8 ms·

The article left out the most important question: are there any lasting negative consequences for Microsoft due to all these accidents? The answer is likely no.

The article left out the most important question: are there any lasting negative consequences for Microsoft due to all these accidents? The answer is likely no. And that's all the the shareholders care about sadly. So this will continue to happen imo. Those Quality Assurance testers won't be coming back any time soon.

elcritch 11mo ago
There will be consequences, but long term. Everyone at my startup hates MSFT products and Teams especially. We've talked about switching.
- josfredo 11mo ago
  Most people dislike their government, they however comply with it in the dimensions that matter.
  - 0x696C6961 11mo ago
    The difference is that every time a new company is founded, it's a clean slate for which tools are used.
    - HPsquared 11mo ago
      You still need to play to the constraints of the market, which come in hard and soft varieties.
- AdamN 11mo ago
  lol you've 'talked' about switching. I'm really surprised that any startup would be on Teams in the first place. I get enterprises but for startups I would think other tools make more sense (Slack, etc...).
  - SebFender 11mo ago
    Well said.
  - latentsea 11mo ago
    The startup I work at uses Teams. It's the whole "Microsoft for startups" package deal they do means we're on all things Microsoft.
    - throwawaysleep 11mo ago
      Why "talked about switching" is irrelevant. If it is cheap enough, you will take it.
- antiloper 11mo ago
  Everyone hates teams, but every company uses it and will keep using it because it's bundled with office anyway.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - sidewndr46 11mo ago
    I thought they rebranded Teams to Copilot 365?
  - Cthulhu_ 11mo ago
    And the Office package is a very attractive offering. $36 / user / month and they get managed emails, chat, office, SSO, cloud storage, Windows, etc - basically everything that used to be the domain of a sysadmin. The competitors are all fragmented; Google probably gets the closest but doesn't have a chat service like Slack, Teams or Discord and doesn't do hardware management as far as I'm aware unless you use Chromebooks.
    - fragmede 11mo ago
      > Google probably gets the closest but doesn't have a chat service like Slack Google is up to a dozen versions of chat, the current incarnation is called Google Meet which includes a video akak Zoom type service as well as a Slack-type chat service.
- entropie 11mo ago
  Yeah. I know this one. Its the same story since like 15+ years now.
  - freehorse 11mo ago
    Well, with the windows 10 support ending, it is different now. To some extent staying on windows requires more effort than switching, which is an interesting place to be. I have "switched" people to macos or linux that before would not even bother and hear such stories everywhere. The linux ecosystem has matured and windows is no longer the easy/bugfree experience that was. Eg I tried to install linux and windows to some brand new hardware couple of years ago, linux worked out of the box while for windows I had to go troubleshooting mode and find/download/install drivers manually. 10-15 years ago or so it was always the opposite.
    - entropie 11mo ago
      > Eg I tried to install linux and windows to some brand new hardware couple of years ago, I realized this too. I recently installed a dual boot Fedora/Win11. The fedora installation was literally pressing 4 times "Next" and was done after 5 minutes. Windows took well over 1 hour (offline account) and installing drivers and taming edge & co was over 2 hours at the end.
- StopDisinfo910 11mo ago
  I don’t get the Teams hate. My experience is that document sharing and collaborative edition work insanely well with Office. Visio is fool proof and quality is ok even with a poor connection. The integration with outlook is perfect. The product ecosystem is great so it’s easy to get room booking and auto-connect. Plus, copilot is good at minutes and transcription. I can’t imagine going back to a time where I couldn’t just throw an excel file or ppt in a discussion and get collaborative editing straight away. At the price point, it’s pretty much unmatched in my experience. What would people rather use instead?
  - binary132 11mo ago
    The only thing I really like about Teams is that the AI-optimized audio codec is the only video call audio that doesn’t cause some people’s voices to become physically painful to listen to.
  - Spooky23 11mo ago
    Visio was built to be acquired by Microsoft. It was the best office family app pre-acquisition. Every subsequent release is worse than the one before it. Lucid is a better tool in every way.
    - jansper39 11mo ago
      Lucid is for a totally different purpose though.
  - Mashimo 11mo ago
    Teams works fine for my limited needs. Though it feels sluggish, sometimes a chat or calendar takes 3 seconds to load.
    - jonbiggums22 11mo ago
      Even loading a command prompt or the calculator takes more than 3 seconds on Windows 11 so maybe they've just lowered the bar so much it passes internal testing.
Gigachad 11mo ago
They seem to be very slowly losing to Apple on the laptop / productivity market and first signs of losing to Linux on gaming. In the same way that their incompetence has been very slow to move the needle, once they lose the market it’s going to be almost impossible to get it back.
- whizzter 11mo ago
  More than anything, once people realize that they can be fine without MS because 5-10% of the non-Apple market has done so (and the alternatives has figured out the kinks with the mass influx of users) it could move from a trickle to an avalanche. The upside is that MS has the reserves and fallbacks to get their shit together if they realized that they are faced with a bad sitation and those that can't leave will get better products.
  - binary132 11mo ago
    I think they already know and have been trying not to lose to Apple for a long time, as evidenced by their awkward attempts to embrace “good design” and “cool”.
- Arch-TK 11mo ago
  I don't think Linux will ever fully take over gaming regardless of effort unless competitive multiplayer game companies decide to give up on assuming total control over your system in order to make cheaters undetectable to the average gamer*. It would require that a Linux based OS was released which allows games companies, in a standardised way, to take full control over the system. And at this point, it won't be a Linux distro, it will instead just be like Android. I think calling that a market takeover would be similarly thin and insignificant as calling android a "Linux takeover of the mobile OS market". But this isn't to say that Microsoft won't lose the market share to "Gamedroid" or whatever, it just won't be losing it to Linux. * As has been demonstrated, KLA and similar technologies do help make cheating more difficult and require more resources. But, as the cheating industry's pocketbooks make clear, cheating hasn't stopped, it has just become more discreet such that most players simply don't notice when they're losing to cheaters.
rs186 11mo ago
Anecdotally: I happen to use Windows on both personal and work laptop. Some of the bugs I see exist across Home and Enterprise version. Sleep remains a nightmare on Windows, and yes across laptops made by different manufacturers. I have created tickets and this, and IT doesn't have a solution. I have decided that my next personal laptop definitely won't run Windows, and if I am allowed to ask for a Mac machine at work in the future, I'll jump at that opportunity. That would mean two fewer Windows licenses and less usage of related products (good riddance, Edge!). And I am sure I am not the only one who is thinking about all this. But of course I have no idea if that matters in the grand scheme of things -- after all, many people tolerate these bugs just like they tolerate all the ads by Microsoft, Google, Meta etc.
- vel0city 11mo ago
  Every platform has some hardware that has issues with sleeping. I've had numerous Linux machines that entirely fail to resume often, this current MacBook I'm on fails to properly reconnect things on USB hubs after a resume, etc. The grass is always greener. Try sleep study on your current machine. I had an issue with one machine constantly waking from sleep. Lots of other tools couldn't clue me into what was going on and why the system was actually waking. Sleep study pointed exactly to the device causing problems, disabling it from waking the system solved my sleep problems on that device. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/modern-standby-sleepstudy https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/de...
anonymars 11mo ago
Time will tell if they'll hit the trust thermocline: https://xcancel.com/garius/status/1588115310124539904 https://xcancel.com/garius/status/1588115310124539904 But I think it's the worst aspect of the subscription model. In the past, people just wouldn't buy the new version if it sucked

elcritch 11mo ago

There will be consequences, but long term. Everyone at my startup hates MSFT products and Teams especially. We've talked about switching.

josfredo 11mo ago
Most people dislike their government, they however comply with it in the dimensions that matter.
- 0x696C6961 11mo ago
  The difference is that every time a new company is founded, it's a clean slate for which tools are used.
  - HPsquared 11mo ago
    You still need to play to the constraints of the market, which come in hard and soft varieties.
AdamN 11mo ago
lol you've 'talked' about switching. I'm really surprised that any startup would be on Teams in the first place. I get enterprises but for startups I would think other tools make more sense (Slack, etc...).
- SebFender 11mo ago
  Well said.
- latentsea 11mo ago
  The startup I work at uses Teams. It's the whole "Microsoft for startups" package deal they do means we're on all things Microsoft.
  - throwawaysleep 11mo ago
    Why "talked about switching" is irrelevant. If it is cheap enough, you will take it.
antiloper 11mo ago
Everyone hates teams, but every company uses it and will keep using it because it's bundled with office anyway.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- sidewndr46 11mo ago
  I thought they rebranded Teams to Copilot 365?
- Cthulhu_ 11mo ago
  And the Office package is a very attractive offering. $36 / user / month and they get managed emails, chat, office, SSO, cloud storage, Windows, etc - basically everything that used to be the domain of a sysadmin. The competitors are all fragmented; Google probably gets the closest but doesn't have a chat service like Slack, Teams or Discord and doesn't do hardware management as far as I'm aware unless you use Chromebooks.
  - fragmede 11mo ago
    > Google probably gets the closest but doesn't have a chat service like Slack Google is up to a dozen versions of chat, the current incarnation is called Google Meet which includes a video akak Zoom type service as well as a Slack-type chat service.
entropie 11mo ago
Yeah. I know this one. Its the same story since like 15+ years now.
- freehorse 11mo ago
  Well, with the windows 10 support ending, it is different now. To some extent staying on windows requires more effort than switching, which is an interesting place to be. I have "switched" people to macos or linux that before would not even bother and hear such stories everywhere. The linux ecosystem has matured and windows is no longer the easy/bugfree experience that was. Eg I tried to install linux and windows to some brand new hardware couple of years ago, linux worked out of the box while for windows I had to go troubleshooting mode and find/download/install drivers manually. 10-15 years ago or so it was always the opposite.
  - entropie 11mo ago
    > Eg I tried to install linux and windows to some brand new hardware couple of years ago, I realized this too. I recently installed a dual boot Fedora/Win11. The fedora installation was literally pressing 4 times "Next" and was done after 5 minutes. Windows took well over 1 hour (offline account) and installing drivers and taming edge & co was over 2 hours at the end.
StopDisinfo910 11mo ago
I don’t get the Teams hate. My experience is that document sharing and collaborative edition work insanely well with Office. Visio is fool proof and quality is ok even with a poor connection. The integration with outlook is perfect. The product ecosystem is great so it’s easy to get room booking and auto-connect. Plus, copilot is good at minutes and transcription. I can’t imagine going back to a time where I couldn’t just throw an excel file or ppt in a discussion and get collaborative editing straight away. At the price point, it’s pretty much unmatched in my experience. What would people rather use instead?
- binary132 11mo ago
  The only thing I really like about Teams is that the AI-optimized audio codec is the only video call audio that doesn’t cause some people’s voices to become physically painful to listen to.
- Spooky23 11mo ago
  Visio was built to be acquired by Microsoft. It was the best office family app pre-acquisition. Every subsequent release is worse than the one before it. Lucid is a better tool in every way.
  - jansper39 11mo ago
    Lucid is for a totally different purpose though.
- Mashimo 11mo ago
  Teams works fine for my limited needs. Though it feels sluggish, sometimes a chat or calendar takes 3 seconds to load.
  - jonbiggums22 11mo ago
    Even loading a command prompt or the calculator takes more than 3 seconds on Windows 11 so maybe they've just lowered the bar so much it passes internal testing.

Gigachad 11mo ago

They seem to be very slowly losing to Apple on the laptop / productivity market and first signs of losing to Linux on gaming. In the same way that their incompetence has been very slow to move the needle, once they lose the market it’s going to be almost impossible to get it back.

whizzter 11mo ago
More than anything, once people realize that they can be fine without MS because 5-10% of the non-Apple market has done so (and the alternatives has figured out the kinks with the mass influx of users) it could move from a trickle to an avalanche. The upside is that MS has the reserves and fallbacks to get their shit together if they realized that they are faced with a bad sitation and those that can't leave will get better products.
- binary132 11mo ago
  I think they already know and have been trying not to lose to Apple for a long time, as evidenced by their awkward attempts to embrace “good design” and “cool”.
Arch-TK 11mo ago
I don't think Linux will ever fully take over gaming regardless of effort unless competitive multiplayer game companies decide to give up on assuming total control over your system in order to make cheaters undetectable to the average gamer*. It would require that a Linux based OS was released which allows games companies, in a standardised way, to take full control over the system. And at this point, it won't be a Linux distro, it will instead just be like Android. I think calling that a market takeover would be similarly thin and insignificant as calling android a "Linux takeover of the mobile OS market". But this isn't to say that Microsoft won't lose the market share to "Gamedroid" or whatever, it just won't be losing it to Linux. * As has been demonstrated, KLA and similar technologies do help make cheating more difficult and require more resources. But, as the cheating industry's pocketbooks make clear, cheating hasn't stopped, it has just become more discreet such that most players simply don't notice when they're losing to cheaters.

rs186 11mo ago

Anecdotally: I happen to use Windows on both personal and work laptop. Some of the bugs I see exist across Home and Enterprise version. Sleep remains a nightmare on Windows, and yes across laptops made by different manufacturers. I have created tickets and this, and IT doesn't have a solution. I have decided that my next personal laptop definitely won't run Windows, and if I am allowed to ask for a Mac machine at work in the future, I'll jump at that opportunity. That would mean two fewer Windows licenses and less usage of related products (good riddance, Edge!). And I am sure I am not the only one who is thinking about all this. But of course I have no idea if that matters in the grand scheme of things -- after all, many people tolerate these bugs just like they tolerate all the ads by Microsoft, Google, Meta etc.

vel0city 11mo ago
Every platform has some hardware that has issues with sleeping. I've had numerous Linux machines that entirely fail to resume often, this current MacBook I'm on fails to properly reconnect things on USB hubs after a resume, etc. The grass is always greener. Try sleep study on your current machine. I had an issue with one machine constantly waking from sleep. Lots of other tools couldn't clue me into what was going on and why the system was actually waking. Sleep study pointed exactly to the device causing problems, disabling it from waking the system solved my sleep problems on that device. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/modern-standby-sleepstudy https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/de...

anonymars 11mo ago

Time will tell if they'll hit the trust thermocline: https://xcancel.com/garius/status/1588115310124539904 https://xcancel.com/garius/status/1588115310124539904 But I think it's the worst aspect of the subscription model. In the past, people just wouldn't buy the new version if it sucked