3 ms·

If software engineering is not special and can be done by anyone, so can any other role in a business. So it follows that all American roles will be offshored e

If software engineering is not special and can be done by anyone, so can any other role in a business. So it follows that all American roles will be offshored eventually, including ownership of the company itself - or American businesses will be universally out competed.

nradov 1y ago
Perhaps someday. But for now the USA has broader, deeper, and more sophisticated capital markets than every other country and economic bloc. This is one of the key reasons why most of the largest and fastest growing tech companies are still largely owned and located here.
trenchpilgrim 1y ago
> If software engineering is not special and can be done by anyone, so can any other role in a business. Indeed, however other business roles have a significant physical presence or face to face component. Sales & marketing, legal, HR, and significant parts of operations and admin have physical presence requirements in most businesses. I would expect finance/accounting to be vulnerable to offshoring, though.
- alfiedotwtf 1y ago
  Accounting and bookkeeping already is
- com2kid 1y ago
  If all the workers are off shore, no need to keep HR state side. If all the high earners are off shore, may as well sell to them with an off shore sales team. Don't need local marketers if the market isn't local anymore.
  - trenchpilgrim 1y ago
    > If all the workers are off shore I forget that HN forgets that many companies don't sell software yet have SWE teams.
    - com2kid 1y ago
      Any company not selling software for $$$ is hopefully not paying bay area salaries for their engineering team. Mid west engineering teams are low six figure or even less. The cost savings from outsourcing a team of people earning 90k is meh compared to a team earning 300k.
      - trenchpilgrim 1y ago
        You'd be surprised. I live in a state most SFers consider the middle of nowhere, and my friends and I make more in absolute terms than most SF companies offer (excepting the top tier). 90k is not much more than entry level IT pay here, even new grads make more. Of course, you can't just work on CRUD apps or mobile apps, you have to build up domain knowledge of the business.
        com2kid 1y ago
        Surprising! Whenever recruiters have gotten confused and sent me non-costal job listings the salaries have always been very low (e.g. 140k for a principal level).
        trenchpilgrim 1y ago
        Yeah, we make quite a bit more than that even at IC level. The best jobs are typically not send out for recruiters - people check their networks first, and only go to a recruiter if nobody in their network is available.
- krackers 1y ago
  >finance/accounting to be vulnerable Aren't there certifications and stuff? I'd think that from a regulatory and legal compliance perspective it'd be better to have Americans handling the books. Say someone turns out to be cooking the books, if that person is halfway across the world good luck prosecuting them (unless your company is wealthy enough to the point where you can mobilize law enforcement to do your bidding)
  - trenchpilgrim 1y ago
    You only need one person stateside to review and sign off on the work and that person can be outsourced to an accounting firm.
fullshark 1y ago
> If software engineering is not special and can be done by anyone, so can any other role in a business. What's the logic here other than "coders are the top tier of the labor market" arrogance?
tehjoker 1y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendency_of_the_rate_of_profit_to_fall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendency_of_the_rate_of_profit...
pizlonator 1y ago
I think other business roles have been offshored for a long time now, and software engineering is relatively late to that party
FpUser 1y ago
>"If software engineering is not special" Correction - "The US / Canada software" engineering. Otherwise people from many other countries are just as good while charging way less.

nradov 1y ago

Perhaps someday. But for now the USA has broader, deeper, and more sophisticated capital markets than every other country and economic bloc. This is one of the key reasons why most of the largest and fastest growing tech companies are still largely owned and located here.

trenchpilgrim 1y ago

> If software engineering is not special and can be done by anyone, so can any other role in a business. Indeed, however other business roles have a significant physical presence or face to face component. Sales & marketing, legal, HR, and significant parts of operations and admin have physical presence requirements in most businesses. I would expect finance/accounting to be vulnerable to offshoring, though.

alfiedotwtf 1y ago
Accounting and bookkeeping already is
com2kid 1y ago
If all the workers are off shore, no need to keep HR state side. If all the high earners are off shore, may as well sell to them with an off shore sales team. Don't need local marketers if the market isn't local anymore.
- trenchpilgrim 1y ago
  > If all the workers are off shore I forget that HN forgets that many companies don't sell software yet have SWE teams.
  - com2kid 1y ago
    Any company not selling software for $$$ is hopefully not paying bay area salaries for their engineering team. Mid west engineering teams are low six figure or even less. The cost savings from outsourcing a team of people earning 90k is meh compared to a team earning 300k.
    - trenchpilgrim 1y ago
      You'd be surprised. I live in a state most SFers consider the middle of nowhere, and my friends and I make more in absolute terms than most SF companies offer (excepting the top tier). 90k is not much more than entry level IT pay here, even new grads make more. Of course, you can't just work on CRUD apps or mobile apps, you have to build up domain knowledge of the business.
      - com2kid 1y ago
        Surprising! Whenever recruiters have gotten confused and sent me non-costal job listings the salaries have always been very low (e.g. 140k for a principal level).
        trenchpilgrim 1y ago
        Yeah, we make quite a bit more than that even at IC level. The best jobs are typically not send out for recruiters - people check their networks first, and only go to a recruiter if nobody in their network is available.
krackers 1y ago
>finance/accounting to be vulnerable Aren't there certifications and stuff? I'd think that from a regulatory and legal compliance perspective it'd be better to have Americans handling the books. Say someone turns out to be cooking the books, if that person is halfway across the world good luck prosecuting them (unless your company is wealthy enough to the point where you can mobilize law enforcement to do your bidding)
- trenchpilgrim 1y ago
  You only need one person stateside to review and sign off on the work and that person can be outsourced to an accounting firm.

fullshark 1y ago

> If software engineering is not special and can be done by anyone, so can any other role in a business. What's the logic here other than "coders are the top tier of the labor market" arrogance?

tehjoker 1y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendency_of_the_rate_of_profit_to_fall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendency_of_the_rate_of_profit...

pizlonator 1y ago

I think other business roles have been offshored for a long time now, and software engineering is relatively late to that party

FpUser 1y ago

>"If software engineering is not special" Correction - "The US / Canada software" engineering. Otherwise people from many other countries are just as good while charging way less.