5 ms·

I live in Oak Park, just outside Chicago (and adjacent to Broadview, where the major regional ICE detention center is). We have daily ICE sitings, and approxim

I live in Oak Park, just outside Chicago (and adjacent to Broadview, where the major regional ICE detention center is). We have daily ICE sitings, and approximately every-other-day ICE detentions or arrests. It's a constant presence. What it means psychologically depends. If you're someone who could visually be mistaken (perhaps in bad faith) for a Latino, it's a very big problem. ICE/DHS routinely stops people based on their visual appearance, it takes 15 minutes for them to work out that you're present legally, and throughout the whole thing you have hanging over you that they might just decide to detain you at Broadview anyways, which is a nightmare even assuming your eventual release. If you're not someone like that --- at least where I live --- you can mostly ignore what's happening, if that's what you want to do. People are basically living their lives. About the closest an ordinary white/Black family here gets to direct disruption is needing to make special arrangements with their landscaping people.

fujigawa 1y ago
[flagged]
- tptacek 1y ago
  None of this has anything whatsoever to do with whether "Pedro" will be there to shovel their driveway. Nobody cares about that. We all live with 100% certainty that somebody will exchange dollars for snow shoveling. The reason you hear about landscapers right now is that ICE is directly targeting them. If you're ICE, looking to meet a detention quota from whatever quadrant Oak Park is in, the easiest way to do that is cruise down the street and stop anybody on a riding mower.
  - fujigawa 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - tptacek 1y ago
      I'm engaging only with your false claim that concerns about ICE are motivated by landscaping logistics, which is risible and pointlessly inflammatory.
    - kasey_junk 1y ago
      Your contention is that when ICE goes to the parking lot of a Home Depot and rounds up day laborers its because they had specific intelligence and an arrest warrant for one of them?
    - speff 1y ago
      Are you claiming that the detainees - assumedly primarily illegal immigrants - are taking part in the voting process and that's why the governor is "grandstanding"? That's the story I hear from certain folks and as far as I can tell, it has no merit. I'd be interested in any actual stats here.
      - convolvatron 1y ago
        Michigan found approximately 12 non-citizen voters after going through their rolls. Texas claimed to have found nearly 1000, but opened 100 investigations. those kinds of numbers should make you understand why we have to give up on this whole constitution thing.
      - fujigawa 1y ago
        One of the more egregious stories that made national news and captured the zeitgeist of this situation was the alleged illegal immigrant that was working as a sworn police officer in suburban Chicago: https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-arrests-illegal-alien-serving-local-police-officer-suburban-chicago https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-arrests-illegal-alien-... So given that this was allowed to happen, you want me to believe it's impossible for an illegal immigrant to cast a vote in an election? In Chicago? Where the dead people vote? https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/2-investigators-chicago-voters-cast-ballots-from-beyond-the-grave/ https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/2-investigators-chicago... > In all, the analysis showed 119 dead people have voted a total of 229 times in Chicago in the last decade.
        tptacek 1y ago
        Yeah? What about being a sworn police officer is it that you think qualifies you to vote? Have you ever worked a shift as an EJ? Do you know how the Illinois/Cook County voting system works?
        fujigawa 1y ago
        Is it your contention that if someone was an illegal immigrant as alleged, and in doing so able to pass a local government background check without arousing suspicion, someone wouldn't be able to outsmart some 80 year old election judge who is volunteering her time that would otherwise be spent watching reruns of Judge Judy? The system is not as airtight as you purport it to be.
    - thelastgallon 1y ago
      > Something like > 30% of ICE agents and > 50% of CBP officers are Latino themselves. It's incongruent with the narrative being presented. Nearly 100% of the people enslaving India were Indians, employed by British Easy India Company. Its just 3,000 british people from Great Britian with bad teeth that enslaved an entire country for ~200 years. People will do ANYTHING for a paycheck. The ethnicity of those employed means jackshit.
    - drewbug01 1y ago
      > But this notion that roving bands of assassins are driving down the street looking for browns is likely an exaggeration (made worse by misinformation on social media). Assassins? Nobody said that. But my friend I can assure you they are, in fact, driving down the street and taking people who “look suspicious.” (They also are doing more targeted things - both are true.)
  - wombatpm 1y ago
    So no warrant, no probable cause beyond looking Latino. So it seems we have replaced stopping people for driving while black with stopping people for working while brown.
- ocdtrekkie 1y ago
  Or people actually like and care about the people they transact with whether their grass gets mowed next week or not. Yeah, for some well off suburban folks, their closest impact might be someone who works for them. Doesn't mean they don't care. (And frankly, I'd rather my money goes to someone who really needs the money, not a corporate service.)
- cafard 1y ago
  I am an angry old not-quite suburban white male. My household employs no servants. We mow our own lawn, we rake our own leaves. I know a fair number of people who are US born and have what appears to be a Central American complexion. I imagine much of the HN readership can get by without income for the time it can take a citizen, or someone with perfectly legitimate immigration status, to establish his or her bona fides to ICE. Not everybody who is getting in can. And have you looked into the big employers, not Harriet Homeowner, but the meat packing plants, to see how carefully they examine documents? Hell, have you examined the Trump organization's record?
  - fujigawa 1y ago
    > And have you looked into the big employers, not Harriet Homeowner, but the meat packing plants, to see how carefully they examine documents? The larger an employer's size, the more likely they are to do business with the federal government, which mandates the use of E-Verify.
    - cafard 1y ago
      Cool. https://www.fastcompany.com/91181711/how-the-meatpacking-industry-exemplifies-the-challenges-of-american-workers https://www.fastcompany.com/91181711/how-the-meatpacking-ind...
Isamu 1y ago
A big issue for people detained, even if they are citizens, is that it can take some time to be released, and when released you may not get your belongings back. That includes passport, phone, keys, cash, jewelry. The advice I am hearing is to avoid carrying around much if you are at risk.

fujigawa 1y ago

[flagged]

tptacek 1y ago
None of this has anything whatsoever to do with whether "Pedro" will be there to shovel their driveway. Nobody cares about that. We all live with 100% certainty that somebody will exchange dollars for snow shoveling. The reason you hear about landscapers right now is that ICE is directly targeting them. If you're ICE, looking to meet a detention quota from whatever quadrant Oak Park is in, the easiest way to do that is cruise down the street and stop anybody on a riding mower.
- fujigawa 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - tptacek 1y ago
    I'm engaging only with your false claim that concerns about ICE are motivated by landscaping logistics, which is risible and pointlessly inflammatory.
  - kasey_junk 1y ago
    Your contention is that when ICE goes to the parking lot of a Home Depot and rounds up day laborers its because they had specific intelligence and an arrest warrant for one of them?
  - speff 1y ago
    Are you claiming that the detainees - assumedly primarily illegal immigrants - are taking part in the voting process and that's why the governor is "grandstanding"? That's the story I hear from certain folks and as far as I can tell, it has no merit. I'd be interested in any actual stats here.
    - convolvatron 1y ago
      Michigan found approximately 12 non-citizen voters after going through their rolls. Texas claimed to have found nearly 1000, but opened 100 investigations. those kinds of numbers should make you understand why we have to give up on this whole constitution thing.
    - fujigawa 1y ago
      One of the more egregious stories that made national news and captured the zeitgeist of this situation was the alleged illegal immigrant that was working as a sworn police officer in suburban Chicago: https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-arrests-illegal-alien-serving-local-police-officer-suburban-chicago https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-arrests-illegal-alien-... So given that this was allowed to happen, you want me to believe it's impossible for an illegal immigrant to cast a vote in an election? In Chicago? Where the dead people vote? https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/2-investigators-chicago-voters-cast-ballots-from-beyond-the-grave/ https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/2-investigators-chicago... > In all, the analysis showed 119 dead people have voted a total of 229 times in Chicago in the last decade.
      - tptacek 1y ago
        Yeah? What about being a sworn police officer is it that you think qualifies you to vote? Have you ever worked a shift as an EJ? Do you know how the Illinois/Cook County voting system works?
        fujigawa 1y ago
        Is it your contention that if someone was an illegal immigrant as alleged, and in doing so able to pass a local government background check without arousing suspicion, someone wouldn't be able to outsmart some 80 year old election judge who is volunteering her time that would otherwise be spent watching reruns of Judge Judy? The system is not as airtight as you purport it to be.
  - thelastgallon 1y ago
    > Something like > 30% of ICE agents and > 50% of CBP officers are Latino themselves. It's incongruent with the narrative being presented. Nearly 100% of the people enslaving India were Indians, employed by British Easy India Company. Its just 3,000 british people from Great Britian with bad teeth that enslaved an entire country for ~200 years. People will do ANYTHING for a paycheck. The ethnicity of those employed means jackshit.
  - drewbug01 1y ago
    > But this notion that roving bands of assassins are driving down the street looking for browns is likely an exaggeration (made worse by misinformation on social media). Assassins? Nobody said that. But my friend I can assure you they are, in fact, driving down the street and taking people who “look suspicious.” (They also are doing more targeted things - both are true.)
- wombatpm 1y ago
  So no warrant, no probable cause beyond looking Latino. So it seems we have replaced stopping people for driving while black with stopping people for working while brown.
ocdtrekkie 1y ago
Or people actually like and care about the people they transact with whether their grass gets mowed next week or not. Yeah, for some well off suburban folks, their closest impact might be someone who works for them. Doesn't mean they don't care. (And frankly, I'd rather my money goes to someone who really needs the money, not a corporate service.)
cafard 1y ago
I am an angry old not-quite suburban white male. My household employs no servants. We mow our own lawn, we rake our own leaves. I know a fair number of people who are US born and have what appears to be a Central American complexion. I imagine much of the HN readership can get by without income for the time it can take a citizen, or someone with perfectly legitimate immigration status, to establish his or her bona fides to ICE. Not everybody who is getting in can. And have you looked into the big employers, not Harriet Homeowner, but the meat packing plants, to see how carefully they examine documents? Hell, have you examined the Trump organization's record?
- fujigawa 1y ago
  > And have you looked into the big employers, not Harriet Homeowner, but the meat packing plants, to see how carefully they examine documents? The larger an employer's size, the more likely they are to do business with the federal government, which mandates the use of E-Verify.
  - cafard 1y ago
    Cool. https://www.fastcompany.com/91181711/how-the-meatpacking-industry-exemplifies-the-challenges-of-american-workers https://www.fastcompany.com/91181711/how-the-meatpacking-ind...

Isamu 1y ago

A big issue for people detained, even if they are citizens, is that it can take some time to be released, and when released you may not get your belongings back. That includes passport, phone, keys, cash, jewelry. The advice I am hearing is to avoid carrying around much if you are at risk.