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Not defending anyone, but by that logic, you shouldn’t be using any Chinese models either.
by kburman 11mo ago
Not defending anyone, but by that logic, you shouldn’t be using any Chinese models either.
- wewtyflakes 11mo agoYes, and do you believe they are?
- snthpy 11mo agoWhy is that? Does Chinese company really equal Chinese government?
- retinaros 11mo agolol. is that really a question? even for american companies look who's at the board of those companies...
- snthpy 11mo agoFair enough. I'm just sick of the reflexive anti-Chinese hysteria. I wouldn't want to live there personally and condemn the human rights abuses as much as the next guy. However in international politics it's clear who the two largest terrorist regimes have been over the last fifty years and yet they're still somehow held up as the good guys.
- legacynl 11mo agoBasically yes. China doesn't have a democracy, and it's government isn't bound by it's laws. If CCP thinks deepseek or any other product/tech can be a beneficial to Chinese strategy they will come knocking, and there's no denying whatever they demand. It can be backdooring, data harvesting, etc, there's really no saying how far they might go.
- free_bip 11mo agoMaybe if you're using their site directly, but what about the open models?
- Yoric 11mo agoWell, not using the site probably means that you're avoiding the mini-LLMs powdered before and after the main LLM to provide filters (including some layers of censorship) and the system prompt. So I guess it depends on how deep the bias sits. And that is something that may vary with time. Grok has been a good example of this, with the bias initially being introduced as system prompts, then apparently moved to synthetic data used to train the further generations of Grok.
- norman784 11mo agoThe same could be said of any LLM offered by either Chinese, European, US, etc.
- snthpy 11mo agoOk, good points. Thanks
- sureglymop 11mo agoOn the other hand at least you can self host their models. My university now has an inference cluster for students and faculty to use open source models.
- nurettin 11mo agoProbably, as much as US company equals US government.
- alpineman 11mo agoAt least the Chinese models are open source, so you don't need to send money to the Chinese government to use them (unlike Grok 4, where you need to send money to Elon Musk)
- kburman 11mo ago“Open source” doesn’t mean “independent.” Most of those labs are state-linked and operate under laws that require compliance with party policy. The CCP plays a long game, they want dependency, not donations. Once enough people adopt their stack, they’ll set the governance norms and compliance rules around it. It’s not paranoia, it’s policy. Go read their New Generation AI Development Plan, they’ve been explicit about it since 2017.
- Yoric 11mo agoI agree with you. However, open weights (please let's not call these "open source", they are essentially binary blobs) are easier to fine-tune.
- roman_soldier 11mo ago[flagged]
- TheOtherHobbes 11mo agoThat's because they don't have links to far right organisations around the world, they aren't running a social media site that aggressively promotes hate speech, they're not attempting to foment civil war in countries like the UK, and they don't say rambling grandiose crazy shit about colonising Mars or having self-driving cars real soon now which is clearly insane, makes no sense to anyone rational, and has a long record of being exaggerated and wrong. None of this is hyperbole. All of it is historically documented.
- littlestymaar 11mo agoTrue, though the the position of the CCP on Falun gong or Tiananmen square protests are much less likely to impact the life of a westerner than those of Elon.
- NaomiLehman 11mo agoor American, using that logic
- curiousgal 11mo agoIf I had to pick between a Chinese model and an American model based on the country's politics it would be China every time.
- jasonsb 11mo ago[flagged]
- XorNot 11mo agoI mean I don't, so...what's your point?