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Canada right now is trying to figure out if the greatest their to their security is China or the USA. They can tie their boat to either against the other, but t

Canada right now is trying to figure out if the greatest their to their security is China or the USA. They can tie their boat to either against the other, but they can't be allies with both.

mmooss 1y ago
Can they be allies with neither? They are trying to improve relations with the EU and, most importantly, are members of NATO (where the US is also a member).
- deleted 1y ago
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- seanmcdirmid 1y ago
  Economically not really. China and the USA are the top economies, and China is only going to get more economically powerful, alignment with one or the other in trade at least is inevitable. The EU will be making similar decisions to Canada, and I doubt Canada is going to detach from Europe.
  - FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
    China is completely dependant on other countries for it's economic power (mostly the US) as an export economy. They're also staring down a demographic crash, soon (10 - 15% drop with 25% of the remaining polution over 65). They are basically at their peak right now.
    - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
      > China is completely dependant on other countries for it's economic power (mostly the US) as an export economy. That is Trump's big lie, but it has no basis in reality. This was the cornerstone of Trump's whole pressure agenda on China, and it imploded quickly when the Chinese indicated "We don't care about the American market, trade is only 5% of our GDP, and we have lots of trading partners." > They're also staring down a demographic crash, soon (10 - 15% drop with 25% of the remaining polution over 65). Investments in AI and automation make that iffy, investments that, beyond AI, the USA is not making. > They are basically at their peak right now. That is the core of Trump's big lie on China, and again, has no basis in reality.
    - Detrytus 1y ago
      It's always funny how people get this backwards: China being an export economy means that the whole world is dependent on them, not the other way around.
    - Tadpole9181 1y ago
      A lot of talk from a country that quite literally can't manufacturer the non-proverbial nuts and bolts it needs for domestic use. I wonder how much economic power matters when you have to shut down half the construction and manufacturing of a nation because there aren't enough fasteners to go around. I feel nothing but disappointment from how far the quality of American rhetoric has fallen.
ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
Real question: Is any serious person advocating Canada abandon the West for China? What's their analysis here? If anyone has an article I can read I would love to do that.
- incomingpain 1y ago
  >Real question: Is any serious person advocating Canada abandon the West for China? What's their analysis here? If anyone has an article I can read I would love to do that. In Canada? Oh yes, many serious liberals are advocating ending with usa and becoming an ally with china. About a month ago: https://globalnews.ca/news/11490896/canada-strategic-partnership-china/ https://globalnews.ca/news/11490896/canada-strategic-partner... Which resulted in the USA suspending all trade talks with Canada the next day. But over the last decade, the liberals also have ordered various anti-china divestments: https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3198209/canada-orders-three-chinese-firms-exit-lithium-deals-citing-national-security https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article... not to mention: https://electrek.co/2025/10/27/canada-rumored-immently-remove-tariffs-chinese-electric-cars/ https://electrek.co/2025/10/27/canada-rumored-immently-remov... Which this 'imminent' factor never happened, but what was imminent was right before this was the announcement of various auto manufacturing moving production out of canada. Not really much to do with china, more of a screw you to the big 3. China and Canada dont have a free trade agreement. The FIPA agreement is likely to be ended soon as it's possible. Going from the antagonistic to a major trade deal and changing to chinese alliance would be a bizarre change though.
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
    Thank you I will read these!
  - gpm 1y ago
    With the qualification that Canada has absolutely no intention of abandoning the West, merely the US. The intent of the government and people is absolutely to strengthen ties to western Europe, not weaken them.
SirFatty 1y ago
"Canada right now is trying to figure out if the greatest their to their security is China or the USA." I very much doubt that is true. Unless the Canadian government get's their information only from "truth" social.
- iinnPP 1y ago
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  - jack_tripper 1y ago
    [flagged]
goalieca 1y ago
The USA is a fantastic ally! When a small aircraft was recently hijacked from Vancouver international airport, guess which Air Force came to our rescue? Thank you!! While there’s a lot of news and media about trade wars with the USA, the vast majority 85% of it remains under the free trade agreement. China does not even come close to a free and open market for us and their state sponsored corporate espionage is a real and growing danger.
- jonbiggums22 1y ago
  I'd imagine the threats of annexation are more concerning than the tariffs.
- lawlessone 1y ago
  They might be more worried about the recent attempts to annex them. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/may/25/donald-trump-canada-alberta-province-independence https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/may/25/donald...
- seanmcdirmid 1y ago
  China didn't strongly suggest that Canada should become its 23rd or 24th province. Also, if the USA keeps dipping its feet into fascism every other 4 year election cycle, every other western democracy is going to start pumping lots of resources into a plan B
  - jack_tripper 1y ago
    >China didn't strongly suggest that Canada should become its 23rd or 24th province. China ransacked and then sank Nortel.
    - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
      So? If we are going to talk about economic damage, the USA isn't going to come up looking better.
deleted 1y ago
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mikkupikku 1y ago
> Canada right now is trying to figure out if the greatest [threat?] to their security is China or the USA. How do you get China in that list? Canada would most likely be challenged over their stake in the Arctic and Russia is plainly the greatest threat in that regard, not China. Russia has invested a great deal into arctic exploration and exploitation and pretty clearly sees the region as free real estate up for the taking. America too has a large stake in the Arctic, but has developed comparably fewer arctic capabilities than Russia. For Canada to have any chance of repelling a Russian invasion of their arctic territory would require America to help them, which under present American leadership would be a piss poor position for Canada to be in (not only because Trump has suggested annexing Canada himself, but also because he's said similar about Greenland, underscoring America's own desire to take that same arctic territory.) Now, I don't doubt that China would also like the Arctic for themselves, but from Canada's perspective, the relative threat of China must be less than that of Russia and America.
- seanmcdirmid 1y ago
  Russia can't even invade Ukraine right, I think the world sees them as pretty washed up as far as national security goes (besides them having nukes). China is like Russia, except richer, more disciplined, and not dumb. Canada also has a higher GDP than Russia despite having a much smaller population.
  - mikkupikku 1y ago
    Russia's arctic operational capability is world class, exceeding even America by far. America could at least try to engage Russia with submarine warfare and long range missiles, but what could Canada do themselves, muster a few hundred native locals armed with century old rifles? Canada would be forced to go to America for help, which might end up in Canada giving up some mineral rights at least, if not substantial chunks of territory in whole. Now, however unlikely you think Russia is to actually start some kinetic shit in the Arctic, I think you're crazy to rate their threat lower than China. China being richer, more disciplined and less dumb only makes the relative threat to Canada even smaller. Russia, being relatively dumb, undisciplined, poor and increasingly reliant on oil exports to prop up their economy makes the probability of Russia daring to start shit higher, not lower. Edit: Some of you obviously don't take this seriously, so here's a question for any of you. If Russia announces they are going to be drilling oil in arctic waters that are nominally Canada's, and declares their annexation of this territory a fiat accompli, what is Canada's move? Demand help from their NATO allies, which may or may not include America? What if America declines and demands the mineral rights to Canadian territory in exchange for chasing Russia off Canada's sea floor? Canada sure as hell can't fight Russia under the ice cap themselves. Without a credible military response of their, Canada must count on having reliable and powerful allies. Russia's desire and motive are clear, they want the arctic oil. China is dangerous in their own way, the PLAN is very dangerous, but if they're going to start shit it will be over Taiwan and if it involves anybody else it will probably be the USN and maybe the JSDF, not Canada. The real threat the PRC poses to Canada is subversion of the Canadian political system, buying and bribing their way through getting anything they want from Canada. And that's not the kind of threat you can counter with military spending.

Canada right now is trying to figure out if the greatest their to their security is China or the USA. They can tie their boat to either against the other, but they can't be allies with both.

mmooss 1y ago

Can they be allies with neither? They are trying to improve relations with the EU and, most importantly, are members of NATO (where the US is also a member).

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
seanmcdirmid 1y ago
Economically not really. China and the USA are the top economies, and China is only going to get more economically powerful, alignment with one or the other in trade at least is inevitable. The EU will be making similar decisions to Canada, and I doubt Canada is going to detach from Europe.
- FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
  China is completely dependant on other countries for it's economic power (mostly the US) as an export economy. They're also staring down a demographic crash, soon (10 - 15% drop with 25% of the remaining polution over 65). They are basically at their peak right now.
  - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
    > China is completely dependant on other countries for it's economic power (mostly the US) as an export economy. That is Trump's big lie, but it has no basis in reality. This was the cornerstone of Trump's whole pressure agenda on China, and it imploded quickly when the Chinese indicated "We don't care about the American market, trade is only 5% of our GDP, and we have lots of trading partners." > They're also staring down a demographic crash, soon (10 - 15% drop with 25% of the remaining polution over 65). Investments in AI and automation make that iffy, investments that, beyond AI, the USA is not making. > They are basically at their peak right now. That is the core of Trump's big lie on China, and again, has no basis in reality.
  - Detrytus 1y ago
    It's always funny how people get this backwards: China being an export economy means that the whole world is dependent on them, not the other way around.
  - Tadpole9181 1y ago
    A lot of talk from a country that quite literally can't manufacturer the non-proverbial nuts and bolts it needs for domestic use. I wonder how much economic power matters when you have to shut down half the construction and manufacturing of a nation because there aren't enough fasteners to go around. I feel nothing but disappointment from how far the quality of American rhetoric has fallen.

ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago

Real question: Is any serious person advocating Canada abandon the West for China? What's their analysis here? If anyone has an article I can read I would love to do that.

incomingpain 1y ago
>Real question: Is any serious person advocating Canada abandon the West for China? What's their analysis here? If anyone has an article I can read I would love to do that. In Canada? Oh yes, many serious liberals are advocating ending with usa and becoming an ally with china. About a month ago: https://globalnews.ca/news/11490896/canada-strategic-partnership-china/ https://globalnews.ca/news/11490896/canada-strategic-partner... Which resulted in the USA suspending all trade talks with Canada the next day. But over the last decade, the liberals also have ordered various anti-china divestments: https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3198209/canada-orders-three-chinese-firms-exit-lithium-deals-citing-national-security https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article... not to mention: https://electrek.co/2025/10/27/canada-rumored-immently-remove-tariffs-chinese-electric-cars/ https://electrek.co/2025/10/27/canada-rumored-immently-remov... Which this 'imminent' factor never happened, but what was imminent was right before this was the announcement of various auto manufacturing moving production out of canada. Not really much to do with china, more of a screw you to the big 3. China and Canada dont have a free trade agreement. The FIPA agreement is likely to be ended soon as it's possible. Going from the antagonistic to a major trade deal and changing to chinese alliance would be a bizarre change though.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
  Thank you I will read these!
- gpm 1y ago
  With the qualification that Canada has absolutely no intention of abandoning the West, merely the US. The intent of the government and people is absolutely to strengthen ties to western Europe, not weaken them.

SirFatty 1y ago

"Canada right now is trying to figure out if the greatest their to their security is China or the USA." I very much doubt that is true. Unless the Canadian government get's their information only from "truth" social.

iinnPP 1y ago
[flagged]
- jack_tripper 1y ago
  [flagged]

goalieca 1y ago

The USA is a fantastic ally! When a small aircraft was recently hijacked from Vancouver international airport, guess which Air Force came to our rescue? Thank you!! While there’s a lot of news and media about trade wars with the USA, the vast majority 85% of it remains under the free trade agreement. China does not even come close to a free and open market for us and their state sponsored corporate espionage is a real and growing danger.

jonbiggums22 1y ago
I'd imagine the threats of annexation are more concerning than the tariffs.
lawlessone 1y ago
They might be more worried about the recent attempts to annex them. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/may/25/donald-trump-canada-alberta-province-independence https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/may/25/donald...
seanmcdirmid 1y ago
China didn't strongly suggest that Canada should become its 23rd or 24th province. Also, if the USA keeps dipping its feet into fascism every other 4 year election cycle, every other western democracy is going to start pumping lots of resources into a plan B
- jack_tripper 1y ago
  >China didn't strongly suggest that Canada should become its 23rd or 24th province. China ransacked and then sank Nortel.
  - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
    So? If we are going to talk about economic damage, the USA isn't going to come up looking better.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

mikkupikku 1y ago

> Canada right now is trying to figure out if the greatest [threat?] to their security is China or the USA. How do you get China in that list? Canada would most likely be challenged over their stake in the Arctic and Russia is plainly the greatest threat in that regard, not China. Russia has invested a great deal into arctic exploration and exploitation and pretty clearly sees the region as free real estate up for the taking. America too has a large stake in the Arctic, but has developed comparably fewer arctic capabilities than Russia. For Canada to have any chance of repelling a Russian invasion of their arctic territory would require America to help them, which under present American leadership would be a piss poor position for Canada to be in (not only because Trump has suggested annexing Canada himself, but also because he's said similar about Greenland, underscoring America's own desire to take that same arctic territory.) Now, I don't doubt that China would also like the Arctic for themselves, but from Canada's perspective, the relative threat of China must be less than that of Russia and America.

seanmcdirmid 1y ago
Russia can't even invade Ukraine right, I think the world sees them as pretty washed up as far as national security goes (besides them having nukes). China is like Russia, except richer, more disciplined, and not dumb. Canada also has a higher GDP than Russia despite having a much smaller population.
- mikkupikku 1y ago
  Russia's arctic operational capability is world class, exceeding even America by far. America could at least try to engage Russia with submarine warfare and long range missiles, but what could Canada do themselves, muster a few hundred native locals armed with century old rifles? Canada would be forced to go to America for help, which might end up in Canada giving up some mineral rights at least, if not substantial chunks of territory in whole. Now, however unlikely you think Russia is to actually start some kinetic shit in the Arctic, I think you're crazy to rate their threat lower than China. China being richer, more disciplined and less dumb only makes the relative threat to Canada even smaller. Russia, being relatively dumb, undisciplined, poor and increasingly reliant on oil exports to prop up their economy makes the probability of Russia daring to start shit higher, not lower. Edit: Some of you obviously don't take this seriously, so here's a question for any of you. If Russia announces they are going to be drilling oil in arctic waters that are nominally Canada's, and declares their annexation of this territory a fiat accompli, what is Canada's move? Demand help from their NATO allies, which may or may not include America? What if America declines and demands the mineral rights to Canadian territory in exchange for chasing Russia off Canada's sea floor? Canada sure as hell can't fight Russia under the ice cap themselves. Without a credible military response of their, Canada must count on having reliable and powerful allies. Russia's desire and motive are clear, they want the arctic oil. China is dangerous in their own way, the PLAN is very dangerous, but if they're going to start shit it will be over Taiwan and if it involves anybody else it will probably be the USN and maybe the JSDF, not Canada. The real threat the PRC poses to Canada is subversion of the Canadian political system, buying and bribing their way through getting anything they want from Canada. And that's not the kind of threat you can counter with military spending.