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The sooner things become intolerably broken in the U.S. the better off I think the rest of the world is. The U.S. kind of scares me right now. So much power, wi

The sooner things become intolerably broken in the U.S. the better off I think the rest of the world is. The U.S. kind of scares me right now. So much power, wielded by deeply incompetent, broken, and evil people. And those who aren't those things are demonstrably too weak to do anything about it. I have a sense that things will only improve once they hit an intolerable low. And the longer it takes for that to happen, the more normalized it will become for all of those people. Basically: I really hope the current regime boils the water too fast.

slg 1y ago
I can't deny that and maybe would even agree with that as an abstract theory, but I just can't stomach the amount of misery and death that would come along with this to ever use a word like "hope" to describe that outcome.
- rhetocj23 1y ago
  [dead]
  - slg 1y ago
    I don't think this line of thinking has any merit. Genocides have happened before and yet modern genocides still make me sad for humanity and I wish we did a better job preventing them.
    - rhetocj23 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - slg 1y ago
        >people like you post and talk about it but take no real action. Jumping to this type of insult based purely on your own fabricated narrative about me does nothing but further justify my last comment calling out your worldview.
      - tomhow 1y ago
        > Boo hoo they make you sad We've banned this account for repeatedly posting abusive comments and ignoring our requests to stop. If you don't want to be banned, you can email us at hn@ycombinator.com and demonstrate a sincere commitment to observing the guidelines and using the site as intended.
- mathgeek 1y ago
  I don’t know if it’s reasonable or not to wish that, as an analogy, the German people had started a true civil war with the Nazis when they seized power. I can see how folks would wonder though.
  - actionfromafar 1y ago
    Germany was not the hub of the world back then. Very different situations.
    - mathgeek 1y ago
      Yes, that is what an analogy is... > A similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar. A comparison based on such similarity.
sebastiennight 1y ago
A major part of the plot of The Every[0] is one protagonist's belief, akin to yours, that precipitating things to their worst outcome could be the fastest way to snap public opinion back to sanity. I don't want to spoil the suspense, but I'll say that I do see the logic in hoping that a quick fire would call everyone's attention to the fire hazard. What you're failing to ask here is "What could possibly go wrong with this plan?" [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Every https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Every
- toomuchtodo 1y ago
  The house is already on fire. The choices are to allow it to burn down and rebuild, taking the arsonists with it, or attempting to slow them down while the fire continues to burn and their supporters cheer them on. American Democracy appears to be the same as second generation wealth: unappreciated until gone. Make Functional Governance Great Again. I wish it were not so.
  - techblueberry 1y ago
    Hahahahahahahhaa the arsonists aren’t going down with it, the arsonists are on mansions in a private island watching it go down. The idea that the people in power will _lose_ power as a result of widespread unrest is bananas. The only people watching the house burn are those with an insurance policy out on it.
    - toomuchtodo 1y ago
      The supporters are the people who keep voting Republican while Republicans (the arsonists) are stripping them of their SNAP benefits and ACA subsidies, while also dismantling the federal government out of ideology. The wealthy might influence (they spent over $40M to influence the NYC mayor election and still lost, for example), but the voters are the root cause.
      - Tadpole9181 1y ago
        It's quite literally a cult now. It doesn't matter if the house burns down, they'd still rather die in the fire than let woke liberals "win". If the house burns down, we'll be both poor and surrounded (and led) by neo-Nazis.
wredcoll 1y ago
This is, uh, not usually how these things work out, historically speaking. A desperate country with an extremely strong military is not a great situation for anyone.
- idle_zealot 1y ago
  The hope is presumably that the water boils fast enough to prompt electoral action before this regime eliminates voting rights and inevitably embroils itself in war to distract from its failings at home.
  - morkalork 1y ago
    I suppose we'll find out in the next 361 days?
crikeykangaroo 1y ago
I completely agree. It's a good thing we're in a multipolar world now. The US (and its vassal states) have ruled terribly and the world suffered much over it. Sadly, there is still a lot of propaganda that needs to go away. A great world leader would spread genuine peace. Not corrupt other countries, start wars and shed blood. The USA has failed to even keep its own citizens safe and secure. All I worry about is that they will drag a lot of other countries with them while they are falling.
- noir_lord 1y ago
  Less and less likely they’ll drag others down, the first trump presidency was a warning, it’s gonna suck in the rest of the western world but we’ll survive.
- actionfromafar 1y ago
  So how can you completely agree if even you worry? I worry more. I am certain, for all bad things the US did, the multipolar world will be much much worse. You think the other power players are better? No way.
- brokencode 1y ago
  The US hasn't been perfect, but you can hardly say we've ruled the world terribly. Because who has ever ruled it better? We helped Europe and Asia rebuild after WWII instead of conquering them. To the extent that our previous enemies in Germany and Japan now have some of the strongest economies in the world. There have certainly been wars, often with dubious justification or horrific results, but good luck finding any superpower in history that hasn't gotten into bad wars. Unlike the US, most of the time those other superpowers used war for territorial expansion, like Russia is doing in Ukraine today. You can dream of your utopian world order all you want, but at some point you have to judge the US against the alternative instead of the almighty.
  - geon 1y ago
    > but you can hardly say we've ruled the world terribly. "Terribly" is definitely a fair assessment. > who has ever ruled it better? Blatant whataboutism. > instead of conquering them "I protected them in so many ways, cared for them as if they were my own children. But to this day, is there a single statue of me on Bajor?"
api 1y ago
Historically low points are when very bad regimes seize full control.
chasil 1y ago
Europe has certainly had its share of deeply incompetent, broken, and evil people. So, so many. Such profound impact. I think any country will see this, despite all the wishing in the world.

slg 1y ago

I can't deny that and maybe would even agree with that as an abstract theory, but I just can't stomach the amount of misery and death that would come along with this to ever use a word like "hope" to describe that outcome.

rhetocj23 1y ago
[dead]
- slg 1y ago
  I don't think this line of thinking has any merit. Genocides have happened before and yet modern genocides still make me sad for humanity and I wish we did a better job preventing them.
  - rhetocj23 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - slg 1y ago
      >people like you post and talk about it but take no real action. Jumping to this type of insult based purely on your own fabricated narrative about me does nothing but further justify my last comment calling out your worldview.
    - tomhow 1y ago
      > Boo hoo they make you sad We've banned this account for repeatedly posting abusive comments and ignoring our requests to stop. If you don't want to be banned, you can email us at hn@ycombinator.com and demonstrate a sincere commitment to observing the guidelines and using the site as intended.
mathgeek 1y ago
I don’t know if it’s reasonable or not to wish that, as an analogy, the German people had started a true civil war with the Nazis when they seized power. I can see how folks would wonder though.
- actionfromafar 1y ago
  Germany was not the hub of the world back then. Very different situations.
  - mathgeek 1y ago
    Yes, that is what an analogy is... > A similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar. A comparison based on such similarity.

sebastiennight 1y ago

A major part of the plot of The Every[0] is one protagonist's belief, akin to yours, that precipitating things to their worst outcome could be the fastest way to snap public opinion back to sanity. I don't want to spoil the suspense, but I'll say that I do see the logic in hoping that a quick fire would call everyone's attention to the fire hazard. What you're failing to ask here is "What could possibly go wrong with this plan?" [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Every https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Every

toomuchtodo 1y ago
The house is already on fire. The choices are to allow it to burn down and rebuild, taking the arsonists with it, or attempting to slow them down while the fire continues to burn and their supporters cheer them on. American Democracy appears to be the same as second generation wealth: unappreciated until gone. Make Functional Governance Great Again. I wish it were not so.
- techblueberry 1y ago
  Hahahahahahahhaa the arsonists aren’t going down with it, the arsonists are on mansions in a private island watching it go down. The idea that the people in power will _lose_ power as a result of widespread unrest is bananas. The only people watching the house burn are those with an insurance policy out on it.
  - toomuchtodo 1y ago
    The supporters are the people who keep voting Republican while Republicans (the arsonists) are stripping them of their SNAP benefits and ACA subsidies, while also dismantling the federal government out of ideology. The wealthy might influence (they spent over $40M to influence the NYC mayor election and still lost, for example), but the voters are the root cause.
    - Tadpole9181 1y ago
      It's quite literally a cult now. It doesn't matter if the house burns down, they'd still rather die in the fire than let woke liberals "win". If the house burns down, we'll be both poor and surrounded (and led) by neo-Nazis.

wredcoll 1y ago

This is, uh, not usually how these things work out, historically speaking. A desperate country with an extremely strong military is not a great situation for anyone.

idle_zealot 1y ago
The hope is presumably that the water boils fast enough to prompt electoral action before this regime eliminates voting rights and inevitably embroils itself in war to distract from its failings at home.
- morkalork 1y ago
  I suppose we'll find out in the next 361 days?

crikeykangaroo 1y ago

I completely agree. It's a good thing we're in a multipolar world now. The US (and its vassal states) have ruled terribly and the world suffered much over it. Sadly, there is still a lot of propaganda that needs to go away. A great world leader would spread genuine peace. Not corrupt other countries, start wars and shed blood. The USA has failed to even keep its own citizens safe and secure. All I worry about is that they will drag a lot of other countries with them while they are falling.

noir_lord 1y ago
Less and less likely they’ll drag others down, the first trump presidency was a warning, it’s gonna suck in the rest of the western world but we’ll survive.
actionfromafar 1y ago
So how can you completely agree if even you worry? I worry more. I am certain, for all bad things the US did, the multipolar world will be much much worse. You think the other power players are better? No way.
brokencode 1y ago
The US hasn't been perfect, but you can hardly say we've ruled the world terribly. Because who has ever ruled it better? We helped Europe and Asia rebuild after WWII instead of conquering them. To the extent that our previous enemies in Germany and Japan now have some of the strongest economies in the world. There have certainly been wars, often with dubious justification or horrific results, but good luck finding any superpower in history that hasn't gotten into bad wars. Unlike the US, most of the time those other superpowers used war for territorial expansion, like Russia is doing in Ukraine today. You can dream of your utopian world order all you want, but at some point you have to judge the US against the alternative instead of the almighty.
- geon 1y ago
  > but you can hardly say we've ruled the world terribly. "Terribly" is definitely a fair assessment. > who has ever ruled it better? Blatant whataboutism. > instead of conquering them "I protected them in so many ways, cared for them as if they were my own children. But to this day, is there a single statue of me on Bajor?"

api 1y ago

Historically low points are when very bad regimes seize full control.

chasil 1y ago

Europe has certainly had its share of deeply incompetent, broken, and evil people. So, so many. Such profound impact. I think any country will see this, despite all the wishing in the world.