5 ms·

Our Adsense account was abruptly shut down

49 points by one2many 14y ago

smoyer 14y ago
Wow ... two in one day may be a new record and if Google doesn't step up with answers, they'll end up scaring everyone away. I completely understand their perceived need for secrecy, but is there some critical mass that once reached will cause business to decline? The other HN link: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4585043 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4585043
- markyc 14y ago
  "is there some critical mass that once reached will cause business to decline?" not when you own the market
- fooey 14y ago
  their customer support it pretty bad, but their ad tech, and hence their profitability, is so much better than anyone else they have no real competition i have agents approach me directly with ad networks specifically targetting my niche, and the best I've seen is off by more than a factor 10 when it comes to revenue
andrewcooke 14y ago
it's like the guy at the newspaper cannot read. google sent him a link to a list of issues, and he doesn't address them at all. if you look at the link, it was shut down for bad clicks, incitement to users to click, or similar. at the very least he could have said in the reply something like "we don't think we have people clicking on links, but if you could provide some IPs we might be able to track down someone at the paper who's being over-enthusiastic". even if he knows nothing like that has happened he could have added to the reply (talking about XML uploads, copyright issues) something like "these don't seem to fit into the ilicit activities listed. we don't have incitements to click on ads (see ...) so if the above isn't relevant we suspect there has been some mistaken clicking locally. we have educated the users and we've put in place the following measures to track ..." instead, he shows no sign of having understood the issues and no inclination to help solve the problem. he just whines. this is basic psychology. you need something from these people. so you try to act like you understand and want to help, even if you think they are incompetent assholes. [edit: maybe i come across as unsympathetic. i can understand how maddening this must be. but surely that's more reason to get it fixed? and to get it fixed you need to cooperate, not act like a victim. at least, that's how i would play it (it's his job to make this work).]
- jemka 14y ago
  Am I reading something different than you? Perhaps my reading comprehension is as poor as "the guy at the newspaper". The "list of issues" Google provides is a generic list of possible reasons. Essentially, "Thanks for choosing Google. Your account has been disabled. Here is a list of reasons we normally disable an account with no warning. You may or may not have directly or indirectly done any of the activities listed, but we're not going to tell you either way. Feel free to figure it out. If you think you know and have taken steps to remedy the issue(s), then please let us know by submitting an appeal. However, you only get one chance and our single response to your appeal is final." So this guy and every other person that has to go through this terrible experience has a right to be mad and express their anger. And it's not a matter of being able to read. It's a matter of Google's terrible customer service.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - chris_wot 14y ago
    Google tried this in NSW, and they had to reinstate the account and all th money owing. Helps to have. Strong regulator! http://www.smartcompany.com.au/internet/20120206-meet-the-entrepreneur-who-took-on-google-after-his-adsense-account-was-suspended-and-won.html http://www.smartcompany.com.au/internet/20120206-meet-the-en...
- one2many 14y ago
  First of all, this has been going on for a month and I have been trying to figure it out. I have spoken with people across Google and no one seems to no how to fix the issue or even be able to access what the issue is. I am not asking for sympathy, I am asking if anyone has experienced this and if so what they did. Even our YouTube Account Manager said, "I have honestly never seen anything like this before" I filled out the online form stating my case and received a reply in less than 4 hours. Stating that the account was still disabled.
  - andrewcooke 14y ago
ChuckMcM 14y ago
From the post: "We migrated all of our videos from the expensive Brightcove platform in August and went live on YouTube in August and on our site with YouTube on August 22, using the embedded player." I am wondering if anyone has yet connected "expensive" vs "cheap" to "Has customer support" vs "Has no support" ? It isn't exactly a zero sum game. Youtube seems to work really well for indie publishers who put up cat videos and large partners with deep pockets like Vevo and the music labels, and for people in the middle, it seems to be hit or miss. And if you have issues, it is all miss.
geargrinder 14y ago
Adsense does this 99% of the time when the content provider clicks on the Adsense links on their page. Basically, you can't even test the adsense links, especially if you aren't sending a lot of clicks.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
DanBC 14y ago
That blog makes the same mistake that many blogs makes and has no links to the product, nor to whatever the hell it is their talking about. (https://www.youtube.com/user/pe?feature=watch https://www.youtube.com/user/pe?feature=watch) I'm guessing that's the channel. Their website (http://www.pe.com/ http://www.pe.com/) The subscription link on the website, which takes you to this page: (http://www.youtube.com/subscription_center?add_user=pe http://www.youtube.com/subscription_center?add_user=pe) There are 5 videos with viewership over 5,000. The rest? Most have less than 500 views. The innovationmedian blog links to a few sites that make my neck itchy, in that "I'm sure these people are doing something unsavoury with online ads or reviews but I have no idea what it is". I know I'm over critical of advertising stuff.
- jeremymims 14y ago
  This personal blog post is referring to one of the top 100 local newspapers in the country. You may not like advertising, but this paper is 130 years old and has won a Pulitzer prize. It's the paper of record for the Riverside community.
  - DanBC 14y ago
    Why isn't it linked anywhere?
downandout 14y ago
It's most likely that "invalid clicks" have occurred. If you clicked a few times on your own ads, this is why. It could also be a competitor intentionally trying to take you down. They just simulate automated clicks from the same IP on your ads. In this case you would have no control, and Google would yet be justified in destroying your account because of the activity that your participation in their network is generating - even if it is through no fault of your own. This is one of many reasons why Adsense is not recommended. Another reason is that fact that they take so long to pay. No one pays on Net-60 anymore, except Google, because they can get away with it. You are lucky though. In many cases, they wait until you've sent them a ton of traffic for 60 days - just before payday. They then tell you that you aren't being paid, close your account, and refuse to provide a reason for it. There is no indication about how much (if any) of the traffic you aren't being paid for is being refunded to the advertisers. I'd suspect it's not anywhere near 100%. I'd suggest you join a CPA network that pays weekly and then choose advertisers from their inventory.
- omarchowdhury 14y ago
  They pay net 30.
tlogan 14y ago
Here is the problem: "We migrated all of our videos from the expensive Brightcove platform in August and went live on YouTube in August and on our site with YouTube on August 22, using the embedded player." That is all. Google is free and nice but it is not really smart to run business based on company which essentially has no support.
mylittlepony 14y ago
How come we still haven't seen a YC company competing with Adsense/Adwords?
- jonknee 14y ago
  I'd love to see some competition, but it's a tough nut to crack. Yahoo gave it a try for a few years, but ended up shutting their offering down. Google has millions of paying advertisers, billions of page views and the ability to match them up in real time. All the while providing analytics to both sides. You're not going to beat them at efficiency. I get pitches from ad networks all the time, but they are almost never able to beat AdSense. Google never had to set up a conference call to win my business, they just do a better job,
  - thenomad 14y ago
    Yahoo have just opened their offering up again, in partnership with Media.net. I currently run ads through Media.net, and they're responsive and good to work with (so far). I'm quite excited by this new development.
fredsanford 14y ago
Questionable Decision #1 You went from something you paid for (Brightcove) to something free (Youtube). Questionable Decision #2 You put all your eggs in one basket with a platform (Youtube) that's known to have horrible support AND act unilaterally in its own favor with totally automated systems. You have somewhat low view counts. (Based on what's stated in the HN comments page, I'm too lazy to look) I'm not sure what you expected, but it looks like old media jumping on a new media bandwagon and expecting it all to just work.
- keithnoizu 14y ago
  Fair enough but fark adsense. I had my account locked out as well after getting click bombed. Horrible customer service/follow up.
grumpygremlin 14y ago
Amateur shitfuck does dumb thing, experiences consequences and subsequently cries about it on his blog. Film at 11.
robomartin 14y ago
Man, I could write pages about how badly Google executes on AdSense customer service. You'd think that for all of the smart people who work there they'd figure something out that makes sense and is fair for all involved. I mean, without thinking too hard, things like: - Probation periods starting at zero revenue and ramping-up based on various criteria - No account cancellation but rather revenue throttling WITH good feedback for site/content owner to fix problems - Paid account verification. I'm sure most of us would not mind paying a one time or annual $1,000 fee to be verified and have real customer service. If you have a real business this is nothing. Think about the revenue throttling idea. You do something they don't approve of and your revenue is throttled down. Some feedback is provided. You make some changes. If they are adequate, revenue throttles back up. Conceptually simple. One argument against this is that you could be teaching scammers how to work around the rules. Not so. You are teaching scammers to work within the rules. If Google is smart enough in guidance and feedback they stand to turn questionable sites into "law abiding" sites. Those who don't play by the rules get to host ads and make no revenue or nearly nothing. I think this would be a far better approach. They also need a learning mode. I worked with someone who implemented AdSense and didn't really understand it all. He didn't really do anything violently bad. I don't remember the details, but the account got shut-down within a week. This was a case of an honest business person who probably doesn't have a single molecule of malice in his body that got treated like crap by Google for not knowing what they want. The problem is that you can't know what they want, not all of it. There needs to be a "learning mode". Maybe the throttling period is exactly that. Make it a smoothly rising function that is driven by quality criteria that is communicated clearly and effectively. As long as you develop your site you get flags to guide you into compliance. This, to me at least, makes too much sense.
- thenomad 14y ago
  Yes, yes, yes, this. And the thing is, Google aren't losing free users or pennies with this crap. I know of one SINGLE case where Google's silly Adsense banning policies lost the Big G 6 figures a year - because they couldn't be bothered to have a human get in touch and just auto-banned. As I've mentioned elsewhere, they've dropped low 5 figures a year by disabling my Adsense account with no clear explanation why. I really, really cannot see what the business case here is. Can anyone enlighten me?
huyvun 14y ago
I run a moderately successful chat site , and have been utilizing Adsense for almost 5 years, with an average revenue of around $8000/month. For no apparent reason our site was removed from Adsense.. Apparently Google has recently purchased Meebo, and as a result have been shutting down and have added 'no chat sites' to their policy..

49 points by one2many 14y ago

Wow ... two in one day may be a new record and if Google doesn't step up with answers, they'll end up scaring everyone away. I completely understand their perceived need for secrecy, but is there some critical mass that once reached will cause business to decline? The other HN link: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4585043 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4585043

markyc 14y ago
"is there some critical mass that once reached will cause business to decline?" not when you own the market
fooey 14y ago
their customer support it pretty bad, but their ad tech, and hence their profitability, is so much better than anyone else they have no real competition i have agents approach me directly with ad networks specifically targetting my niche, and the best I've seen is off by more than a factor 10 when it comes to revenue

andrewcooke 14y ago

it's like the guy at the newspaper cannot read. google sent him a link to a list of issues, and he doesn't address them at all. if you look at the link, it was shut down for bad clicks, incitement to users to click, or similar. at the very least he could have said in the reply something like "we don't think we have people clicking on links, but if you could provide some IPs we might be able to track down someone at the paper who's being over-enthusiastic". even if he knows nothing like that has happened he could have added to the reply (talking about XML uploads, copyright issues) something like "these don't seem to fit into the ilicit activities listed. we don't have incitements to click on ads (see ...) so if the above isn't relevant we suspect there has been some mistaken clicking locally. we have educated the users and we've put in place the following measures to track ..." instead, he shows no sign of having understood the issues and no inclination to help solve the problem. he just whines. this is basic psychology. you need something from these people. so you try to act like you understand and want to help, even if you think they are incompetent assholes. [edit: maybe i come across as unsympathetic. i can understand how maddening this must be. but surely that's more reason to get it fixed? and to get it fixed you need to cooperate, not act like a victim. at least, that's how i would play it (it's his job to make this work).]

jemka 14y ago
Am I reading something different than you? Perhaps my reading comprehension is as poor as "the guy at the newspaper". The "list of issues" Google provides is a generic list of possible reasons. Essentially, "Thanks for choosing Google. Your account has been disabled. Here is a list of reasons we normally disable an account with no warning. You may or may not have directly or indirectly done any of the activities listed, but we're not going to tell you either way. Feel free to figure it out. If you think you know and have taken steps to remedy the issue(s), then please let us know by submitting an appeal. However, you only get one chance and our single response to your appeal is final." So this guy and every other person that has to go through this terrible experience has a right to be mad and express their anger. And it's not a matter of being able to read. It's a matter of Google's terrible customer service.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- chris_wot 14y ago
  Google tried this in NSW, and they had to reinstate the account and all th money owing. Helps to have. Strong regulator! http://www.smartcompany.com.au/internet/20120206-meet-the-entrepreneur-who-took-on-google-after-his-adsense-account-was-suspended-and-won.html http://www.smartcompany.com.au/internet/20120206-meet-the-en...
one2many 14y ago
First of all, this has been going on for a month and I have been trying to figure it out. I have spoken with people across Google and no one seems to no how to fix the issue or even be able to access what the issue is. I am not asking for sympathy, I am asking if anyone has experienced this and if so what they did. Even our YouTube Account Manager said, "I have honestly never seen anything like this before" I filled out the online form stating my case and received a reply in less than 4 hours. Stating that the account was still disabled.
- andrewcooke 14y ago

ChuckMcM 14y ago

From the post: "We migrated all of our videos from the expensive Brightcove platform in August and went live on YouTube in August and on our site with YouTube on August 22, using the embedded player." I am wondering if anyone has yet connected "expensive" vs "cheap" to "Has customer support" vs "Has no support" ? It isn't exactly a zero sum game. Youtube seems to work really well for indie publishers who put up cat videos and large partners with deep pockets like Vevo and the music labels, and for people in the middle, it seems to be hit or miss. And if you have issues, it is all miss.

geargrinder 14y ago

Adsense does this 99% of the time when the content provider clicks on the Adsense links on their page. Basically, you can't even test the adsense links, especially if you aren't sending a lot of clicks.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

DanBC 14y ago

That blog makes the same mistake that many blogs makes and has no links to the product, nor to whatever the hell it is their talking about. (https://www.youtube.com/user/pe?feature=watch https://www.youtube.com/user/pe?feature=watch) I'm guessing that's the channel. Their website (http://www.pe.com/ http://www.pe.com/) The subscription link on the website, which takes you to this page: (http://www.youtube.com/subscription_center?add_user=pe http://www.youtube.com/subscription_center?add_user=pe) There are 5 videos with viewership over 5,000. The rest? Most have less than 500 views. The innovationmedian blog links to a few sites that make my neck itchy, in that "I'm sure these people are doing something unsavoury with online ads or reviews but I have no idea what it is". I know I'm over critical of advertising stuff.

jeremymims 14y ago
This personal blog post is referring to one of the top 100 local newspapers in the country. You may not like advertising, but this paper is 130 years old and has won a Pulitzer prize. It's the paper of record for the Riverside community.
- DanBC 14y ago
  Why isn't it linked anywhere?

downandout 14y ago

It's most likely that "invalid clicks" have occurred. If you clicked a few times on your own ads, this is why. It could also be a competitor intentionally trying to take you down. They just simulate automated clicks from the same IP on your ads. In this case you would have no control, and Google would yet be justified in destroying your account because of the activity that your participation in their network is generating - even if it is through no fault of your own. This is one of many reasons why Adsense is not recommended. Another reason is that fact that they take so long to pay. No one pays on Net-60 anymore, except Google, because they can get away with it. You are lucky though. In many cases, they wait until you've sent them a ton of traffic for 60 days - just before payday. They then tell you that you aren't being paid, close your account, and refuse to provide a reason for it. There is no indication about how much (if any) of the traffic you aren't being paid for is being refunded to the advertisers. I'd suspect it's not anywhere near 100%. I'd suggest you join a CPA network that pays weekly and then choose advertisers from their inventory.

omarchowdhury 14y ago
They pay net 30.

tlogan 14y ago

Here is the problem: "We migrated all of our videos from the expensive Brightcove platform in August and went live on YouTube in August and on our site with YouTube on August 22, using the embedded player." That is all. Google is free and nice but it is not really smart to run business based on company which essentially has no support.

mylittlepony 14y ago

How come we still haven't seen a YC company competing with Adsense/Adwords?

jonknee 14y ago
I'd love to see some competition, but it's a tough nut to crack. Yahoo gave it a try for a few years, but ended up shutting their offering down. Google has millions of paying advertisers, billions of page views and the ability to match them up in real time. All the while providing analytics to both sides. You're not going to beat them at efficiency. I get pitches from ad networks all the time, but they are almost never able to beat AdSense. Google never had to set up a conference call to win my business, they just do a better job,
- thenomad 14y ago
  Yahoo have just opened their offering up again, in partnership with Media.net. I currently run ads through Media.net, and they're responsive and good to work with (so far). I'm quite excited by this new development.

fredsanford 14y ago

Questionable Decision #1 You went from something you paid for (Brightcove) to something free (Youtube). Questionable Decision #2 You put all your eggs in one basket with a platform (Youtube) that's known to have horrible support AND act unilaterally in its own favor with totally automated systems. You have somewhat low view counts. (Based on what's stated in the HN comments page, I'm too lazy to look) I'm not sure what you expected, but it looks like old media jumping on a new media bandwagon and expecting it all to just work.

keithnoizu 14y ago
Fair enough but fark adsense. I had my account locked out as well after getting click bombed. Horrible customer service/follow up.

grumpygremlin 14y ago

Amateur shitfuck does dumb thing, experiences consequences and subsequently cries about it on his blog. Film at 11.

robomartin 14y ago

Man, I could write pages about how badly Google executes on AdSense customer service. You'd think that for all of the smart people who work there they'd figure something out that makes sense and is fair for all involved. I mean, without thinking too hard, things like: - Probation periods starting at zero revenue and ramping-up based on various criteria - No account cancellation but rather revenue throttling WITH good feedback for site/content owner to fix problems - Paid account verification. I'm sure most of us would not mind paying a one time or annual $1,000 fee to be verified and have real customer service. If you have a real business this is nothing. Think about the revenue throttling idea. You do something they don't approve of and your revenue is throttled down. Some feedback is provided. You make some changes. If they are adequate, revenue throttles back up. Conceptually simple. One argument against this is that you could be teaching scammers how to work around the rules. Not so. You are teaching scammers to work within the rules. If Google is smart enough in guidance and feedback they stand to turn questionable sites into "law abiding" sites. Those who don't play by the rules get to host ads and make no revenue or nearly nothing. I think this would be a far better approach. They also need a learning mode. I worked with someone who implemented AdSense and didn't really understand it all. He didn't really do anything violently bad. I don't remember the details, but the account got shut-down within a week. This was a case of an honest business person who probably doesn't have a single molecule of malice in his body that got treated like crap by Google for not knowing what they want. The problem is that you can't know what they want, not all of it. There needs to be a "learning mode". Maybe the throttling period is exactly that. Make it a smoothly rising function that is driven by quality criteria that is communicated clearly and effectively. As long as you develop your site you get flags to guide you into compliance. This, to me at least, makes too much sense.

thenomad 14y ago
Yes, yes, yes, this. And the thing is, Google aren't losing free users or pennies with this crap. I know of one SINGLE case where Google's silly Adsense banning policies lost the Big G 6 figures a year - because they couldn't be bothered to have a human get in touch and just auto-banned. As I've mentioned elsewhere, they've dropped low 5 figures a year by disabling my Adsense account with no clear explanation why. I really, really cannot see what the business case here is. Can anyone enlighten me?

huyvun 14y ago

I run a moderately successful chat site , and have been utilizing Adsense for almost 5 years, with an average revenue of around $8000/month. For no apparent reason our site was removed from Adsense.. Apparently Google has recently purchased Meebo, and as a result have been shutting down and have added 'no chat sites' to their policy..