^1] which roughly doubled the terminal's throughput. That combined with a couple of other PRs in 1.22 made some scenarios up to _16x_ faster[^2] [^1]: https://github.com/microsoft/terminal/pull/17510 https://github.com/microsoft/terminal/pull/17510 [^2]: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/windows-terminal-preview-1-22-release/#new-hosting-subsystem https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/windows-terminal-...

zamadatix 11mo ago
Thanks for the work on WT, it was really a massive step up I did not expect after all of these years.
- zadjii 11mo ago
  You're most welcome! Working on it to help serve the whole developer ecosystem has been the delight of my career :)
  - typpilol 11mo ago
    Just want to say built in glyphs makes terminal ANSI art awesome. I forked a colorscripts project and added some true ANSI art after conversion and the built in glyphs look so much better than any other font. It's great but is there any special rendering for the built in glyphs that's not possible with fonts? Just curious

bluedino 11mo ago

Any similar benchmarks for MacOS? I daily drive a couple Macs and enjoy them but I can't help but notice they seem slower in the terminal than the alternatives. Can't get any kind of discussion on /r/mac as it's just 'Apple silicon is fast!'

matternous 11mo ago
This has been posted on HN a few times and seems to show that terminal.app is your best bet for most cases if you care about latency: https://danluu.com/term-latency/ https://danluu.com/term-latency/
- Aurornis 11mo ago
  This was a great article when it came out, but it’s very outdated. The laptop used is over 10 years old now.
- beanjuiceII 11mo ago
  seems like outdated info
- worthless-trash 11mo ago
  Terminal app has no truecolor support, no highres mouse support, no kitty graphics protocol, no double height character support, i'm sure there is more but I now discard it from my tests.
thewebguyd 11mo ago
You can run the tests yourself, he describes them in the blog. Used the Is It Snappy! app to measure frames. I tried the throughput test myself just now between the native macOS terminal and ghostty. Ghostty: cat /tmp/lines.txt 0.00s user 0.02s system 36% cpu 0.069 total Native mac terminal: cat /tmp/lines.txt 0.00s user 0.02s system 18% cpu 0.115 total Seems much faster than any of the OP's windows terminals tested except for MinTTY. Likewise in one unscientific test with Is It Snappy, ghostty took 8 frames to render the output from pressing the key, but I didn't repeat multiple times. So, seems faster, but I know what you are talking about, I experience it too. Something about using the terminal on macOS feels sluggish compared to alternatives. It's especially noticeable for me over SSH

randomtoast 11mo ago

In case you want to compare the latency on Linux: https://beuke.org/terminal-latency/ https://beuke.org/terminal-latency/

zonovar 11mo ago

Not really on 'latency' per se as discussed in the articole but an interesting take on slow terminals is Casey Muratori's famous rant on the topic [0] that led him to write his own terminal [1], a reference renderer for monospace terminal displays that is several orders of magnitude faster than Windows Terminal despite being largely unoptimized. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxM8QmyZXtg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxM8QmyZXtg [1] https://github.com/cmuratori/refterm https://github.com/cmuratori/refterm

Cold_Miserable 11mo ago

Is there a simple way to get the "Legacy Console" back without having to format and reinstall windows? Installing packages / the windows modules installer is broken.